But you guys want to limit God to time in that it took 24 hours, or 1000 years to bring something into being.
I agree, God didnt need any allotment of time at all. He could have created it within any time frame or even in less than an instant (if there is such a measurement)A God who needed 24 hours, or 1000 years to bring into being the very things of which make this world and establish the boundries of everything?!?
Never said that, never will, and never said anything that could possibly lead anyone to that conclusion.And then your gonna have the gaw to say that God needed 24 hours or 6000 years to create all that is?
Who is arguing? I just told you why I cared. Also sorry, but on this matter you are not in a position to tell me where I cannot 'argue' after making such unfounded assumptions about what I believe.Please read the rules for the Fundy area. You are not a Fundamentalist, therefore, you should not be arguing in the general area.
I didn't find fault with your reasoningSince everybody is finding fault with my reasoning, I shall not venture an opinion in this thread again.
The 24hr. day is defined by the Earth's relationship to the Sun. But according to Genesis 1:14-19, for the first 3 days of creation, there was no Sun. God didn't make the Sun until the 4th day.So what does this mean? Though time can fluctuate, it is only under certain circumstances. Such circumstances are not in the Genesis record but simply say day. So there is no reason to speculate beyond the literal meaning of a day which is a 24 hour period when Genesis was eventually written. See, it wasnt written at the time of creation, but written much later when a 24 hour day had long been established. Usually, if things are to be taken in allegory, the bible makes certain to mention such as to be taken that way (always use context). But in the case of the genesis account, there is no such mention to not take it literally as it is written.
The 24hr. day is defined by the Earth's relationship to the Sun. But according to Genesis 1:14-19, for the first 3 days of creation, there was no Sun. God didn't make the Sun until the 4th day.
The 24hr. day is defined by the Earth's relationship to the Sun. But according to Genesis 1:14-19, for the first 3 days of creation, there was no Sun. God didn't make the Sun until the 4th day.
According to R.C. Sproul's notes in my Reformation Study Bible, the Hebrew word used for "day" in the Creation story is yom, which may refer to a literal day, or to extended periods of time, even epochs. So taking it literally as it is written in Hebrew, it could be either way.
I'm not sure whose theory is correct, nor do I greatly care, since the important thing is that God made everything. How or when He did it is something we'll learn for sure later in our resurrected, glorified bodies. But if I had to place a bet on it, I'd say OEC, the Framework Hypothesis variant.
As I explained, the perception of a day was written after the event. When Genesis was written, it was well known how long a day was. A day is a day, just as it is today more or less. Even if you were on Mars, and you were reading the bible, a day would still be roughly a 24 hour period because that is the perception in which it was written. Whether or not the sun exists, still the Genesis account was written after the event and explained in a common way that all humans can identify with and understand, as it happened. If the first day were two days or a million days, it would say so.
The bible was written for us to understand. Its not some spiritualized coded document that we need to read in some old obscure language and after decades of specialized training to understand by a handful of people in the world amazingly with all the power over the Church. Even the NT was written in a common language of Greek invented by Alexander the Great so that it (language) may be accessible by the masses, not the few. And then carried the world over upon the roads that the Romans made of which God appoints the kings to create such things as languages and roads.
This whole thing about the bible not being plainly written for us to understand is Catholic tradition which many protestant churches have simply not fully broken away from. Due to this, things like this crop up, were people just dont believe the plain word of the bible but read all sorts of things into it. Things like this cause confusion giving credence to hair brained ideas like evolution or multiverses. Because sadly, when you reeeeeealy think about it some day, maybe, it does cause problems with such things as sin, death and salvation etc. But for those that are saved anyway, maybe lucky for them ignorance truly is bliss at times. But we are not really called to ignorance, are we?..
Hmm? yes morning and evening was the first day. Not sure what you are asking, maybe you meant to direct your question (?) to the guy I was replying to?So in the first "day" was there "evening, and there was morning " as stated in Genesis 1:5 before the sun ?
