Age of the earth?

[polishbeast]

Are there other fundamentalists out there like me that believe in the bible and believe the earth is around 6000 years old? Also how do you deal with it in todays society where people think you are stupid for thinking that? I guess being in a younger generation Ive got lots of people against these types of views. So what would be the best way for ignoring other people trying to convince me the earth is billions of years old? Thanks for any help.

 

[desmalia]

Are there other fundamentalists out there like me that believe in the bible and believe the earth is around 6000 years old? Also how do you deal with it in todays society where people think you are stupid for thinking that? I guess being in a younger generation Ive got lots of people against these types of views. So what would be the best way for ignoring other people trying to convince me the earth is billions of years old? Thanks for any help.

There are fundamentalists here who believe in young earth creation (like me), and there are fundamentalists here who believe in old earth creation. None of us believe in any form of macro evolution, of course, and none of us believe that Genesis is just a myth or allegory. I think it is important to research and study the issue for yourself instead of just ignoring what others say. The old earth belief has a lot of merit to it, so it's worth exploring too. I think this is one of those things that we have the joy of exploring, but will not have 100% certainty on until we are in Glory.

 

[Nadiine]

I believe more towards young earth creation too.

The problem as I see it is that I'm completely ignorant of science where this is concerned (as are lots of other people) - so hearing a young earth vs. old earth argument doesn't do much good when I have no knowledge of science to base anything on.

I'll probly never know for sure which it is and frankly I'm not real interested in knowing for sure which it is, only that God is Creator and it came to be when He set it in motion thru His spoken word which rules out evolution of any kind.

God said ________... and it was.

 

[-~Truth_N_Trust~-]

it can be hard Polishbeast, but it comes down to for me that my faith is in the God of the Bible - who has proven Himself Faithful - rather than in the shifting sands of scientific theory. This is not to say that science doesn't have it's place, is not interesting or is evil or anything like that. But, I'm not a scientist, so my faith has to be in either what other scientists say, or what God says.

There are some places where science and the Bible don't meet, there are a lot of places where they do meet. All you can do is look into both sides and know that when you stand with God, there will be emnity with the world - and meet it with a Christ-like Love.

 

[MatthewDiscipleofGod]

Are there other fundamentalists out there like me that believe in the bible and believe the earth is around 6000 years old? Also how do you deal with it in todays society where people think you are stupid for thinking that? I guess being in a younger generation Ive got lots of people against these types of views. So what would be the best way for ignoring other people trying to convince me the earth is billions of years old? Thanks for any help.

I believe the Earth is only thousands of years old. You will run into mockers. Some are not worth responding to because their ears are closed and their venomous mouths are wide open. For those willing to listen I show from the Bible that the Earth is only thousands of years old. I also show them from science that the Earth is only thousands of yearsold. ICR has done a lot of good scientific research for the science aspect. I have a powerpoint on my site for the Biblical aspect.

 

[FundamentalistJohn]

I believe the Earth is only thousands of years old. You will run into mockers. Some are not worth responding to because their ears are closed and their venomous mouths are wide open. For those willing to listen I show from the Bible that the Earth is only thousands of years old. I also show them from science that the Earth is only thousands of yearsold. ICR has done a lot of good scientific research for the science aspect. I have a powerpoint on my site for the Biblical aspect.

Give us a link I'd like to see it.

 

[FundamentalistJohn]

As I get older I tend to worry less about what the world thinks, and more about what my family thinks. My family knows that my faith is genuine thus even if they think I am out in left field they are loving and supportive.

As for the world, the only advice I can think of is to remember (which I struggle with myself) that we (at least most of us) were once in ignorance ourselves. I tend to stay away from such debates anymore simply because on this board anyway you will not find people debating the subject that are actually interested in learning but just spoiling for a fight. I'll be happy to witness to anyone, I'm not happy to debate with thos who have already become unteachable.

Welcome to CF and our little corner of it Fundamentalist Forum.

 

[pgp_protector]

The best way would be to provide Evidence that can't be disputed that shows that the Earth & Universe is young.

