After the Millenium.

[crossnote]

I am somewhat new to classical Dispensationalism.
Can someone answer this?
After the Millenium (and during the new heavens and earth) what is the status of..
1. The Church (comprised of both Jews and Gentiles saved under this present dispensation)?
2. The Jews saved during the Millenium?
3.The Jews saved during the dispensation of Law?
4. The Gentiles saved during the Millenium?
5. The Gentiles saved from Adam to Moses?

Also is there a good book or article that fairly presents the differences between the Pentecost and Mid-Acts view? And are both groups considered Pauline in their approach to the Church?
(By my questions you can see how new I am).

 

[anthony55]

You already are after the Millenian !

 

[crossnote]

I can't believe you have had over 3000 posts and then give a non-answer as you did.

 

[Biblewriter]

I can't believe you have had over 3000 posts and then give a non-answer as you did.

I will advise you to completely ignore that poster. He is a troll who should not even be posting in the dispensational sub-forum.

 

[Biblewriter]

I am somewhat new to classical Dispensationalism.
Can someone answer this?
After the Millenium (and during the new heavens and earth) what is the status of..
1. The Church (comprised of both Jews and Gentiles saved under this present dispensation)?
2. The Jews saved during the Millenium?
3.The Jews saved during the dispensation of Law?
4. The Gentiles saved during the Millenium?
5. The Gentiles saved from Adam to Moses?

Also is there a good book or article that fairly presents the differences between the Pentecost and Mid-Acts view? And are both groups considered Pauline in their approach to the Church?
(By my questions you can see how new I am).

I frankly know very little about the so-called mid-acts view. I do not even know about a single good book that advances that view, much less one that compares it to conventional dispenstionalism.

Pentecost is a current leader among conventional dispensationalists, but I would not consider his word as totally representative of dispensationalism.

He wrote an extensive treatment of end time prophecy, which many almost equate to the Bible itself, yet in that very book he somehow missed the one end time mortal to whom the Bible devotes the most text. I speak of "the Assyrian" of Isaiah, Micah, and Nahum. When the prophecies about him are clearly understood, we realize that he is the same end time individual as "the king of the north" of Daniel 11 and the "little horn" on the goat of Daniel 8. When all these passages are summed up, they add up to more than twice as much text as that devoted to any other end time individual except the Messiah himself. I do not stand alone in my comments about the Assyrian. These considerations were well known among the classic dispensationalists of the nineteenth century. Men like J. N. Darby, William Kelly, and their contemporaries.

But all that is an aside.

Some dismiss simply accepting what the scriptures say as "the dispensational view," but the so-called dispensational view of the scriptures is, for the most part, simply accepting what the scriptures say as literal fact.

Now as to the eternal state. We know that after the millennium there will be new heavens and a new earth. In the new earth there will be no more sea, and God will tabernacle with men. we also know that righteousness will "dwell" in the earth then, as opposed to "reigning" during the millennium.

So from this, we know that there will humans in the earth at that time, and that they will be free from sin, so that God can righteously dwell among them. Since the seed of Abraham was promised possession of the promised land for ever, we know that the possessors of that land at that time will be physical descendants of the Israelites that trust in the Lord during the millennium. But we do not know much more about that time.

We know from other scriptures that the righteous from all ages will be with God for ever, that we will be in heaven, and that we will serve him. But we do not know much more than that.

 

[crossnote]

I am sorry for not making myself clear. By 'Pentecost' I meant the Acts 2 view compared to mid Acts...not Dwight.
I was given a book that presents more or less the fundamentals of mid Acts view called "Things That Differ" by Stam. But of course it gives that angle subjectively. I was hoping for a rather neutral run down on the differences.
Thanks for your explanation on the post Millenium lives of some.

 

[anthony55]

The millenium is over, it was the spiritual regin of Christ from His Throne converting His elect in the world, there is no more conversions now, Just a preaching of the Gospel as a witness, and then the end comes.

Matt 24:


14And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

 

[crossnote]

Oh? And when was Satan loosed?

 

[anthony55]

Oh? And when was Satan loosed?

At the end of the 1000 yrs, cant you tell ? The churches are a mess now. Thats because God has permitted him to deceive the nations again with all the false religions.

 

[Biblewriter]

The millenium is over, it was the spiritual regin of Christ from His Throne converting His elect in the world, there is no more conversions now, Just a preaching of the Gospel as a witness, and then the end comes.

Matt 24:


14And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

This is without a doubt the most outrageous statement you have posted in the dispensational sub-forum.

There are conversions taking place at this very time in record numbers. And there is not a particle of scripture to justify such an outrageous claim.

 

[anthony55]

bible:

This is without a doubt the most outrageous statement you have posted in the dispensational sub-forum.

Thats in your opinion !

 

[LamorakDesGalis]

I am somewhat new to classical Dispensationalism.
Can someone answer this?
After the Millenium (and during the new heavens and earth) what is the status of..
1. The Church (comprised of both Jews and Gentiles saved under this present dispensation)?
2. The Jews saved during the Millenium?
3.The Jews saved during the dispensation of Law?
4. The Gentiles saved during the Millenium?
5. The Gentiles saved from Adam to Moses?

