Advice from the devoted?

[cwiehle]

Been a long time since I've been on here. Just got back from Good Friday service and am in a dark mood. Once again another service directed to the enduring Christian while the unspoken minority of puzzled members like myself leave more confused than when they arrived. I am posting in this forum because I am hoping to avoid the same generic answer one would expect to get in let's say a "New Christian" section.
My heart can't seem to win this battle for faith I am having with my brain. I attend Heartland Church in Rockford IL with my family on a weekly basis and for the most part enjoy the teachings. It is during the teachings I find myself questioning and second guessing everything, which leads to skepticism, which is where I don't want to end up. I don't understand how there can be so many devout Christians who seem to never have doubt in there faith and I continue to struggle with it on a constant basis. Some people said to just give it time which I have and am in the same spot I was a year ago. Others say "Just give yourself to God" which doesn't make any sense to me if I still have unanswered questions and doubts. The questions and doubts will still linger in the depths of my brain. I am tired and crabby which most often leads me to typing babble and nonsensical things so I am going to stop for now.

I guess that's enough for now. Move this post if you deem it necessary .

 

[pilgrimage]

I don't believe ever church serves the same purpose for everyone. If your not leaving with something in your pocket to take home with you then that church isn't edifying you. Church is a good place to fellowship with other believers, that's true. But some of the most learning tools of Christianity can be found daily on the net. A starving Christian can't be a good Christian, nor can one who sees wrong in the teaching where you attend. It may have to be a give and take thing. But find where you can learn and spend time with the Lord there.

 

[goldenviolet]

hello! greetings!
have you considered that you set a goal of what you should be in your mind, then beat yourself up for not being/ reaching it? or have you considered that your view of how God is, maybe needs to change?

i'm asking because you can pin-point when you 'should have' done better. if either of these, or both are true, then we need to help you build yourself up in these areas.

if i'm not right, can you think of areas where you need to be built up? really, that is what the body is for. we shape eachother as we walk together. let's figure out where we should start.

many blessings are going to happen! love, dee

 

[cwiehle]

hello! greetings!
have you considered that you set a goal of what you should be in your mind, then beat yourself up for not being/ reaching it? or have you considered that your view of how God is, maybe needs to change?

i'm asking because you can pin-point when you 'should have' done better. if either of these, or both are true, then we need to help you build yourself up in these areas.

if i'm not right, can you think of areas where you need to be built up? really, that is what the body is for. we shape eachother as we walk together. let's figure out where we should start.

many blessings are going to happen! love, dee

I didn't really set a goal, it kinda just clicked in my head that I am not progressing. I really do like the church we go to. I have gotten more out of it than our prior church experiences. The problem I have is the same with most other people. It is all just so hard to believe. The stories, the timelines (i.e. creation w/o recognizing evolution), the claims- Most written many years after the events occurred. I thikn I am going to re-read a book I have on my shelf "The Case for Christ" I am sure most of you are aware of it. Maybe that will raise some new thoughts, and yes I do read the Bible- (every so often) not often enough.

 

[Rut]

I have sometimes my doubt too.I never either thinking of what a church can give me.
My advice to you that I do when I have my doubt periods are to read/study the Bible and see if I can get some answer on my questions.In all season except winter i go out in the nature too and meditate over things.Most time meditate over Hebrews 3:4 and compare it with the nature.
I hope this can little help you.

 

[KingZzub]

Look at this way...

If I aim to do something, I don't know maybe read 10 chapters of the Bible today, and I read 8 (or even just 1). I don't get upset that I haven't read 10, I think better to aim for a target and miss, than aim for nothing and achieve it.

Rejoice in the effort you have made and what you have done.

Just enjoy - God is concerned about relationship more than ritual. You telling him how you feel and how much you care about him and trust him means more to him than you fulfilling your goals.


Cheers,
|ZZ|

 

[JPPT1974]

Not just read and study the Bible
But meditate and go to the Lord in prayer
Take it to Him in prayer!

