Age of the earth, why is it relevant?!

Tetra · Jul 3, 2018

Okay, so I'm going to start off by stating my position just so we're clear. I believe the "new earth" theory is nonsense.

However, the purpose of this post isn't to debate the age of the earth, but rather, I'm trying to sort out why it matters how old the earth is?? It seems in my experience, new earthers tend to be obsessively dogmatic in holding this position. It's not sufficient that simply they hold this worldview, it's necessary everyone else does as well. Is there an underlying philosophical position I'm missing here?

yeshuaslavejeff · Jul 3, 2018

As Yahweh says, CHOOSE TODAY who you will serve.

THAT is what Yahweh says is important (and the way to LIFE).

Anguspure · Jul 3, 2018

Tetra said:
Okay, so I'm going to start off by stating my position just so we're clear. I believe the "new earth" theory is nonsense.

However, the purpose of this post isn't to debate the age of the earth, but rather, I'm trying to sort out why it matters how old the earth is?? It seems in my experience, new earthers tend to be obsessively dogmatic in holding this position. It's not sufficient that simply they hold this worldview, it's necessary everyone else does as well. Is there an underlying philosophical position I'm missing here?

I understand that the importance is linked to the definitive statement that Moses made in relation to keeping the Sabbath: For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day.

If Moses was wrong about this, then what else was he wrong about?

yeshuaslavejeff · Jul 3, 2018

Anguspure said:
I understand that the importance is linked to the definitive statement that Moses made in relation to keeping the Sabbath: For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day.

If Moses was wrong about this, then what else was he wrong about?

Yahweh and Yahshua (Jesus) testify of Moses. When Moses was wrong, it was revealed by them, not hidden nor kept secret. The rest Yahweh's Word shows Moses right, in harmony with All Scripture.

inquiring mind · Jul 3, 2018

Tetra said:
It seems in my experience, new earthers tend to be obsessively dogmatic in holding this position. It's not sufficient that simply they hold this worldview, it's necessary everyone else does as well. Is there an underlying philosophical position I'm missing here?

Yes, I think you're missing that the "very old earthers" are just as obsessive in their position.

Tetra · Jul 3, 2018

Anguspure said:
I understand that the importance is linked to the definitive statement that Moses made in relation to keeping the Sabbath: For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day.

If Moses was wrong about this, then what else was he wrong about?

While I'm not going to debate the age of the earth, no earther (new or old) is saying the account in Genesis is wrong. You've created a false dichotomy when there isn't one.

yeshuaslavejeff · Jul 3, 2018

It seems obvious that those who don't believe God's Word is true are like the Germans who likewise taught that God's Word is not truth, and who wanted the children to grow up thinking so also. They figured it would take 3 generations to fully have everyone's soul to their liking, dis-believing God's Word and instead trusting that the government wanted them to think.

Tetra · Jul 3, 2018

inquiring mind said:
Yes, I think you're missing that the "very old earthers" are just as obsessive in their position.

Fair point, and I'm sure some are. Has that been the majority of your experience though? It hasn't been mine.

It reminds me of being similar to veganism (as a generalization). Where most meat eaters are fine with vegans thinking what they want, however, the vegans are adamant others should follow suit. Again, a generalization, but I'm simply basing it on my experience.

Anguspure · Jul 3, 2018

Tetra said:
While I'm not going to debate the age of the earth, no earther (new or old) is saying the account in Genesis is wrong. You've created a false dichotomy when there isn't one.

Not I. The quote is from Exodus. Those who hold rigidly to the idea hold that herein Moses confirmed that God created the Heavens and the Earth in 6 terrestrial days.
I currently have a different understanding.

Tetra · Jul 3, 2018

Anguspure said:
Not I. Those who hold rigidly to the idea do. I currently have a different understanding.

I see, you were explaining the position to me. Yeah, I suppose I just find that an odd position is all.

Tree of Life · Jul 3, 2018

Tetra said:
Okay, so I'm going to start off by stating my position just so we're clear. I believe the "new earth" theory is nonsense.

However, the purpose of this post isn't to debate the age of the earth, but rather, I'm trying to sort out why it matters how old the earth is?? It seems in my experience, new earthers tend to be obsessively dogmatic in holding this position. It's not sufficient that simply they hold this worldview, it's necessary everyone else does as well. Is there an underlying philosophical position I'm missing here?

It's a hermeneutical issue. The Scriptures seem to very clearly and straightforwardly teach a literal 6-day creation. If one rejects this teaching or takes a non-literal approach it creates hermeneutical problems.

inquiring mind · Jul 3, 2018

Tetra said:
Fair point, and I'm sure some are. Has that been the majority of your experience though? It hasn't been mine.