 

[Nadiine]

The best way would be to provide Evidence that can't be disputed that shows that the Earth & Universe is young.

Probably - but to science novices, both sides can have valid points or be bogus & a novice won't know which is true.

It's like with any profession that takes advanced skill & knowledge - opposing parties on the subject can be at odds yet you won't know which one is true or not; obviously both who know the science even disagree with the facts they claim to have... a novice is even more disadvantaged in sorting anything out.

 

[-~Truth_N_Trust~-]

^ exactly, to a novice it becomes a matter of where to put your faith.

 

[MatthewDiscipleofGod]

Give us a link I'd like to see it.

The links are in my original post but if the are not showing up for you here they are.

http://www.icr.org/research/index/researchp_papers/

http://www.issuesthatmatter.com/24hrs.html

 

[DeaconDean]

Lets take Gen.1:1-5 and look at this closely and objectively.

"In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness. And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day." -Gen. 1:1-5 (KJV)

Beginning in verse 1, we see that in the beginning was God. Now this is interesting in that no timeline whatsoever is given here. All we know for sure is that in the beginning of recorded time, God was already there.

In verse 2 we see that the earth was made and there was noting here, absolutely nothing but water and darkeness and chaos. And the Holy Spirit "moved" upon the face of the waters and brought clam to chaos.

Then God creates light. And that light is what separates from darkness.

Then in verse 4 we see that God separates the light day, and the darkness.

And finally in verse 5 we see that the light was called day, and the darkness night. And at the end of this, this was the very first day.

Now, some have pointed out one verse that Biblical Literalists use to justify the "young earth" creationism theory.

If this "theory" is true, then what we end up with is an earth that is only at the very oldest some 13,300 years old. (give or take a few years)

Now here me out first.

Each day of the creation equals 1000 years. Six days to make the creation = 6000 years. One day to rest = 7000 years. Now my Bible dates the writing of the Pentauch/Torah, the Law books to about 3500 BC. Add this to the creation years, this equals 10,500 years. 430 years between the Old and New Testament period, or about a half a day. Since the brith of Christ, we have some 2000 years, or two days, so what we are left with is some 13,333 years.

Now this is if take the Bible "Literally" at 1 day = 1000 years.

However, what we are left with is taking an allegory and appling it literally.

Now there is precidence for this in what James says in James 4:14:

"For what is your life? It is even a vapour, that appeareth for a little time, and then vanisheth away."

The best anology of this verse is to imagine lighting a match. Your birth is like when you first strike the match. It burns quickly as it lights up, but soon, it settles down to a steady burn and then evetually burns out. That is like what our lifetime looks like to GOd.

But, then again, we are trying to put allagories on God.

We use terms like "omnipotence" referring to God as "all powerful."

Who is to say that God could not have merely spoke the world into existance. And at the very milli-second He was finished speaking, it came into existance. This is certainly possible if we believe that God is "omnipotent."

Now just consider for a moment what I'm saying here.

I am not arguing against the "literal" 24 hour creation. If that is what you believe, fine. I'm not arguing against that.

I am not arguing against the "literal" 7000 year creation either. If that is what you believe, fine, I'm not arguing against that.

What I am arguing against is trying to place our understanding of "time" against God.

Time as we know it, was put here for our sakes, not His.

We learn this lesson on the "fourth day."

"And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:" -Gen. 1:14 (KJV)

Who is to say that the creation did not take place in 7 milli-seconds, or 7 seconds, 7 minutes, 7 hours, 7 days, 7 years, or even 7000 years?

All we know for sure is that when the earth was created, and all that followed, happened on the very first recorded day in history. However long that day was, we know what happened on that first "day."

I don't know how long that first day was, it is certainly possible that the very first day only lasted a second. It could have lasted only 24 hours. It could have lasted 1000 years, I don't know. Nobody does, but what we can know for sure is what happened on the very first day in recorded history.

As a side note, I want to interject this one thought.

Jesus is sitting on the right hand of the Father as we speak. He is in heaven. Scripture tells us that Jesus is:

"And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof." -Rev. 21:23 (KJV)

Jesus is the light of heaven. There is no day, there is no night.

