Afrikaner History

[mahalia]

Hmmmm... what was that about beetroot helping agains AIDS? Or Jacob Zuma's showering after sexual intercourse was supposed to protect him against AIDS?

I do not belive SUCH ignorance could be ever found in Western Countries.... Africa after all....

Jacob Zuma is a person, not the government. he made a huge mistake and i do not take it lightly - and neither has our government.

concerning the beetroot saga: Manto suffered due to a very common problem when it comes to expressing oneself in a language that is not your own. i believe (of course this is speculation) she was trying to reittirate (sp, sorry) the importance of eating healthily if infected with the HI-virus - after all, it is a virus that affects the immune system. if you feed your immune system you will live a more productive life.

our government is not ignorant about AIDS - certain individuals are another story. you just need to look at all the programs that are in action to work at the problem to see. however i won't deny the fact that our country is greatly under-resourced and under-skilled in it's infrastructure and health system and yes, that needs to be looked at.

lastly, i know plenty "western" teens who have no concept of the immensity of the AIDS epidemic.

 

[deornie]

Jacob Zuma is a person, not the government. he made a huge mistake and i do not take it lightly - and neither has our government.

concerning the beetroot saga: Manto suffered due to a very common problem when it comes to expressing oneself in a language that is not your own. i believe (of course this is speculation) she was trying to reittirate (sp, sorry) the importance of eating healthily if infected with the HI-virus - after all, it is a virus that affects the immune system. if you feed your immune system you will live a more productive life.

our government is not ignorant about AIDS - certain individuals are another story. you just need to look at all the programs that are in action to work at the problem to see. however i won't deny the fact that our country is greatly under-resourced and under-skilled in it's infrastructure and health system and yes, that needs to be looked at.

lastly, i know plenty "western" teens who have no concept of the immensity of the AIDS epidemic.

THIS I believe is the main problem. Suppose the people that represent the government (ideally) are the best of the best, and most educated and and and.... I think THIS is the major evil that the people that have power to take the vital decisions of the country can be THAT ignorant... (Zuma is just one examle and we can talk alot about him but is he out of Politics already? I am not up to date ;-) )

Unfortunatly the education about AIDS is surely not enough in SA (as one example is giving out pamphlets about AIDS in schools with a condom STAPLED to the paper) ok i suppose it is better than nothing? Unfortunatly immoral sexual behavious is still the main way of spreading of Aids (also the sexual crimes that are so common in poorer areas, including sexual abuse of children and alcohol addiction(leading to immoral sexual behaviour)). So really to target AIDS is not enough just to give out condoms, but target OTHER related evils!

I am glad you have a better explanation of the whole beetroot story.

Sadly, SA is one more country that instead of bringing up peole to higher standards(through education) brings the standards to the level of the people.(That happens in many countries not just SA) But by tolerating IGNORANCE, AGRESSION and CORRUPTION of the government ( which is not some abstract body but PEOPLE it consists of, people that represent the nation, that are supposed to be an example) so by tolerating all that we tolerate all the EVILS that come of these vices.

Is Manto the lady that had recently an illegal liver transplant? Is it true that she has alcohol addiction? Minister of health? I really hope for HER and this countries sake that the whole beetroot story was just a language misunderstanding.... but something tells me it is too common a thing in South Africa. How sad.

I really do not think I should look into this kind of threads. Makes my heart bleed. Also so often in these threads there is too much hatred coming from people that know very little about SA(I dont mean anyone in particular I just participated in some other rather painful debates on SA which were later deleted due to hatred remarks.)

Oh, Lord, Our Father, please, let people see the truth and fill their hearts with love and compassion. Please help those in pain and fear.

I ask that not because we deserve it, but accordingly to Your great Mercy.

Amen

 

[mahalia]

^ yes i think these threads are dangerous because it provokes a lot of agression where it is unneccessary. yes she is the lady and i sincerely hope that when the truth comes out it will not be alcohol related or such. but chances are that it is.

