Advice for a rambling [ex-]Christian

Please don't choose Islam. Visit Faith Freedom and Wiki Islam, I beg you.
I wish I could help but I'm on the same road. Maybe we could try some other-worldly religion? I think there's something wrong with atheism, personally.
Sorry I couldn't be much help.

Well your right, I believe it was Gahndi that said "I like your Christ but not your Christians." It all seems fabricated and man made, Christianity I mean. And it is, religion IS man made. Christ's followers weren't called Christians and they were not an orginized religion in the beginning. Man gradually MADE it that way. And as for Islam, I'm reading the Quran and my Quran comes right out and says that Jesus is the Christ several times and to surrender yourself to God. In fact, thats what "islam" means, surrender. And they probably were not an orginized religion when Muhammad started preaching "islam" (surrender) to God. It eventually BECAME organized religion. God is not a religion, and don't be controled by religion, it is your relationship with God that matters, and Christ said that there is no other way to the Father except by through him. Although it is written "A religion that God excepts is one that takes care of the poor, orphans, and widows. Your real relationship with God starts with Christ, and Islam teaches the same things Christ taught. The Quran teaches, and muslims do not believe that Jesus was Gods son. If you choose a religion, make sure you don't get rid of Christ, because that was and always will be your bridge to God. Peace and love and I hope God blesses you in what you are looking for.

Hi puptart, lots of us have gone through similar stages like you describe. I had been a christian for years but then after very a difficult stage of my life I was an agnostic for years.
I think that you still sought to give your life meaning and that was semi-successful with Islam. What is lacking is a changed heart, new spiritual life formed via an actual relationship with God as your Lord and Saviour. Other religions do not give that.

God can use what you've gone through to make your faith stronger and less vunerable to what other people say or think. And don't worry about what you imagine people may say or think. Every single one of is a sinner.

I understand, I think. Christians are often our own worst enemies, though Internet discussions are probably worse than real life. I actually do understand what you liked about Islam. Like Judaism, they focus on the big picture. (At least if you're not in a country where Muslims are in the majority. Being in control brings out the worst in all religions, but Islam seems to have fewer protections against the worst side of theocracy than modern Christianity. It also has fewer protections against legalism, though Christianity is hardly immune from that either.)

For some reason the Christian tradition, very early, got this idea that we have to agree on all kinds of specifics that I don't think Scripture really answers. I mean, if you look at the Bible, you see history, legends, poetry, prayers, and in the NT you see a number of authors reacting to Jesus in rather different ways. How that all turned into today's focus on precise doctrine I have no idea. But there really is a single theme in the Bible: God's determination to remake his people in his image, first using Israel, and then using his own son. The Gospel says that God is finally doing it, establishing his new people through Christ, and inviting us to be part of it.

I'm sorry that Christians have often been distracted from that theme, and focused on things that don't matter, or don't matter as much. But still, we do still hear Christ's voice and follow it. I suspect that's what you're missing, both in Christianity as you experienced it in the past, and in Islam: The crazy love of God for his wayward children, and Christ's voice bringing it to us, culminating in his death to establish the new covenant written in our hearts.

I've been in churches my whole life, and although I've seen bouts of short-sightedness and silliness, I haven't seen much lying, cheating, stealing, killing, discriminating and judging in the Church. I see people who are far from perfect, but who do care about living Christian lives, and building homes that point their children in the right direction. I guess there must be sections of Christianity I'm not familiar with out there. I've seen a variety of mainline churches, and in grad school at least some elements of evangelicalism. To be honest, the worst picture of Christianity I've ever experienced has been Christian Forums, where I see a lot more ideology and a lot less Christianity than I'm used to in churches. But there are certainly Christian communities out there where you can meet Christ and see his kingdom peeking through.

For inspiration, I recommend some of folks like Brian McLaren or Bell. I realize that will create howls of protest in CF, but I'm coming to think that howls of protest here is a good sign. McLaren's "A Generous Orthodoxy" pretty much captures my view of what the current church should be like, and based on what you've said, might well match yours as well. And there are churches like that. It's pretty common among the mainline and the more broad-minded end of evangelicalism.

Puptart said:

"I had been fed up with perhaps not religion, and perhaps not God, but the people who follow religion, and the people who follow God. I was fed up with the people who lie, cheat, steal, kill, discriminate, and judge, all while turning around and saying "Life without Jesus is worthless."

"I was sick of it. Aren't any of you sick of it, at times? (Christians I mean.. not non-Christians)."

