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Neverstop said:Racism has been legislated SOOOOOOO many times in the US I am surprised this claim has been made. Most OBVIOUS example..."Whites Only"
AA is NOT reverse racism because it is NOT African Americans as a group, oppressing whites as a group.
Jetgirl said:Should the government be trying to forcibly correct what it at most these days a social issue?
What really gets me, is that I, who was raised to be a colorblind as possible without forcibly removing my eyes, am catching flack for things done by dead people to other dead people.
No black person living today was ever an American slave. No white person living today was a slave holder.True in the literal sense as in chattel slavery but it could be resonably argued that thugh chattel slavery ended in 1864 apratheid and all of its' ugly ramifications existed until the 1960's and h=beyond really.
How long do white people who haven't done anything have to say "Sorry" for things that people who don't exist anymore did?
Well I am not asking anyone to say sorry, but make no mistakes, there are people alive today that suffered from American apartheid.
I'm not sorry, because I never did those things, and decry them.
And therefore you have no reason to be apologize.
I am trying to achieve the actual equality (as in everyone is treated completely equally) that has been trumpeted so long, and it seems like the people who were so adamanet for calling for it now want it not to happen.
I would like to see equality under the law, but without the "nanny" state, I don't think we will see it, not completely at least and even with the "nanny" state we will not see it completely.
Neverstop said:. Oh, how many African-Americans are in the NHL??? (not being serious on the last question.)
mhatten said:Good question, but at the root of that question is, is it at most a social issue?
On this you are absolutley wrong. The Civil Rights Act was passed in 1964, do you not think there are people alive who suffered numerous injustices at the hands of American apratheid alive today? Also, though it was passed in 1964 it was at least 20 years before serious societal attitudinal changes took place. I know you are not of the belief that the day after the civil rights bill was signed into law that miraculously discrimination/apratheid disolved.
True in the literal sense as in chattel slavery but it could be resonably argued that thugh chattel slavery ended in 1864 apratheid and all of its' ugly ramifications existed until the 1960's and h=beyond really.
Well I am not asking anyone to say sorry, but make no mistakes, there are people alive today that suffered from American apartheid.
And therefore you have no reason to be apologize.
I would like to see equality under the law, but without the "nanny" state, I don't think we will see it, not completely at least and even with the "nanny" state we will not see it completely.
mhatten said:And, do you have point here.
12volt_man said:Yes. There is a history of racism and segregation in the Democrat party.
In fact, your leader in the Senate is a former Klansman.
Just as the Democrats were trying to seperate us by race in the 50's and 60's, they're trying to do it now by reverse racism, affirmative action.
Jetgirl said:Since it is already illegal to discriminate on basis of race, I think so.
What is still hanging around is attitude, and you can't legislate attitude or opinion. All you can do is silence people with bad attitudes or opinion, which will eventually just alienate more people than before.
Good point. I was born in 1981, and could probably be considered conscious around 1984. I grew up in an integrated area, with teachers and role models of all colors and creeds, and there really was none of this "apartheid" thing.
It seems like only the older people have any problems with each other.
But it's not that way today, and if it's being done it's clearly illegal and you can take successful legal action to correct it.
Things HAVE changed.
I walk through my neighborhood and practically all the couples are mixed-race, there's every different kind of person imaginable, and we're all on the same basic economic level. There's four different kinds of churches including a synagog and a mosque and stores from around the world (where I can thankfully get some really good paneer).
When I went to college I was in the minority: 75% of my college's population was of Asian decent or recently immigrated.
But are they suffering now?
Have things gotten better at all?
I'm expected, however, to make special concessions for black people on the basis of this stuff that happened before I was born that did linger, but I never participated in.
Donkeytron said:Democrats-the timeless evil.
You don't need to get vicious or partisan to trash AA.
12volt_man said:Yes. There is a history of racism and segregation in the Democrat party.
In fact, your leader in the Senate is a former Klansman.
Just as the Democrats were trying to seperate us by race in the 50's and 60's, they're trying to do it now by reverse racism, affirmative action.
Neverstop said:Ummm...AA is not needed where there is no prevalence of racism.
Neverstop said:What should the policy be to disabuse a few hundred years of racism? Should we pretend racism no longer exists?
So how far do we go ?
Where is the AA for Asians ? Oh right, they never were discriminated against in the US.
Neverstop said:AA does not take lower qualified candidates over better qualified ones.
No, anti-discrimination legislation was introduced to combat discrimination that was already present.nvxplorer said:Thats putting the cart before the horse. AA was instituted to combat discrimination that was already present.
nvxplorer said:Sure it was wrong. Unfortunately, business owners break the law regularly. Proving the case would be next to impossible.
nvxplorer said:I lost three fingers in a table saw accident fifteen years ago. The owner was in violation of safety laws. He stood to be fined about $60,000, but someone at OSHA warned him the day before the inspector arrived. All the guards were quickly installed, and after he left, they were just as quickly removed.
If people were honest, wed have no need for laws and regulations.
mhatten said:Well how big of a societal problem is the question then. I don't know the answer, but I am inclined to believe it is not a huge issue, thus I don't think AA is needed in employment except in perhaps construction.
It isn't only older people really because unfortunately we pass on our prejudices and notions to our children and where you grow makes a huge difference in your attitudes about others, those not the same as you. I had started a thread in Ethics and Morality about how I love where I live because it is diverse, sounds quite similar to where you grew up. Diversity forces you asses your attitudes, to perhaps readjust your thinking from imagined preconceived stereotypes to be based on real interactions with people you have dealt with. I would absolutely hate living in an mostly Black area or a mostly white or mostly one of anything.
No it is not that way today not even close and I was not trying to imply it was, my only point is discrimination has not stopped
Interesting where was that?
Hmm, another good question. I would venture to say the answer is probably yes, not on the job front but emotionally. I imagine the scars of racism run b pretty deep.
This is an excellent read, Sincerely Wrong.
I not sure why you feel that way. Concessions?
But in practice, because Asians have a high representation in colleges, AA says hey youre doing fine, no discrimination against you Its a brute quota system, with all the associated flaws.mhatten said:Untrue, Asians were discrimianted against and are considered in AA.
mhatten said:You know, when my Dad was in boot camp in Alabama and people were calling him [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] before he was going to serve the very country that treated him like a second class citizen, he didn't stop to ask are you a democrat. He saw a white face.
The 3 little girls who died in the church bombing in Birmingham, their Moms didn't ask who did this Democrats or Republicans, they knew who did it, white people.
In the trenches with fire hoses being aimed at you , the KKK buring crosses on your lawn, and your children beaten and killed for looking the wrong way etc no one was asking are you a Democrat or a Republican.
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