Adventist Separation

[Endium]

Awhile back I was having a conversation with a friend of mind about the separation between races/ethnicities in our church. My friend is Adventist, but his father is not. In their local area, a new church was built, very close to another adventist church. The new church was meant for African American believers, while the old one was mostly Caucasian. My friend's father asked why that was necessary, and my friend could not give an answer.

This made me think of some situations in my past. I am African American, but I have a number of Caucasian friends who are non-believers. I often considered asking them to come to my church, only to realize I would be uncomfortable taking them to an all-black church. I wouldn't be able to give a good reason for why it was like that.

In the past there was good reason to have separate churches, because of the cultural situation back then, but why is it still like this now? Are there any good reasons to have separate conferences?

A pastor I heard recently told a story about how a major politician's wife in South Africa is Adventist. However her husband will not allow her to go to an Adventist church because there are separate white and black conferences. He refuses to support the Adventist church when it is practicing Apartheid, the very thing the country fought to get rid of years ago.

What is keeping our denomination so separate? Why does it seem like we are growing farther apart rather than closer together? This is a crying shame, and it's even worse that it seems no one at the top of the chain is giving it any attention. It's as if everyone is fine with the current situation. Is this anything like how the original Christian church operated?

It's one thing to have different services because of a language barrier, however there are no valid reasons to have separate black and white churches in close vicinity as in the case of my friend. And even if one could find a reason to have separate church services, they would have to reach far back to come up with a reason for two separate conferences.

This is ridiculous and I am embarrassed of the example we are showing of ourselves to the world. As Christians we should be the forerunners of uniting together, as there is neither Greek, nor Jew, nor slave nor free nor black in Jesus Christ.

I guess my question to everyone here is, what will it take to break down these barriers? What would have to happen before we can all be united in one conference? Is this something that should be pursued, or do you think it doesn't even matter? Even if it is something that is good, how likely or how soon would it even happen?

 

[Sophia7]

I agree. I don't think there's any good reason to have separate black conferences. I used to go to a black Adventist church occasionally when I was in college, and no one ever made me feel uncomfortable there, at least not when I went with white friends. When I went with a black friend, though, he said that some people would disapprove of our being there together. I guess racism happens on both sides, but it doesn't help to continue to impose this segregation on people.

As far as how it can be changed, I don't know. Changing anything in the Adventist Church is a frustrating and slow process.

 

[woobadooba]

Awhile back I was having a conversation with a friend of mind about the separation between races/ethnicities in our church. My friend is Adventist, but his father is not. In their local area, a new church was built, very close to another adventist church. The new church was meant for African American believers, while the old one was mostly Caucasian. My friend's father asked why that was necessary, and my friend could not give an answer.

This made me think of some situations in my past. I am African American, but I have a number of Caucasian friends who are non-believers. I often considered asking them to come to my church, only to realize I would be uncomfortable taking them to an all-black church. I wouldn't be able to give a good reason for why it was like that.

In the past there was good reason to have separate churches, because of the cultural situation back then, but why is it still like this now? Are there any good reasons to have separate conferences?

A pastor I heard recently told a story about how a major politician's wife in South Africa is Adventist. However her husband will not allow her to go to an Adventist church because there are separate white and black conferences. He refuses to support the Adventist church when it is practicing Apartheid, the very thing the country fought to get rid of years ago.

What is keeping our denomination so separate? Why does it seem like we are growing farther apart rather than closer together? This is a crying shame, and it's even worse that it seems no one at the top of the chain is giving it any attention. It's as if everyone is fine with the current situation. Is this anything like how the original Christian church operated?

It's one thing to have different services because of a language barrier, however there are no valid reasons to have separate black and white churches in close vicinity as in the case of my friend. And even if one could find a reason to have separate church services, they would have to reach far back to come up with a reason for two separate conferences.

This is ridiculous and I am embarrassed of the example we are showing of ourselves to the world. As Christians we should be the forerunners of uniting together, as there is neither Greek, nor Jew, nor slave nor free nor black in Jesus Christ.

I guess my question to everyone here is, what will it take to break down these barriers? What would have to happen before we can all be united in one conference? Is this something that should be pursued, or do you think it doesn't even matter? Even if it is something that is good, how likely or how soon would it even happen?

As for having conferences that are separated by race, while both races speak the same language, I think this is absurd.

As for churches, it does make some sense because each race has a different way of worshiping God. I suppose it is a matter of finding what is most comfortable for ones culture. Some people are more open about expressing their praise to God, while others are more reserved. Yet, both can be passionate in their own way. It doesn't make either one wrong; rather, it just simply means that people would rather worship God in a way that is geared more towards meeting the emotional needs of their culture.

 

[JonMiller]

I attend a (mostly) black church. I beleive that there is a (mostly) white church about 30 minutes away (similar distance as the mostly black church). I think the segregation that still occurs is silly.

Admittedly, my church is fairly large (I am actually still a member of my childhood church, which I haven't attended in over 5 years, but the church I attend), and is the opposite direction as the mostly white church.

I do agree with churchs being divided by worship practices, there is a difference between a traditional church or a celebration church, but both can be good ways to worship and praise the lord. Similarly if there are language or cultural issues (I have been to philipino and korean churchs (I don't speak korean, but the afternoon service was in english)).