Also is there a good book or article that fairly presents the differences between the Pentecost and Mid-Acts view? And are both groups considered Pauline in their approach to the Church?
(By my questions you can see how new I am).

Well the answers for what happens after the millennium are going to be very similar for all the dispensational views.

Some of the older classical dispensationalists divided the redeemed into an earthly people and a heavenly people. After the millennium then the earthly people would dwell on the earth while the heavenly people would remain in heaven, and this state would continue into eternity. The division between the peoples varied according to the writer. Typically all those who would be raptured were part of the heavenly people. Those who survived the tribulation and were admitted into the millennium were part of the earthly people.

The common view today is that all the redeemed will dwell together during the millennium and also afterwards in the eternal state. While there are certain distinctions between Jew and Gentile, there is none with regard to the basis of salvation and with regard to a resurrected body.

I am not aware of any particular book or article that presents an even handed approach to the differences between the two views. The Acts 2 (or mainstream) dispensationalists usually distance themselves from the ultra dispensationist views, if they are aware of them. The mid-acts and Acts 28 views are certainly aware of the Acts 2 view, but they make up a small minority of dispensationalists. They tend to focus on trying to convert Acts 2 dispensationalists. The primary distinction between Mid-Acts dispensationalism and Pentecost (Acts 2) dispensationalism is in the division of the dispensation periods.

The Mid-Acts advocates refer to themselves as "Pauline Dispensationalists" - so they are far more heavy in their emphasis of Paul's writings.


LDG

 

[LamorakDesGalis]

I will advise you to completely ignore that poster. He is a troll who should not even be posting in the dispensational sub-forum.

Hi Biblewriter! Glad to see you still posting here!

 

[crossnote]

Some of the older classical dispensationalists divided the redeemed into an earthly people and a heavenly people. After the millennium then the earthly people would dwell on the earth while the heavenly people would remain in heaven, and this state would continue into eternity. The division between the peoples varied according to the writer. Typically all those who would be raptured were part of the heavenly people. Those who survived the tribulation and were admitted into the millennium were part of the earthly people.

The common view today is that all the redeemed will dwell together during the millennium and also afterwards in the eternal state. While there are certain distinctions between Jew and Gentile, there is none with regard to the basis of salvation and with regard to a resurrected body.


LDG

Lamorak,

Thanks for your helpful post.
What caused this shift and who are the responsible parties? Is this newer view part of what is called progressive dispensationalism?

 

[Biblewriter]

Hi Biblewriter! Glad to see you still posting here!

And I am very glad to see you here as well.

 

[dan p]

I am somewhat new to classical Dispensationalism.
Can someone answer this?
After the Millenium (and during the new heavens and earth) what is the status of..
1. The Church (comprised of both Jews and Gentiles saved under this present dispensation)?
2. The Jews saved during the Millenium?
3.The Jews saved during the dispensation of Law?
4. The Gentiles saved during the Millenium?
5. The Gentiles saved from Adam to Moses?

Also is there a good book or article that fairly presents the differences between the Pentecost and Mid-Acts view? And are both groups considered Pauline in their approach to the Church?
(By my questions you can see how new I am).

Hi and ROBERT C BROCK has a book " DOCTRINAL PROBLEMS OF ACTS 2 DISPENSATIONALISM .

Google his name and he has a list of book for sale or maybe they have it online .

Brock also has a book on " THE DAY of PENTECOST " , and he answers all the above QUESTIONS , Dispensationally , dan p

 

[Terral]

Hi Crossnote:

I am somewhat new to classical Dispensationalism. Can someone answer this?

After the Millennium (and during the new heavens and earth) what is the status of..

Let us first clear up the matter of semantics. The 'Millennium' is the 1000 Year Day of the Lord (in blue below) that leads up to the 'END of the Age.'

The 1000 Year Day of the Lord (Millennium) begins with the rapture (1Thes. 4:13-17) of our mystery church and ends with the END of the Age (Matt. 24:3+) where the dead are raised and judged (Rev. 20:11-15).

The New Heavens (on right in yellow) and New Earth (on left in blue) begin in Revelation 21:1. Now to your questions:

After the Millennium (and during the new heavens and earth) what is the status of..

1. The Church (comprised of both Jews and Gentiles saved under this present dispensation)?

The members of Christ's Body (Church #2) are gathered to the Lord (1Thes. 4:15-17) to have their human host (water witness) and angel host (spirit witness) rejoined together into an 'immortal' (1Cor. 15:51-53) soul; when this mortal (water witness) puts on immortality. The Mystery Body of Christ then rules with Christ 'in heaven' for the 1000 Year Day of the Lord, which is the same exact 1000 Years that the devil is chained in the pit (Rev. 20:1-7); until he is released for a 'short time' (Rev. 20:3) very near the end of the age. We then judge the world 'and' the angels (1Cor. 6:2-3 = pic) at the end of the age, so that perhaps others can join us as members of Christ's Body in the New Heavens and New Earth that stand on either side of 'heaven' and New Jerusalem (our mother = Gal. 4:26).

