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CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.
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AndrewK788
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Maybe this would be a good topic for me to begin with. I've been trying to think of a topic to discuss in here as a new teacher and this may be it. Check back in a few days and I'll have something.
Thanks for the idea!
I'll do my best to fully address your question. God bless!Andrew
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catlover
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Maybe this would be a good topic for me to begin with. I've been trying to think of a topic to discuss in here as a new teacher and this may be it. Check back in a few days and I'll have something.
Thanks for the idea!
Andrew
Thank-you, Andrew. I am reading "The Great Controversy." I like it, but I need clarification.
I don't know when I will go back to church, but when I do, I think I will check The Adventists out.
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Maybe this would be a good topic for me to begin with. I've been trying to think of a topic to discuss in here as a new teacher and this may be it. Check back in a few days and I'll have something.
Thanks for the idea!
Andrew
These both are great topics Andrew to begin with and are not easy ones either. The word “hell” is used 54 times in the Bible. It is translated from several different words with various meanings so lets see if we cant get everyone else to join in and give some input.
Red
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- Nov 21, 2008
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Andrew - One thing to remember is that Adventists take the bible "as it reads" literally unless an obvious symbol or metaphore is being used. In the case of hell (fiery hell - the 2nd death) we see it mentioned in Matt 10:28 and we are told that God is able to "destroy BOTH body AND soul in fiery hell". In vs 27 through 28 of Matt 10 Christ contrasts the 2nd death -- "fiery hell" to the first death and observes that in the first death men can kill the body but not the soul in vs 27.
In Ezek 18:4 we again have a reference to the 2nd death "the soul that sins it shall die". In that chapter we see the case of the righteous contrasted with the case of the wicked -- and only the wicked "die" that second death according to Ezek 18.
I am sure Rev 20 will also be covered in the study that is being created for this subject - but there you will find the term "the 2nd death" mentioned as occuring after the 1000 years. Literal lake of fire and brimstone covering the earth. The wicked literally "thrown alive into the Lake of Fire"
In Rev 14:10 you will see that the "torment" of the wicked "in fire and brimstone" takes place "IN the presence of the Lamb and of His holy ones".
That means that the saints will see the torment of the wicked. That means that our lost loved ones -- our lost friends and family will not suffer in some dark corner. It will take place "in the presence" of the Lamb and of the saints. In Rev 20 it is depicted as taking place when the wicked surround the city of the saints.
Therefore you can see the mercy and justice of God in not subjecting either the saints or the wicked to an "eternity" of that horrible event. Nobody is "rejoicing" to see it - but it is a necessary end to evil and rebellion against God.
in Christ,
Bob
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RND
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Adventist's teach that human beings have an immortal soul that lives forever in torturous flames where God sadistically punishes those that never loved Him or were scared of Him and refused to love Him.........
OK, just kidding! 
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catlover
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Adventist's teach that human beings have an immortal soul that lives forever in torturous flames where God sadistically punishes those that never loved Him or were scared of Him and refused to love Him.........
Got it! This will be a good subject-I dislike how Evangelicals love condemning others to hell...
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RND
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Catlover, let me ask an important question that we ask the prisoners of the prison ministry I'm apart of.
Can love be obtained and nurtured using force, fear, intimidation or manipulation?
You'd be absolutely shocked by the responses I receive from "evangelicals" about how God uses "fear" to obtain love.
Next question, if you were my wife would I stand much of a chance building a solid relationship with you if I came home every night from work told you to, "love me or I'll smash your face?"
Last question, do you suppose the picture of the true agappe love of God and Christ is closer to what is clearly expressed in 1 Corinthians 13 or is that not an accurate picture?
If you'd like to learn more about the infinite love of God the Father and of Jesus Christ might I suggest these various sermons and studies from Heavenly Sanctuary?
I have found these resources to be invaluable in shedding the light on the true nature and character of God. Enjoy!
Also, this book by Dr. Graham Maxwell has been a tremendous eye-opener for me! I hope you enjoy it as well:
Servants or Friends? Another look at God
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Adventist's teach that human beings have an immortal soul that lives forever in torturous flames where God sadistically punishes those that never loved Him or were scared of Him and refused to love Him.........
I was wondering when the "NOT" was coming in...
in Christ,
Bob
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Take a close look at Matt 10:28 God is the one who "Destroys BOTH body AND soul in fiery hell" according to the Bible.
So while it is true that the Rev 14:10 fact of "tormented in fire and brimstone" is a Bible fact that can never be sidestepped -- yet as we see in Matt 10:28 the end of that terrible process is to "destroy both body and soul" in eternal fire. A destruction that is fully capable of "destroying them by reducing them to ashes" as Peter tells us when speaking of other examples where God has destroyed by eternal fire.
Here is a great link on this same web site - look at belief # 27
http://christianforums.com/showpost.php?p=19015135&postcount=1
Having said that -- take a look at Romans 2:13-16 regarding the case of "non-believers". People without access to the Bible. Because God sends His Holy Spirit to "Convict the WORLD of sin and righteousness and judgment" there are according to Romans 2 -- some non-believers who though they have no Bible at all - are being lead by the Holy Spirit and will be accounted as informed-Bible saints while many Christians who DO have Bibles and knowledge of the gospel will be counted as pagans.
in Christ,
Bob
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