 

[Prodigal7]

I second what JPPT said. I had a strange thought about six months ago. I realized I spent hours in front of the TV set but maybe only five minutes a day in prayer or less. I realized before I could have a good relationship with God I needed to make an honest effort. I'm not saying you're not praying. In my case my prayers were repetitive and superficial. I think it's important to read the Bible. Get a copy or translation you like. Don't worry about nitpicking every word. It's easy to get lost in the intricacies of the Bible and miss the main message. The book of John helped me. The epistles of Peter are short and talk about living in an unspiritual time. Eccliasastes is a good book to read if you're having "big picture" questions. Some thoughts that helped me.... Did I ask for this life?? Am I to believe humans are the only consciousness in the universe?? Is this life all a big mistake?? What about all the little coincidences that happen every time I try to sincerely follow God?? Something profound must have happened during Christ's time if they even changed the calender and the numbering of the years over it.... If Christianity is false why do non-Christians attack it so vigorously in comparison to how they react to other religions?? If Christianity is false who thought up all the wisdom in the Bible?? Here's a strange take - you don't have to have rock hard faith to apply the principles. Try doing something good for someone else once a day and not telling anybody about it. The biblical principles not only work in the hereafter. They help you live a better life right here - right now. Sorry for the long winded letter. This is how I've managed to grow my still small slice of faith. Good luck.

 

[Bramage]

Been a long time since I've been on here. Just got back from Good Friday service and am in a dark mood. Once again another service directed to the enduring Christian while the unspoken minority of puzzled members like myself leave more confused than when they arrived. I am posting in this forum because I am hoping to avoid the same generic answer one would expect to get in let's say a "New Christian" section.
My heart can't seem to win this battle for faith I am having with my brain. I attend Heartland Church in Rockford IL with my family on a weekly basis and for the most part enjoy the teachings. It is during the teachings I find myself questioning and second guessing everything, which leads to skepticism, which is where I don't want to end up. I don't understand how there can be so many devout Christians who seem to never have doubt in there faith and I continue to struggle with it on a constant basis. Some people said to just give it time which I have and am in the same spot I was a year ago. Others say "Just give yourself to God" which doesn't make any sense to me if I still have unanswered questions and doubts. The questions and doubts will still linger in the depths of my brain. I am tired and crabby which most often leads me to typing babble and nonsensical things so I am going to stop for now.

I guess that's enough for now. Move this post if you deem it necessary .

Actually the thing you stumble against, you have already come to know in your heart. The element of doubt.

Your relationship with the father is unique to you alone. He will draw you in His own manner to that which you alone will come to know. He draws you according to what your heart is in need of. It is not for others to judge you accordingly. The father is the only one who is able to do so.

I too, have stumbled along in my life, with the most significant issue of all...doubt in my heart. In time, the doubt deminishes, as we come closer to Jesus. And then, something incredible happens to us, which rids us completely of the element of doubt, which frees all of us of the chains which bind our heart, in the captivities of the world that enslaves the hearts of millions.

It takes time for all of us to realize and feel the Holy Spirit in our life. Worry not then, for the Holy Spirit knows the beginning and end of all our hearts, from the time we are born.

Pray to the father, who listens to your heart. For He knows the questions before you ask.

When I concerned myself with the issue of doubt in my heart, over the years, I came to realize the depth of love Jesus has for us, which has no element of doubt, nor fear, nor the anxieties of the world.

Personally, the doubt you speak of is the reason why the world exists in spiritual poverty today, and is responsible for all the suffering and starvation the world over.

You are wise to inquire about that which is most important of all...the element of doubt in our hearts.

To rid ourselves of this doubt, we need only embrace the depth of love that Jesus has for us. This is a personal relationship between you and Jesus, that in time you will come to know and feel completely, just how much Jesus really does love us.

For me, I came to a point in time of my life, after 18 years of learning the teachings of Jesus, and the single biggest thing for me was the small amount of doubt in me that still held on to me. Fear not, for it is the world which instills this element of doubt in us, a world which does not fully embrace the depth of love Jesus has for us. If they did, you would not be experiencing this today.

So there I was after many years, struggling with the one thing I came to know about my heart and my love for Jesus. I looked back over my life in my mind, and I saw time and time again, someone who kept coming to learn the teachings of Jesus. Over and over, I was returning to Him, knowing He would reveal something to me, yet not knowing for sure if He would. The Holy Spirit knows these things of our hearts, and knows the day when we will surrender our life to Jesus.
On the day I did surrender my heart, mind, body and soul to Jesus, I realized in my heart, that I was in love with Him. I wept alone, with no concern for anything, other than letting go of all the things of the world completely, finally knowing in my heart, that indeed, Jesus is my true love within me.

