Age of accountability

[DarkProphet]

According to Christian doctrine everyone is a sinner, even babies, but some doctrines seem to temper this by saying there is an "age of accountability". Where does this idea come from and where does this "age of accountability" start for people?

 

[Ryanswife]

How can one be accountable for a sin they have commited if they do not know that what they are doing is sin? I believe that once one is aware of what is sin and what is not sin then they are accountable. Usually these things are learned fairly early in life or some things maybe later on.

 

[DarkProphet]

How can one be accountable for a sin they have commited if they do not know that what they are doing is sin? I believe that once one is aware of what is sin and what is not sin then they are accountable. Usually these things are learned fairly early in life or some things maybe later on.

Does this mean Adam and Eve were not accountable for their actions?

 

[Ryanswife]

Adam and Eve were told not to eat from the tree of life. They may not have knwon sin at that time, but they did know obedience. They disobeyed God and became aware of sin and all generations there after were born into sin. They knew what they were doing was wrong, but fell to temptation. Threfore, they were held accountable.

 

[DarkProphet]

Adam and Eve were told not to eat from the tree of life. They may not have knwon sin at that time, but they did know obedience. They disobeyed God and became aware of sin and all generations there after were born into sin. They knew what they were doing was wrong, but fell to temptation. Threfore, they were held accountable.

What of a four year old that steals candy? Would he be accountable?

 

[Ryanswife]

I would assume that if he or she knew that it was wrong then they should be held accountable, but the truth is that I do not know the true answer to that question nor do I know the true aswer to your original question. What I have stated is just an opinion. I can not be certain if it is truly right or wrong. To me - there is a fine line with questions like those and I just leave it to the good Lord to be concerned with such things. It's His job to judge sin...not mine.

 

[Bryan519]

I agree with Ryanswife. There are some absolutes in Christianity, but this is, in my opinion, not one of them. Although God gives us a pretty good idea of what He is like in the Bible, He doesn't tell us everything. I don't believe anyone here can profess to read the mind of God.

 

[DarkProphet]

I brought up the four year old because he is a neighborhood boy that has a lot of bad influences around him (older brothers). He likely did not know that stealing was wrong, or even that it was stealing. Yet when I brought this up with a Christian friend of mine he said that it was still a sin. All sins worthy of hell in his eyes. This seems rather unfair all things considered.

 

[Bryan519]

I brought up the four year old because he is a neighborhood boy that has a lot of bad influences around him (older brothers). He likely did not know that stealing was wrong, or even that it was stealing. Yet when I brought this up with a Christian friend of mine he said that it was still a sin. All sins worthy of hell in his eyes. This seems rather unfair all things considered.

It is still sin, in fact we are all born into sin, however what you are leaving out is the fact that Jesus died for that sin. Now as to whether God shows mercy on the children who are born into sin yet are not of age to make the decision to convert to Christianity, I personally believe God has mercy on them.

 

[Ryanswife]

I brought up the four year old because he is a neighborhood boy that has a lot of bad influences around him (older brothers). He likely did not know that stealing was wrong, or even that it was stealing. Yet when I brought this up with a Christian friend of mine he said that it was still a sin. All sins worthy of hell in his eyes. This seems rather unfair all things considered.

Like Bryan said it is sin and also like Bryan said, I too believe that God is merciful. He is a rightous judge. Jesus said let he who is without sin cast the first stone. Your friend ought to be careful judging others because he himself will be judged.

 

[DarkProphet]

It is still sin, in fact we are all born into sin, however what you are leaving out is the fact that Jesus died for that sin. Now as to whether God shows mercy on the children who are born into sin yet are not of age to make the decision to convert to Christianity, I personally believe God has mercy on them.

So accountability has more to do with converting then moral responsibility?

 

[KCDAD]

According to Christian doctrine everyone is a sinner, even babies, but some doctrines seem to temper this by saying there is an "age of accountability". Where does this idea come from and where does this "age of accountability" start for people?

It is nonsense doctrine meant to justify defining sin as a behavior or act of the will.
It directly conflicts with the original sin concept, it conflicts with any idea of a perfect creator and it also salves the guilt felt by those who say if you are not "born again" you can not go to heaven. All of which has nothing to do with death, the after life or anything else these crazy doctrines profess.

 

[Bryan519]

So accountability has more to do with converting then moral responsibility?

I assumed that you were asking do children go to Hell? Was that the jist of your question? If so, then I believe God has mercy on children. I can't tell you what the age of accountability is, I think that varies on the person.

 

[DarkProphet]

It is nonsense doctrine meant to justify defining sin as a behavior or act of the will.
It directly conflicts with the original sin concept, it conflicts with any idea of a perfect creator and it also salves the guilt felt by those who say if you are not "born again" you can not go to heaven. All of which has nothing to do with death, the after life or anything else these crazy doctrines profess.

I take it then this doctrine has no grounding in the Bible?