In the timeline we know of, all the disciples died and went on to be with Jesus about 2000 years ago. But since Jesus is the light of heaven, and there is no day and no night as we know it, the disciples just arrived in heaven "TODAY!"

And if the good Lord tarries, we shall arrive in heaven "TODAY!"

Granted it will be just a little later in the day, but we will get to heaven "TODAY!"

Certainly this is worth an Amen!

Before time began, God was. "I am the Alpha" and when time ceases to exist, God will still be "I am the Omega."

When ever time began there was God, when time ends, there will be God.

Time has no meaning to God, time was put into place for our sakes.

So why must we limit God to our understanding of "time?"

And that is the point I'm trying to make here. As I said previously:

I am not arguing against the "literal" 24 hour creation. If that is what you believe, fine. I'm not arguing against that.

I am not arguing against the "literal" 7000 year creation either. If that is what you believe, fine, I'm not arguing against that.

What I am arguing against is trying to place our understanding of "time" against God.

Who is to say that the creation did not take place in 7 milli-seconds, or 7 seconds, 7 minutes, 7 hours, 7 days, 7 years, or even 7000 years?
God Bless

Till all are one.

 

[Nadiine]

Lets take Gen.1:1-5 and look at this closely and objectively.

"In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness. And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day." -Gen. 1:1-5 (KJV)

Beginning in verse 1, we see that in the beginning was God. Now this is interesting in that no timeline whatsoever is given here. All we know for sure is that in the beginning of recorded time, God was already there.

In verse 2 we see that the earth was made and there was noting here, absolutely nothing but water and darkeness and chaos. And the Holy Spirit "moved" upon the face of the waters and brought clam to chaos.

Then God creates light. And that light is what separates from darkness.

Then in verse 4 we see that God separates the light day, and the darkness.

And finally in verse 5 we see that the light was called day, and the darkness night. And at the end of this, this was the very first day.

Now, some have pointed out one verse that Biblical Literalists use to justify the "young earth" creationism theory.

If this "theory" is true, then what we end up with is an earth that is only at the very oldest some 13,300 years old. (give or take a few years)

Now here me out first.

Each day of the creation equals 1000 years. Six days to make the creation = 6000 years. One day to rest = 7000 years. Now my Bible dates the writing of the Pentauch/Torah, the Law books to about 3500 BC. Add this to the creation years, this equals 10,500 years. 430 years between the Old and New Testament period, or about a half a day. Since the brith of Christ, we have some 2000 years, or two days, so what we are left with is some 13,333 years.

Now this is if take the Bible "Literally" at 1 day = 1000 years.

However, what we are left with is taking an allegory and appling it literally.

Now there is precidence for this in what James says in James 4:14:

"For what is your life? It is even a vapour, that appeareth for a little time, and then vanisheth away."

The best anology of this verse is to imagine lighting a match. Your birth is like when you first strike the match. It burns quickly as it lights up, but soon, it settles down to a steady burn and then evetually burns out. That is like what our lifetime looks like to GOd.

But, then again, we are trying to put allagories on God.

We use terms like "omnipotence" referring to God as "all powerful."

Who is to say that God could not have merely spoke the world into existance. And at the very milli-second He was finished speaking, it came into existance. This is certainly possible if we believe that God is "omnipotent."

Now just consider for a moment what I'm saying here.

I am not arguing against the "literal" 24 hour creation. If that is what you believe, fine. I'm not arguing against that.

I am not arguing against the "literal" 7000 year creation either. If that is what you believe, fine, I'm not arguing against that.

What I am arguing against is trying to place our understanding of "time" against God.

Time as we know it, was put here for our sakes, not His.

We learn this lesson on the "fourth day."

"And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:" -Gen. 1:14 (KJV)

Who is to say that the creation did not take place in 7 milli-seconds, or 7 seconds, 7 minutes, 7 hours, 7 days, 7 years, or even 7000 years?

All we know for sure is that when the earth was created, and all that followed, happened on the very first recorded day in history. However long that day was, we know what happened on that first "day."