I said to Jesus, "It is you Jesus who is more worthy of my heart, mind, body and soul, than I am. It is you Jesus that I wish for you to have my heart, mind, body and soul, so that you can be here among us, and continue your healing of the illnesses of our hearts. I give you my life Jesus, for I have been reckless and useless with my life so far. It is your love Jesus which is much greater than my own, for I have been selfish and hateful towards others, of which is not at all like you. I am at the alter, giving to you Jesus, that which you deserve more than I...my life.

It has been you Jesus, whom I love more than any other."

I shed my life of my former self that day. Jesus has revealed many things for me to know since then. Jesus came to me and revealed himself to me as well, knowing exactly what I needed to see and feel, in order for me to finally let go of the small amount of doubt that still kept me bound like chains, to the captivities in our heart that the world enslaves us with.

I was sitting on the ground, leaning with my back against what I thought was a wall, my eyes closed. I felt a drop of rain stike my forehead. When I opened my eyes, I saw above me the feet of Jesus, and instantly I realized where I was. I was sitting below His cross, and it was His blood and tears, which struck me on the forehead.
Then, like a tidal wave, love swept into my heart, filling it completely with the depth of His love. As far as the eye could see, I was surrounded with His love. He knew that I was still held captive by the world, and my heart in chains.
But when I opened my eyes and saw Him, He knew how much I loved Him completely, and He helped free me of the doubt yet in my heart. His love moved upon me so quickly that there was not at all, any time for the element of doubt to hold me captive. He raised me up with His love, as His brother, knowing how much we both love one another. His eyes met mine, and I knew once and for all, how much love I have for Him in that moment. My whole life had lead me to that moment, that I had looked for all my life.

Truly I tell you that Jesus searches your heart, and knows your heart completely. He knows of the chains which bind us all.

Today I stand next to Him, not able to leave Him ever again. Like Jesus, it is not in me to do so.

Jesus is our true love within. Turn toward Him, for what we turn toward, we become. Come to know the spiritual poverty of the world, which can lead us away from Him. Look to Jesus daily, and He will reveal Himself to you at a perfect time, like that of a beautiful and perfect day.

Come to know the love in your heart for Him, for He is your true and faithful freind who loves you completely.

Jesus has no doubt in His heart. It is His depth of love for us, that He is the able to free you of your doubt, by filling you completely with His love. Look upon His heart and you will see clearly, the doubt which does not exist in Him for you to know and feel. It is Jesus who reaches out to you this day, for He knows the captivities of the heart which enslave the world.

How is it that I know these things of our heart, if it were not so? Know that it is Jesus who reaches out to all who reach out to Him. Do not let the world distract you away from Him, for He has a gift for you which is more valuable than all the gold and silver of the world...His love...which is greater than anything you will ever experience in your entire life. Do not doubt the words I speak, for it is the Holy Spirit which reveals the truth of many things for our hearts to know and embrace. It is the Holy Spirit which draws us all to Jesus.

 

[Bramage]

Oh, when I looked into His eyes, Jesus was smiling with warm love for me, knowing that I knew He knew everything of my heart for my entire life. He knew I was looking for Him for many years. I saw Jesus more by feeling His presence and His love, not so much that I needed to see Him physically. It was sorta like seeing an old best friend of many years, that you love with all your heart. Nothing else matters, but what you both feel for one another, knowing that it will never end, for you both know fully how much you love each other. It simply will not ever change, as the love is obvious between the both of you.

Here is an image that looks and feels the way Jesus came to me. Truly I tell you, Jesus knows our hearts completely:

 

[goldenviolet]

cwiehle
i recommend to help build you up, that you join a bible study group, men's group, or classes surrounding studying one subject from the bible.

if you want to grow spiritually, you will need fellowship and study. we all do. reading the bible occassionally doesn't really benifet us and much a good study. and with fellowship, you will have other's perspectivies, support, learning from them. they can encourage you and show you that you just need the next step in your faith: more growth.

we are always growing spiritually. if we aren't getting what we need spiritually, then we need to look for the next step. it's all about God's word and family.

 

[peetred]

First of all, do not be fooled by people who "seem" to never lose faith in God. If someone tells you they have never lost faith, they to me would surely seem to be lying. We all lose faith and we all fall short of the glory of God.