2. The Jews saved during the Millennium?

The Jews saved during the upcoming 1000 Year Day of the Lord (in blue above) are all martyred (see Matt. 24:9 = 'will kill you'), until they join Peter, John, James, Cornelius and all the 'early rains' (see James 5:7) members of the Prophetic Kingdom 'Bride' (Church #1) saved via the 'Gospel of the Kingdom' (Gospel #1) some 2000 years ago. Those two bodies (early and late rains 'bride') are gathered together for the "Marriage Supper of the Lamb" (Rev. 19:5-10), so they can join us (Body of Christ) returning with the "Son of Man" at the END of the Age that ends the upcoming 1000 Year Day of the Lord (read to end of Rev. 19).

This 'Bride of Christ' also has an inheritance in New Jerusalem, but in the 'water witness' section outside the inner gates where the Body of Christ resides. Peter, John, James and all the members of the Kingdom 'Bride' are judged at the end of every age to see if any qualify to join us IN Christ Jesus; or the place where the Father and Son are indeed "one" around the throne of God in the upper section of the "New Heavens And New Earth" diagram above (in red).

3.The Jews saved during the dispensation of Law?

This Dispensation of Mosaic Law began with Moses in the Wilderness an continues to this day for Israel of the flesh! Remember that 'only' those obeying 'our gospel' (#2) are the members of Christ Body saved by God's grace through faith 'apart' from works. Ephesians 2:8-9, Romans 4:4-6. Israel of the flesh is born a member of the Body of Moses (Jude 1:9 - see 1Cor. 10:1-5), who is another incarnation of your mother Eve (like Noah, Sarah and Bathsheba).

Therefore, the three primary 'dispensations' from Scripture are Israel (OT), the Bride of Christ (NT Kingdom Epistles) and the Body of Christ (NT Pauline Epistles) who are all taken from the Gentiles. Remember also that 'all Israel' is saved (Rom. 11:26) via the coming resurrection of Eze. 37:11-12, which takes place in the New Earth of Revelation 21:1+. They come to God through Christ (the Lamb) BY WORKS in keeping with James 2:20-24, until they become members of the Heavenly 'Bride' (with Peter, John, James, etc.); until they are judged by us (Body of Christ) to join us IN Christ Jesus as members of the 'Body of Christ.'

4. The Gentiles saved during the Millennium?

All Gentiles saved via the 'Gospel of the Kingdom' are all martyred to join Peter, John and James on the 'sea of glass,' until they are married to the Lamb at the "Marriage Supper of the Lamb." The 'Bride of Christ' in heaven is an intercessory (priestly) administration that stands between the general population of 'heaven' and the Body of Christ already "IN" The Lamb, which includes everyone saved via the 'Eternal Gospel' of Revelation 14:6. Those souls (The Elect) are gathered up by the angels at the END of the Age, when the Body and Bride of Christ return with the Son of Man (Matt. 24:30-31).

5. The Gentiles saved from Adam to Moses?

You are misusing the term 'saved' here, as if anyone was saved through obeying a 'gospel' message in the Old Testament (never happened). The Gentiles from the beginning of time are baptized into the bosom of their fathers in the earth to reside on either side of Sheol (paradise or hades); until they are all raised up and judged at the END of the age. Some of those will be given a place in heaven in the general population, while others will be thrown into the lake of fire; according to the will of Almighty God.

Also is there a good book or article that fairly presents the differences between the Pentecost and Mid-Acts view?

Remember that Dispensationalism is a sect of 'professing' Christians contained in the "Protestant" section of Christianity (Roman Catholicism, Greek Orthodoxy and Protestantism). Since Paul was converted as the 'first' (1Tim. 1:15 + 16 = 'protos') in Acts 9, then Pentecost has absolutely NOTHING to do with the Body of Christ. Zip, zero, nada, nothing. Period. The 'gospel' of Acts 2 is the 'Gospel of the Kingdom' (#1) that adds disciples to the Prophetic Kingdom 'Bride' (Church #1), which is a completely different 'called out assembly' (church) from our mystery church called through the 'gospel of the grace of God' (Acts 20:24 = Gospel #2).

And are both groups considered Pauline in their approach to the Church? (By my questions you can see how new I am).

Everyone attempting to merge Pentecost (Acts 2) with Pauline (Grace) Doctrine has distorted the 'wisdom given him' (Paul) 'to their own destruction' (2Peter 3:14-16). Rightly Dividing God's Living Word means knowing the difference between Kingdom Doctrine for the Kingdom 'Bride' (Peter, John, James, etc.) and Grace Doctrine for the Mystery 'Body of Christ' (Paul, Barnabas, Titus, etc.) and our mystery church today.

In Christ Jesus,

Terral