I totally agree with this - they didn't have advanced technology when the bible was written - in fact, they had no technology.As I explained, the perception of a day was written after the event. When Genesis was written, it was well known how long a day was. A day is a day, just as it is today more or less. Even if you were on Mars, and you were reading the bible, a day would still be roughly a 24 hour period because that is the perception in which it was written. Whether or not the sun exists, still the Genesis account was written after the event and explained in a common way that all humans can identify with and understand, as it happened. If the first day were two days or a million days, it would say so.
The bible was written for us to understand. Its not some spiritualized coded document that we need to read in some old obscure language and after decades of specialized training to understand by a handful of people in the world amazingly with all the power over the Church. Even the NT was written in a common language of Greek invented by Alexander the Great so that it (language) may be accessible by the masses, not the few. And then carried the world over upon the roads that the Romans made of which God appoints the kings to create such things as languages and roads.
This whole thing about the bible not being plainly written for us to understand is Catholic tradition which many protestant churches have simply not fully broken away from. Due to this, things like this crop up, were people just dont believe the plain word of the bible but read all sorts of things into it. Things like this cause confusion giving credence to hair brained ideas like evolution or multiverses. Because sadly, when you reeeeeealy think about it some day, maybe, it does cause problems with such things as sin, death and salvation etc. But for those that are saved anyway, maybe lucky for them ignorance truly is bliss at times. But we are not really called to ignorance, are we?..
That is all eisegesis.Lets take Gen.1:1-5 and look at this closely and objectively.
"In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness. And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day." -Gen. 1:1-5 (KJV)
Beginning in verse 1, we see that in the beginning was God. Now this is interesting in that no timeline whatsoever is given here. All we know for sure is that in the beginning of recorded time, God was already there.
In verse 2 we see that the earth was made and there was noting here, absolutely nothing but water and darkeness and chaos. And the Holy Spirit "moved" upon the face of the waters and brought clam to chaos.
Then God creates light. And that light is what separates from darkness.
Then in verse 4 we see that God separates the light day, and the darkness.
And finally in verse 5 we see that the light was called day, and the darkness night. And at the end of this, this was the very first day.
Now, some have pointed out one verse that Biblical Literalists use to justify the "young earth" creationism theory.
If this "theory" is true, then what we end up with is an earth that is only at the very oldest some 13,300 years old. (give or take a few years)
Now here me out first.
Each day of the creation equals 1000 years. Six days to make the creation = 6000 years. One day to rest = 7000 years. Now my Bible dates the writing of the Pentauch/Torah, the Law books to about 3500 BC. Add this to the creation years, this equals 10,500 years. 430 years between the Old and New Testament period, or about a half a day. Since the brith of Christ, we have some 2000 years, or two days, so what we are left with is some 13,333 years.
Now this is if take the Bible "Literally" at 1 day = 1000 years.
However, what we are left with is taking an allegory and appling it literally.
Now there is precidence for this in what James says in James 4:14:
"For what is your life? It is even a vapour, that appeareth for a little time, and then vanisheth away."
The best anology of this verse is to imagine lighting a match. Your birth is like when you first strike the match. It burns quickly as it lights up, but soon, it settles down to a steady burn and then evetually burns out. That is like what our lifetime looks like to GOd.
But, then again, we are trying to put allagories on God.
We use terms like "omnipotence" referring to God as "all powerful."
Who is to say that God could not have merely spoke the world into existance. And at the very milli-second He was finished speaking, it came into existance. This is certainly possible if we believe that God is "omnipotent."
Now just consider for a moment what I'm saying here.
Who is to say that the creation did not take place in 7 milli-seconds, or 7 seconds, 7 minutes, 7 hours, 7 days, 7 years, or even 7000 years?
All we know for sure is that when the earth was created, and all that followed, happened on the very first recorded day in history. However long that day was, we know what happened on that first "day."
I don't know how long that first day was, it is certainly possible that the very first day only lasted a second. It could have lasted only 24 hours. It could have lasted 1000 years, I don't know. Nobody does, but what we can know for sure is what happened on the very first day in recorded history.
As a side note, I want to interject this one thought.
So I choose Creationism over Evolutionism. That's my take.
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