The best resource for loss of faith in God is PRAYER and READING THE BIBLE. Pray that God will speak to you through his truth and that you will begin to understand. You must truly seek him with all of your heart, not just on Sunday.

I will pray for you in your faith, that it will become strong and un-breakable. That The Lord will speak to you personally and make his love and presence known in your life, In Jesus's name.

 

[Ariel]

Well, I'll tell you what helped me. Maybe it will help you, too, or maybe somebody else.

I came out of a church that never preached the Gospel. I was an avid church goer, but I did not receive Jesus as my Lord and Savior until I was 19. Then it was on the basis of one Scripture, John 14:6 where Jesus says, "I am the way, the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." I had been in an argument with a guy on my college campus when he quoted that. The verse wouldn't leave my mind--it stayed with me throughout that night and into the next day. That next evening I got down on my knees and asked Jesus Christ to come into my heart, forgive all my sins, and be my Lord and Savior.

That was the begingning, but I still didn't know how to grow. I would pick up my Bible and sort of play Bible roulette, "Lord give me something for today," open it, read a passage, if that wasn't too great, read another passage, and close it. Not very edifying.

When I married at 20, I heard my mother-in-law say something about the baptism of the Holy Spirit. Now the church I went to had taught all about that, I thought. I had been confirmed when I was nine, along with the rest of the fourth grade at my parochial school. But I had never heard anyone talk about the Holy Spirit the way my mother-in-law did.

So one day when I was in our apartment alone, I asked for the baptism of the Holy Spirit. I told God I was giving Him everything, and asked for help following Him. Suddenly I began crying and shaking. Not only that, but there was this word on my tongue. It didn't make any sense at all, but I started speaking that one word. I didn't know what was going on. It took me months to realize that I had been baptized in the Holy Spirit and spoken in tongues. I didn't even know what it was.

The effect of that experience on me was to make me extremely hungry for the Word of God. I still didn't know how to read it, but I kept trying. When we moved to Albuquerque three years later, I was still hungry, and still starving. Billy Graham came into town, and I re-dedicated my life to the Lord. That organization was so wonderful to me. They didn't say I needed to leave my church or anything like that, they just sent me literature that taught me, and also counseled me to start reading my Bible in the book of John, just one chapter a day, and always ask the Lord to teach me before I started reading.

I started growing--and so did my faith. I finished John and kept reading in the Gospels. I was so hungry.

Meanwhile on the way to church one day, it was announced on our car radio that our church bingo had been robbed of $3,000 the night before. I told my husband, turn the car around. I had been grieved in my spirit about the gambling from the start. I didn't want to go back.

I was so hungry for the Lord, I didn't know what to do. I needed to find another church. For some reason I picked up the phone and called the little Foursquare church near us. Did they believe in the Trinity? In the Bible? In the baptism of the Holy Spirit? They did. We were there that Wednesday night.

Then I really grew. I resolved to read my Bible through in one year, figured out I'd have to read four pages a day, and started, now reading Acts and the epistles, and then starting at Genesis. I grew.

My faith, I discovered, was more effected by my reading than anything else. I would pray every time I sat down to read, asking for the Lord to teach me. He is an awesome teacher. If I didn't understand something right away, I would just go on. I discovered later that understanding builds as you read through the whole Word, comparing Scripture with Scripture. But meanwhile I was reading.

To this day, I know that if I am not in the Word, I just don't grow. So I've continued to read and study. I admit, I'm a lot slower than ever before, because I look up Scripture, write down passages that relate, sit and meditate, and write down anything the Lord says to me as He teaches. I also memorize Scripture.

I heard a teacher say once that poetry changes if you memorize it. Well, that's even more true for Scripture. And if you do what the Word says, it changes the Word even more! The Bible becomes yours, in a very personal sense. Also some things that don't make sense sometimes need to be walked out before you really get understanding. So you walk out what God puts in, and understanding increases.

In all this, my faith grew, so much so that I would see miracles sometimes when I prayed for people. Wow. God is really something.

Romans 10:17 says that "Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God." Well, that's true. Your faith grows as you read and study on a daily basis, and especially as you apply the Word you've studied to your life.

Corrie Ten Boom used to say that a parachutist who jumps out of a plane might exclaim as the chute opens, "It works!" Then she went on to say that when you read God's word and live it out, you are like the parachutist. Except instead you say, "Praise God, it works!"