Zuma is no longer deputy president of SA. he is still deputy of the ANC but i don't think that will carry on too long. hope not.

sure, i'm not pretending SA is the perfect country - far from it, in fact - but i will not pretend like it is only bad. plenty of improvements have been made. and, by the way, AIDS prevalence is decreasing, albeit slowly. and yes, there is plenty more room for improvement.

Question: how on earth did we get here from "Afrikaner History"???

 

[deornie]

LOL he he this is really a good one mahalia... LOL I have no clue... One word... women... always like to go off-topic... he he he

 

[CCGirl]

So, perhaps all of the "poor oppressors" would like to live in the terrific Bantustans. with all of the wonderful employment options?

 

[deornie]

So, perhaps all of the "poor oppressors" would like to live in the terrific Bantustans. with all of the wonderful employment options?

So who is exactly opressing who? Very easy to find someone to blame. Blame the apartheid? Been quite a time since. It has been more than 10 yeard of Democracy now, and still there are people trying to breed hostility between the nations!

Unfortunatly the problem is much deeper, the problem that the kids are born today are born to families that abuse alcohol, drugs and lead immoral way of life and oftem abuse kids sexually and physically. As a result many young kids turn to crime because they are often neglected and abused by parents.

Yes poverty is an issue, but with alcohol addiction all the effort to uplift fail miserably. I know local examples, when families are given furniture and kitchen appliances to create better standard of life and in a month time all is sold for alchohol and kids sleep on the floor.

The only way to break the visious circle is to help the kids reject the way of life of their parents.(Do not take me wrong all that is a reality, but there are thank God still decent talented people of all nations that have God in their lives. To generalize would be wrong and I would think that the post above is quite generalizing????)

In western countries if parents drink and abuse kids social services come and take kids away. In Africa it is impossible.

I belive in Missionary work, and instead of talking and blaming some mythological 'opressor' there are thigs to be done today to help real people.

Could anyone actually direct me to the some misionary workers in South Africa?....
Geez I am going off-topic again....
I think I will start another thread

 

[mahalia]

I like your above post, Deornie... no, really. peole like to find scapegoats too much. missionaries in SA? no, there aren't missionaries per se, i think, because the churches have taken that responsibility. i know in my area the churches are very active in alleviating poverty etc.

 

[CCGirl]

So who is exactly opressing who? Very easy to find someone to blame. Blame the apartheid? Been quite a time since. It has been more than 10 yeard of Democracy now, and still there are people trying to breed hostility between the nations!

Unfortunatly the problem is much deeper, the problem that the kids are born today are born to families that abuse alcohol, drugs and lead immoral way of life and oftem abuse kids sexually and physically. As a result many young kids turn to crime because they are often neglected and abused by parents.

Yes poverty is an issue, but with alcohol addiction all the effort to uplift fail miserably. I know local examples, when families are given furniture and kitchen appliances to create better standard of life and in a month time all is sold for alchohol and kids sleep on the floor.

The only way to break the visious circle is to help the kids reject the way of life of their parents.(Do not take me wrong all that is a reality, but there are thank God still decent talented people of all nations that have God in their lives. To generalize would be wrong and I would think that the post above is quite generalizing????)

In western countries if parents drink and abuse kids social services come and take kids away. In Africa it is impossible.

I belive in Missionary work, and instead of talking and blaming some mythological 'opressor' there are thigs to be done today to help real people.

Could anyone actually direct me to the some misionary workers in South Africa?....
Geez I am going off-topic again....
I think I will start another thread

These conditions exist in any colonized nation in Canadsa and the USA, Native Indians and Blacks. In Australia, the aborigines, in |Africa, the Blacks..


Our ancestors committed cultural genocide on the natives of every continent (except Antarctica) and the results are exctly the same, the world over.

You think 10 piddly years of so called democracy will give these people back their traditions, dignity, parenting skills, etc. I dont now whether to laugh or cry.

 

[mahalia]

These conditions exist in any colonized nation in Canadsa and the USA, Native Indians and Blacks. In Australia, the aborigines, in |Africa, the Blacks..


Our ancestors committed cultural genocide on the natives of every continent (except Antarctica) and the results are exctly the same, the world over.