I don't know how long that first day was, it is certainly possible that the very first day only lasted a second. It could have lasted only 24 hours. It could have lasted 1000 years, I don't know. Nobody does, but what we can know for sure is what happened on the very first day in recorded history.

As a side note, I want to interject this one thought.

Jesus is sitting on the right hand of the Father as we speak. He is in heaven. Scripture tells us that Jesus is:

"And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof." -Rev. 21:23 (KJV)

Jesus is the light of heaven. There is no day, there is no night.

In the timeline we know of, all the disciples died and went on to be with Jesus about 2000 years ago. But since Jesus is the light of heaven, and there is no day and no night as we know it, the disciples just arrived in heaven "TODAY!"

And if the good Lord tarries, we shall arrive in heaven "TODAY!"

Granted it will be just a little later in the day, but we will get to heaven "TODAY!"

Certainly this is worth an Amen!

Before time began, God was. "I am the Alpha" and when time ceases to exist, God will still be "I am the Omega."

When ever time began there was God, when time ends, there will be God.

Time has no meaning to God, time was put into place for our sakes.

So why must we limit God to our understanding of "time?"

And that is the point I'm trying to make here. As I said previously:



Who is to say that the creation did not take place in 7 milli-seconds, or 7 seconds, 7 minutes, 7 hours, 7 days, 7 years, or even 7000 years?
God Bless

Till all are one.

Well I let the scientific dwell on & argue all this stuff with days & times & conditions....

It doesn't matter to me what the exact timing is - I'll never be able to be 100% positive on what that time is, what matters is if we accept GOD IS CREATOR OF ALL.
Evolution provides loopholes in which God can be removed from the equasion, and scripture reads that it did appear after He spoke it into existance, so I reject every form of evolution.

After that, I have no idea; but I do lean towards young earth.

3Then God said, "Let there be light"; and there was light.

 

[marktheblake]

The best way would be to provide Evidence that can't be disputed that shows that the Earth & Universe is young.

You cant change someones presupposition with evidence.

Just use the evidence to reinforce your own and prove that you do have answers to their criticisms, because all the enemy is doing is attempting to plant seeds of doubt.

But here is the irony - doubt causes us to consider and investigate, and we find more proof to strengthen our resolve. We win again !

 

[Nadiine]

Hopefully people aren't dividing over this stuff.

But I've found that many times those who push evolution tend to come from more liberal worldviews and it's the doctrines people promote that I will divide over moreso than if they think God created in 6000 years or 60,000 or one literal day.....??????????

I agree w/ Deacon Dean that the issue seems to fall into putting a time demand on God when we don't know necessarily know what His timeclock was.

 

[MatthewDiscipleofGod]

God was clear with the timeline. I don't see how he could have been any clearer. He was just as clear as he was with Jesus being the only way to be saved and that homosexuality is a sin. I believe it is the pressure from the secular world that causes us to compromise here. The days in Genesis are numbered and then there is day and night in case the numbers were not clear enough. Then in Exodus we again are told there were 6 days of creation and that we are to rest on the 7th. We are not told to work 6,000 years and rest 1,000 years. Where do people get this 1,000 years = 1 days? From the New Testament where it isn't even talking about creation! It is talking about God's patience with humanity. So this is terrible hemenutics and just people grasping at straws in my opinion. Also thinking that the individual days could have been thousands of years shows a lack of scientific knowledge because you would have thousands of years without sun light even though you have plants. Also you wouldn't have the needed pollination help by the animals for thousands of years. By the way the creation order is different then the order an evolutionist would give so adding more time will still get evolutionists scoffing at you.

There are some very big dangers with adding millions of years to the Bible. If you do that you'll end up with things like cancer and other suffering before the fall of man. There was no cancer, or even animal death before the fall. The whole world groans now although because of sin. Thankfully we have a new heavens and earth to look forward too.

 

[MatthewDiscipleofGod]

While I'm at is let us take a look at what some of the reformers had to say about this topic.