Yes, God's Word works! Praise God it works! And when you see God's Word helping you in your life, it is so easy to believe.

 

[Bramage]

Also some things that don't make sense sometimes need to be walked out before you really get understanding. So you walk out what God puts in, and understanding increases.

Romans 10:17 says that "Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God."

Indeed, learning by reading is one thing, and then learning by embracing the meaning of the words is what we learn when we embrace all things thru the light of loving understanding...hearing with our hearts.

For example, I never really made sense of the what Jesus said, "As though a fat man, thru the eye of a needle, you will enter into the kingdom of heaven."

Then I realized the truth and meaning of this:

We are born into the world, which teaches us things like greed of wealth and boastful hearts. Only when we come to realize the teachings of the world that enslave our hearts into captivities, are we albe to let go of all these teachings which are not able to follow us into the kingdom of heaven. For the kingdom of heaven with Jesus is a loving place, where love is the only thing that is important. All else is nonsense and foolish.

In the kingdom of heaven we are compassionate towards those who have yet to know the depth of love Jesus has for them, and have yet to be free of the captivities of the heart, and the chains which bind, holding them in dark and bitter captivities of the heart. Anyone who has too many credit card bills can easily relate to this one.

For in time we come out of these foolish desires that the world teaches us, and then enter into the kingdom of heaven with Jesus.

Therefore, the meaning of His words are, "As though a fat man(teachings of the world) thru the eye of a needle, you will enter the kingdom of heaven.

We have to let go completely of these foolish teachings of the world, making room in our hearts for only love and compassion of others. All else is nonsense and foolish, insatiable desire.

Turn away from foolishness of the world, and toward Jesus, for His gifts to you are more valuable than all the gold and silver of the world.

 

[cwiehle]

I second what JPPT said. I had a strange thought about six months ago. I realized I spent hours in front of the TV set but maybe only five minutes a day in prayer or less. I realized before I could have a good relationship with God I needed to make an honest effort. I'm not saying you're not praying. In my case my prayers were repetitive and superficial. I think it's important to read the Bible. Get a copy or translation you like. Don't worry about nitpicking every word. It's easy to get lost in the intricacies of the Bible and miss the main message. The book of John helped me. The epistles of Peter are short and talk about living in an unspiritual time. Eccliasastes is a good book to read if you're having "big picture" questions. Some thoughts that helped me.... Did I ask for this life?? Am I to believe humans are the only consciousness in the universe?? Is this life all a big mistake?? What about all the little coincidences that happen every time I try to sincerely follow God?? Something profound must have happened during Christ's time if they even changed the calender and the numbering of the years over it.... If Christianity is false why do non-Christians attack it so vigorously in comparison to how they react to other religions?? If Christianity is false who thought up all the wisdom in the Bible?? Here's a strange take - you don't have to have rock hard faith to apply the principles. Try doing something good for someone else once a day and not telling anybody about it. The biblical principles not only work in the hereafter. They help you live a better life right here - right now. Sorry for the long winded letter. This is how I've managed to grow my still small slice of faith. Good luck.

Prodigal, you make good points about the calender, wisdom of the bible, and so forth. These are things that really help me, little nuggets that make something click in your head. I will check out Ecclesiastes. Thank you.

 

[cwiehle]

To the rest of you. Thanks. I read all your replies and am going to go back and re-read them. It never ceases to amaze me, the generous donstion of time you donate to make sure you give a hearfelt response. Thank you again

 

[Prodigal7]

I am also in my 30's. I'm 39. Only now do I feel like I have a mustard seed of faith. At 33 I was still fooling around with Buddhism and whatever felt good at the time.

I think it takes time and effort.

There are a few people, like Paul in the Bible for example, who have quick conversions. Most of us have to work and struggle for our faith. I'm finding it gets easier over time.

I'm a recovering alcoholic and have had numerous bad things happen in my life. Strangely though, those negative events forced me to take a hard look at God because I didn't really have a choice.

Lately I've been trying a different approach. Even when I feel lousy or far from God I still try to read some Bible and pray. It helps. I used to be real condtional. As soon as something went wrong God was the first one I blamed. I was a big part of the problem.

Take care and good luck. It helps us just as much as it helps you to share our stories.