You think 10 piddly years of so called democracy will give these people back their traditions, dignity, parenting skills, etc. I dont now whether to laugh or cry.

Girl, i think you are judging a situation of which you have no clue and you are bordering on causing a lot of upsets, so i suggest you take a step back to gain perspective.

you do not live here. i do. trust me, if our new democracy (which is 13 years old, just by the way) is detrimenting anyone, it is the whites. yes, hard to believe, isn't it? and even harder to admit.

the black people in South Africa (and i can only speak for my own country)were not robbed of their tradition nearly as much as the Aborigines - they were oppressed and badly so, that i do not deny, but they did not lose their culture as you suggest. in fact, they gained strength and unity thorugh the struggle (and again, i am not suggesting that it is compensation - if i had my way, i'd want Apartheid to never have happened).

Nobody is denying that attrocities were committed, but some people (especially non-South Africans) try to dwell so much on the past. our country is looking forward. the previously oppressed have their AA and BEE and they, too, are looking to a brighter future.

i find it quite hilarious, actually, how people expect 13 years to have been enough to fix health, education, poverty - the list goes on and on - but in the same breath claim how short and inefficient 13 years are.

stop looking at the negatives - we already live in so much of it, rather look at the improvements that have been made.

the people of South Africa (and coming from a fully integrated environment and school, with the majority of my friends being previously disadvantaged) are tired of dwelling on the past; they are moving forward --> the rest of the world would do well to do the same.

peace

 

[epice]

Fine, but then again are not ALL colonists hated by the colonized? The English were hated in India.....

I agree with Mahalia. There is as much wrong doing against whites as there is from whites.

 

[KCDAD]

I feel as ill as you do.

Skin colour doesn't make anyone superior or inferior.I agree with that.

If I am going to wear yellow, I would much rather have dark skin than light skin... that would definitely be superior...

However, If I am going to wear black, I prefer to have the light skin showing.

 

[FrenchAffair]

Afrikaner history is one of racism and apartheid. They took over from the British and pushed policies of extream racial discrimination to maintain the good life that they lived off the work and on the land of the native Africa people.

 

[mahalia]

Afrikaner history is one of racism and apartheid. They took over from the British and pushed policies of extream racial discrimination to maintain the good life that they lived off the work and on the land of the native Africa people.

Who exactly gives you the insight into this? Have you lived in this country? Have you lived in the same house with the people of BOTH sides of the coin?

Do not pass judgement on something of which you have no understanding whatsoever.

Afrikaners acknowledge the wrongs of their history. The racism. The brutal Apartheid policies.

But if you actually studied all of Afrikaner history (and not just a single part, as MANY holier-than-thou non-South Africans do) you would also discover a history of bravery (if you studied the Great Trek and the South African Wars for example) and a history of great suffering themselves (concentration camps, animosity from the English) and perhaps you would see that there is more than racism in Afrikaner history!

South Africans, ALL OF THEM, are trying their best to move on from there past. You have no idea what kind of crisis Afrikaners are in, carrying the knowledge of cruelties committed by their culture. Believe this: the majority of the Afrikaner civilians were either under the influence of propaganda or absolutely oblivious to the extent of the cruelties happening right under their noses. Those who were aware were the lucky few who had access to American and British newspapers! (remember that the government severely censored the media)

DO NOT CRUCIFY A NATION FOR THE ACTIONS OF ITS POLITICIANS

You try to be an Afrikaner in this country. You come live with being discriminated against for something politicians did before you were born. You miss out on amazing opportunities for travel, work and education because your skin is not dark enough, and we'll talk again.

Take note: Nobody denies the cruelties of Afrikaner history, but it is illogical and disgusting to focus on one segment of a history and disregard all of the rest.

So please, do not pass judgment when you do not understand the extent of a history, and do not condemn a whole culture because their spokespersons commited cruelties in their name.

Post script: Perhaps people do not like hearing it from me, but read these books for insight. They are written honestly and don't shy away from any thruths of Apartheid. And they give for excellent reading as well:

A change of tongue: Antjie Krog
Country of my skull: Antjie Krog
A dry white season: A.P. Brink