It reminds me of being similar to veganism (as a generalization). Where most meat eaters are fine with vegans thinking what they want, however, the vegans are adamant others should follow suit. Again, a generalization, but I'm simply basing it on my experience.

Broaden your experience... you'll see what I'm talking about.

Tetra · Jul 3, 2018

Tree of Life said:
It's a hermeneutical issue. The Scriptures seem to very clearly and straightforwardly teach a literal 6-day creation. If one rejects this teaching or takes a non-literal approach it creates hermeneutical problems.

Thanks for explaining the thinking a bit more. However, don't you think the old earthers have worked out the "hermeneutical problems" as you have put it?

Tree of Life · Jul 3, 2018

Tetra said:
Thanks for explaining the thinking a bit more. However, don't you think the old earthers have worked out the "hermeneutical problems" as you have put it?

They think they have. I don't believe that they have.

Tetra · Jul 3, 2018

Tree of Life said:
They think they have. I don't believe that they have.

So 2 questions if you could elaborate for me (I'm legitimately curious about your position)?
1) In your estimation, what do you see as the biggest hermeneutical issue?
2) If others feel they have reconciled the issue in their minds, what's wrong with old earthers holding the positions they do?

Tree of Life · Jul 3, 2018

Tetra said:
So 2 questions if you could elaborate for me (I'm legitimately curious about your position)?
1) In your estimation, what do you see as the biggest hermeneutical issue?

There's no clear genre distinction between Genesis 1-2 and the rest of Genesis. If Genesis 1 is a poem or Genesis 1-2 is something other than historical narrative, then we have no clear principle to guide us in where we draw the line between poetry and historical narrative. Slippery slope.

2) If others feel they have reconciled the issue in their minds, what's wrong with old earthers holding the positions they do?

I think that an evangelical, Bible believing, orthodox Christian is simply being inconsistent if they're an old earther. It's not the biggest deal. In my denomination, the view is allowed to be held by ordained ministers. So it's not a disqualifying view.

Tetra · Jul 3, 2018

Tree of Life said:
There's no clear genre distinction between Genesis 1-2 and the rest of Genesis. If Genesis 1 is a poem or Genesis 1-2 is something other than historical narrative, then we have no clear principle to guide us in where we draw the line between poetry and historical narrative. Slippery slope.

I think that an evangelical, Bible believing, orthodox Christian is simply being inconsistent if they're an old earther. It's not the biggest deal. In my denomination, the view is allowed to be held by ordained ministers. So it's not a disqualifying view.

That's a fair response, thank you. I can imagine you're correct in that in can be hard for me to differentiate precisely as to what is poetry from historical record. However, that doesn't seem to bother me, you know what I mean? For some I suppose that's an issue.

Tree of Life · Jul 3, 2018

Tetra said:
That's a fair response, thank you. I can imagine you're correct in that in can be hard for me to differentiate precisely as to what is poetry from historical record. However, that doesn't seem to bother me, you know what I mean? For some I suppose that's an issue.

It would become more of an issue if you're seeking to be ordained as a teacher. Teachers, at least in my denomination, have to have their ducks in a row on things like this. When I first came for ordination I did not want to take a position on Genesis 1. I would rather claim ignorance on the age of the earth. But teachers have to take positions and be able to defend them, so I was encouraged to study until I arrived at a standard position that I could defend.

For the layman who's not responsibility for teaching this stuff, it's fine to not take a clear position.

Tetra · Jul 3, 2018

Tree of Life said:
It would become more of an issue if you're seeking to be ordained as a teacher. Teachers, at least in my denomination, have to have their ducks in a row on things like this. When I first came for ordination I did not want to take a position on Genesis 1. I would rather claim ignorance on the age of the earth. But teachers have to take positions and be able to defend them, so I was encouraged to study until I arrived at a standard position that I could defend.

For the layman who's not responsibility for teaching this stuff, it's fine to not take a clear position.

Yeah, I get you. But to some degree that may be a bit TOO high of a benchmark. Surely not every teacher can have an answer to everything.

I would say for myself though, I find a beauty in not always arriving at a solid answer for everything. When something seems mysterious, it doesn't cause me anxiety, rather joy or excitement.

Citizen of the Kingdom · Jul 3, 2018

Genesis 1:1 God create
Genesis 1:2 the earth was made chaotic

Rhetoric question does God create chaos? The earth can be as old as any carbon dating given but remaking with 'after His kind' in 6 days doesn't create any problems anywhere so can't see the point of creating more chaos over it. jm2c

Age of the earth, why is it relevant?!

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