 

[Zunalter]

According to Christian doctrine everyone is a sinner, even babies, but some doctrines seem to temper this by saying there is an "age of accountability". Where does this idea come from and where does this "age of accountability" start for people?

It is not so much an "Age of Accountability" as a "Level of Accountability":

Once a person has the ability to understand right and wrong, they become accountable to it. That can obviously at any age, depending from person to person.

As for Adam and Eve, they had the capability to know right from wrong. Obviously so, for God gave them the rules for their conduct (Do not eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil).

 

[DarkProphet]

I assumed that you were asking do children go to Hell? Was that the jist of your question?

That is a part of it. Most doctrines say yes and people tend to say no. This is a common contradiction but not the whole of the question. The other aspect is the moral responsibility part, some hold that babies are morally responsible for their actions, still others hold that there is an "age of accountability" that magically marks that transition, still others hold that Jesus washes away all sins and that by accepting that you are saved (the side effect is that you are NOT morally responsible at any age). It all seems so contradictory no matter how you look at it.

If so, then I believe God has mercy on children. I can't tell you what the age of accountability is, I think that varies on the person.

Reading the Bible I don't get any sense that God would have mercy on children. After all he has children murdered at several points in the Bible.

 

[Zunalter]

I take it then this doctrine has no grounding in the Bible?

<staff Edit>

As for if it is Biblical, it isn't 100% clear, but there are some indications that it is true:

(2 Sam 12:22,23) While the child was alive, I fasted and wept; for I said, &#8216;Who can tell whether the Lord will be gracious to me, that the child may live?&#8217; But now he is dead; why should I fast? Can I bring him back again? I shall go to him, but he shall not return to me.

This was King David lamenting about his dead son. He said he would go to him, which would seem to indicate heaven since assuredly King David ended up in heaven.

 

[DarkProphet]

Haha, I am sorry about that person, but you have to consider your source:

As you might tell from that persons signature, they are a "Christian" in the loosest of terms, they attend a church of some stripe and have probably seen a bible on occasion. This may be a stretch, so they will have to correct me if I am wrong, but it seems that their comment most likely stems from a belief that nobody really goes to hell except for Hitler and maybe Stalin. I only bring this up because I don't know if you are looking for a conservative opinion or not.

I know of KCDAD's Christian credentials, or lack thereof. Still, that you discount him on that basis alone, how judgemental. In anycase, I'm looking for the opinion of anyone willing to answer. I know that like for most things there is no unified "Christian" answer for this.

As for if it is Biblical, it isn't 100% clear, but there are some indications that it is true:

(2 Sam 12:22,23) While the child was alive, I fasted and wept; for I said, ‘Who can tell whether the Lord will be gracious to me, that the child may live?’ But now he is dead; why should I fast? Can I bring him back again? I shall go to him, but he shall not return to me.

This was King David lamenting about his dead son. He said he would go to him, which would seem to indicate heaven since assuredly King David ended up in heaven.

That doesn't help much because it doesn't answer why his son went to heaven. Was is because he was sinless (in a time BEFORE Jesus) or was it because God was merciful toward some children? I say some because like I said in a previous post God murdered and ordered the murder of numerous children in the Bible.

 

[unkern]

I believe that there is an age of accountability. Until the child knows the different between good and evil.
2 Samuel 12:23"But now he is dead, wherefore should I fast? Can I bring him back again? I will go to him, but he shall not return to me." -This was David talking about his son that he had from adultery.
Deuteronomy 1:39"And the little ones that you said would be taken captive, your children who do not yet know good from bad they will enter the land."

But I still do question if this is only for the child of a believer because
1st Corinthians 7:14"For the Unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the Husband: else were your children unclean, but now are they Holy."

 

[KCDAD]

Haha, I am sorry about that person, but you have to consider your source:

As you might tell from that persons signature, they are a "Christian" in the loosest of terms, they attend a church of some stripe and have probably seen a bible on occasion. This may be a stretch, so they will have to correct me if I am wrong, but it seems that their comment most likely stems from a belief that nobody really goes to hell except for Hitler and maybe Stalin. I only bring this up because I don't know if you are looking for a conservative opinion or not.

As for if it is Biblical, it isn't 100% clear, but there are some indications that it is true:

(2 Sam 12:22,23) While the child was alive, I fasted and wept; for I said, ‘Who can tell whether the Lord will be gracious to me, that the child may live?’ But now he is dead; why should I fast? Can I bring him back again? I shall go to him, but he shall not return to me.

This was King David lamenting about his dead son. He said he would go to him, which would seem to indicate heaven since assuredly King David ended up in heaven.

David didn't believe heaven or hell. He believed in Sheol: The Grave. That is where he was going to "meet" his son. His son was dead. Gone. Period. David was also going to be dead. Gone. Period.
Unbelievable how people constantly add things to the Bible and then wonder why it is so confusing....