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Hello, for the first 6 months that I started going to church, I was high every time that I went. I would actually do drugs in my car in the church parking lot right before I would walk inside to listen to a sermon. I also didn't act like a Christian in other areas in my life, I had an anger problem. There were probably some people who thought that I was a hypocrite. The reason that I was going to church was because I realized that I was a sinner and I desperately wanted to change. So maybe some of these people who were lying, cheating, stealing, killing, discriminating, and judging realized that they were sinners and wanted to change their lives. Some of them may have known that they were phonies and they may have prayed to God every night asking for help. I may be way off base by suggesting this about those people, but that is how I was. I really didn't admit to other people that I needed help. On the outside I acted like I was this wonderful Christian, but deep down I knew that I was completely lost. I look at church as a hospital for sinners.

God has changed me so much spiritually and emotionally. I have seen God transform so many people. With all of my experiences there is no doubt in my mind that Jesus Christ is our Lord and Savior. Puptart, I will pray that you find your way back to Christ.

The only cure for all the hypocrisy in the Church is what Communist China went through. Before Communism went to China there were missionaries from every denomination in China. The communist arrested all the religious leaders and sent them to work camps never to return. Up until recently the West thought the only “Christians” in China where the state approved “Christian” religion which was mostly humanist. But now we estimate as many as 100 million Christians worshipping in the underground church with no central organization. They have no denomination and take everything from scripture, yet worship just alike.

So if you want to get rid of the Hypocrisy in the West we need to have severe persecution, feel free to start praying for that.

Everything can be understood from the objectives:

Man’s objective seems to be to obtain and grow this Godly type Love to fulfill the mission (statement) of Love God and secondly others with all our heart, soul, mind, and energy.

Our “objective” while here on earth is to just accept God’s gift as it was given as pure charity.

God is not trying to get you to do something, but is trying to give you something.

That “something” is the most powerful force in all universes since it is the force that compels God to do all He does.

God’s Love compelled God to create beings that could Love like He Loves and did it for the sake of those few that would accept His Love.

The problem is not sin (unforgiven sin is a huge problem), because God will forgive our sins which helps us to Love (…he that is forgiven much will Love much….) God hates sin, but does allow it so we can more easily accept His Love (in the form of forgiveness the easiest way for us to accept His charity). The problem is not knowing that God exists, since a very small amount of faith is needed to help humans and knowledge of there being a God would only upset those that do not want the Christian God. The problem is our fulfilling our objective.

There are some things that God just cannot do like create a being that was never created and the one important to us is instinctively create us with Godly type Love since that would be robotic type Love. God will also not force his love on us since that would be unloving on God’s part (there has to be reasonable alternatives to make it a choice [the perceived pleasures of sin]). The easiest way for us to get this Love is through accepting it as a pure charitable gift. The problem being humans (due in part to the needed survival instinct) do not like accepting Charity from a Giver that paid a huge price for the gift.

The easiest way for humans to accept God’s charity (Love) is out of a huge need and that need is the relief from the burden of hurting others in the past (sin). By accepting God’s forgiveness we accept God’s Love (mercy/grace/charity) and thus we will Love much since Jesus has taught us (we also see this in our own lives) “…he that is forgiven much will Love much…”

Once we accept Godly type Love, we can truly Love and have the privilege and honor of Loving God (the forgiver) and others (God’s children) with all our heart, soul, mind, and energy.


This Godly type Love is defined by Jesus’ words and deeds (you can also use 1 Cor 13 and 1 John 4).

Puptart said:

But I'm afraid to go back to church, though. All the nasty things flood back into my head, all the terrible people I've encountered and the judgment and the hate and the negativity and the bullying. So I'm at this cross-roads and I don't have a clue what I'm supposed to do.

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May I suggest that you don't go "back" to Church, but that you go forward to Church? Obviously what you left behind, was for a good reason. And you know that was not Christianity itself, but problems with specific people. This tells us not to rely on people, but on G-d Himself.

Independence from G-d is the (or one) definition of sin.

The big thing, is to allow G-d to project His own Divine Nature, onto our own very un-divine nature

It's sad to hear about your former experiences, but people will always continue to let you down, no matter what faith (or no-faith) they follow. The only thing that can really make this for you is if the Holy Spirit convinces you that faith in Jesus Christ is the only way. No argument, in church or in a forum, will bring about that conviction, so I'll do a prayer for you!
Peace to you!

Puptart, here's something you might consider.

I think many of us go through questioning as you did, where the whole thing seems unreal. And in that case it's normal to look around to make sure we haven't made a mistake.

But consider the emptiness that has found you once again. To some extent, we are always going to have some of that to deal with at times - even Christians. This is why Christianity is so appealing to me. It doesn't rest on our abilities, which are meager indeed, but on Christ's finished work. So even when we can't get it together, are in a fog, or just don't feel like pursuing God, Jesus has us covered. That's the nature of grace, which is undeserved favor, and it has saved my skin over and over again.

I wish you well on your moving forward. And thank God you evidently live in a society where you can leave Islam and still keep your head.