The Days of Creation were ordinary days in length. We must understand that these days were actual days (veros dies), contrary to the opinion of the Holy Fathers. Whenever we observe that the opinions of the Fathers disagree with Scripture, we reverently bear with them and acknowledge them to be our elders. Nevertheless, we do not depart from the authority of Scripture for their sake.

When Moses writes that God created Heaven and Earth and whatever is in them in six days, then let this period continue to have been six days, and do not venture to devise any comment according to which six days were one day. But, if you cannot understand how this could have been done in six days, then grant the Holy Spirit the honor of being more learned than you are. For you are to deal with Scripture in such a way that you bear in mind that God Himself says what is written. But since God is speaking, it is not fitting for you wantonly to turn His Word in the direction you wish to go.

albeit the duration of the world, now declining to its ultimate end, has not yet attained six thousand years … God’s work was completed not in a moment but in six days.

 

[Pazzoom]

Are there other fundamentalists out there like me that believe in the bible and believe the earth is around 6000 years old? Also how do you deal with it in todays society where people think you are stupid for thinking that? I guess being in a younger generation Ive got lots of people against these types of views. So what would be the best way for ignoring other people trying to convince me the earth is billions of years old? Thanks for any help.

I am not sure how old the earth is. I have no problem with a young earth or an old earth, because God is able to do whatever He pleases. Just as human researchers and scientists need to remember that with God all things are possible, so we as believers need to take to heart all the times in Scripture where the faithful and would-be faithful were surprised to find that things were not exactly as they had previously believed.

I know that God is well able to give the planet and the entire universe every stage of development recorded in the rocks — billions of year's worth — in a single moment of time (whatever time was in those days), and He is certainly able to accomplish it it in days. The so-called laws of physics that we all depend on in this universe only exist as it pleases God. He is not bound by any such physical properties. At the same time, we should not worry when science is doing "its job" of putting little pieces and hints together. In the long run, any real science will always confirm whatever God has said.

As to how we must cope in a world filled with unbelief, I have no problem doing so when I see people walking around afraid of ghosts and UFOs and vampires. Millions of otherwise intelligent people won't do anything without consulting their horoscopes or a psychic. Many others are still hoping to see the Starship Enterprise pop through the clouds.

My point is, when you see the alternatives to Bible-centered faith, and how unbelievers are coping in the absence of any real truth, it should give anyone courage and strength to take a stand when "those who know so much" decide to take out there unhappiness on Christian believers.

Whoever follows Jesus is walking in the light, so be patient with those who have no light. They are not the enemy. They are just needy people, like you and me. The terrible spiritual darkness that blinds them to God's power and love is the real enemy. They need what we have, so keep sharing, and trust God for the results.

 

[DeaconDean]

you guys still miss the point.

Who cares if it was six days?

Who cares if it was six thousand years?

Who cares if it was six million years?

What is the whole context of the creation all about?

The omnipotence of God. To show forth His power and glory. That's it.

What does the creation account have to do with salvation?

Nothing.

To me personally, it does not bother me to know that it took six milli seconds, or six minutes, six hours, six days, six weeks, six months, six years, six thousand years, or even six million years, that don't concern me in the least. That theological question and debate is way down on my list of priorities. One day I'll stand in front of my Lord, and I can ask, or perhaps I can ask that question around the Lord's supper in heaven. Perhaps I'll casually ask, by the way Lord, how long did take to create the world?

Creationalism is way, way down on my list of things to debate.

I'd rather spend my time learning to be more like my Lord.

God Bless

Till all are one.

 

[ReformedChapin]

I'm a hardcore fundie who has gotten into several fights with liberals over theological points. But I cannot deny the overwhelming scientific evidence which shows that the earth is billions of years old. That however being said does not affect my view that scripture is a historically accurate document and I don't see how a theistic evolutionist can reconcile bible inerrancy with their view. I do know of a friend who is a mathematician who holds to both scripture as the inerrant word of God and evolution as a fact, but seems to hold the dichotomy in polar opposite views. He just states that both scripture is a fact and that evolution is a fact but refuses to solve the tensions between his view when scripture makes it more than clear that God made one man and one woman....there is no mention of anyone evolving.