JM

 

[maco]

This is funny because I was about to bring this same issue up on this forum. At least now I won't be the thorn in the Adventist flesh on this one.

Last year at camp meeting I made some new friends in Christ. They were a black family from Jamaica who loves God and who desires to live according to God's word. They had their camp set up next to mine so we spent a lot of time together. About four months ago Mike from Jamaica called me to tell that he might not be at camp meeting this year because the conference was making some changes. I guess the conference thought it would be better to have the black Adventist from our conference meet with a different conference then the white Adventist. Mike wasn't to happy about this and neither was I. I spoke with my Pastor about this and he said that this has been a long standing problem that started years ago when there was racial tension between blacks and whites. He believes that since this separation has been going on so long it would be hard to change everything. I'm leaving for camp meeting on Sunday, I'll let you know if my Jamaican friends were there. If not I may have to sharpen my thorn.

Pray that Adventist hearts are convicted by the Spirit of their sin.

Acts 10:34-35 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons: But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.

 

[JonMiller]

I didn't know that anywhere was that bad. I assumed that (in the US at least) things were a result of issues 20+ years ago.

JM

 

[DRL]

This reminds me of an indicent that happened to me when I worked in Washington, DC at a hospital. An SDA doctor, who attended the same church as I, worked there also. One day he stopped me in a hall between buildings and made the following comment to me: "The black people should go to the black churches and the Spanish/Mexican to their church." Well, I am of Mexican descent, so I replied, "Doctor, I am not black and I do not speak spanish(at the time I had not learned enough to understand and speak it well). So where should I go." He did not answer me and from then on in church neither he nor his wife spoke to me.
Prejudice is alive still.
I am no longer SDA and that had nothing to do with it.
DRL

 

[JonMiller]

It actually took me a while to discover that there were two seperate conferences in the same geographical area. I think that that is stupid, and that is something that is easy for the division to change, it doesn't even need to go to the GC.

JM

 

[TrustAndObey]

I think it's shameful to segregate like that.

We have an interracial couple in my church, and there are lots of different races in my church as well. Everyone is loved the same and no one is turned away.

This issue came up on this board once before, and what I found interesting is that the African Americans admitted that they wanted it the way it was. That's probably not true for all African Americans.

Endium, you should post the contact addresses for the conferences where you live. We should all contact them and express our concern over the division.

 

[Endium]

This issue came up on this board once before, and what I found interesting is that the African Americans admitted that they wanted it the way it was. That's probably not true for all African Americans.

Yeah that is true for many. The two conferences was a African American idea in the first place I believe. For the most part there are very few people I know (black or white) who have a serious problem with it.

Endium, you should post the contact addresses for the conferences where you live. We should all contact them and express our concern over the division.

Where I live (on the west coast) there is only one conference. The regional conferences only exist on the east coast. However, even though here in the west coast we only have one conference, there is still much contention/separation.

A lot of times people use the different worship style claim as a reason for the separation, but I don't really buy this 100%. That is because there are white churches that range from contemporary to traditional, and black churches that range from contemporary to traditional. It's not as if the worship styles are completely different between races. Each individual has his or her own preferences, and that is not really limited to what race he or she is a part of.

The (black) church I go to now is fairly traditional, yet our church often joins in with the other black churches in the area to host different events. When one church has a youth day, for example, the youth of the other churches attend. Sadly, though, most of the blacks here don't even know where the non-black churches are or what they are doing. So really I find it hard to believe that the only reason for separate churches is just because people have different worship styles. If that was the case, we would see these same churches joining together more often.

 

[honorthesabbath]

It is my understanding that the main reason the black churches opted for their own Conferences is because the white Conferences were not promoting blacks to high positions and this made the blacks angry. And so--they started their own Conferences.

There may be some merit to this, I really don't know for sure. But indeed, segregation is not a Godly thing to do. After all--who's going to rule the new earth? Whites? Blacks? Hispanics? We had better learn to love and get along NOW.

By the way--the SDA church is not the ONLY church with this problem. Most ALL of the other demoninations are segregated as well.

 

[TrustAndObey]

Endium, if you get the chance, could you PM me with the information where your friend lives so I can make some phone calls? I don't think we should stand for this at all, even if they tell me it is the African Americans that want it this way.

 

[Babymine]

At the College I went to, it was not unusual to have 3 -4 different services going on Sabbath morning. White one way, Black the other, Hispanics over there, and "other" everywhere else. It was like a disease. You saw it, but no one really spoke about it. Those who spoke up against it, were taken seriously for a day or two, and then swept aside almost. At one point there were even those who pushed for these seperations. I dont understand how so many people are against these kinds of divisions, and yet it continues to plague the Church.

 

[honorthesabbath]

At the College I went to, it was not unusual to have 3 -4 different services going on Sabbath morning. White one way, Black the other, Hispanics over there, and "other" everywhere else. It was like a disease. You saw it, but no one really spoke about it. Those who spoke up against it, were taken seriously for a day or two, and then swept aside almost. At one point there were even those who pushed for these seperations. I dont understand how so many people are against these kinds of divisions, and yet it continues to plague the Church.

At the College I went to, it was not unusual to have 3 -4 different services going on Sabbath morning. White one way, Black the other, Hispanics over there, and "other" everywhere else. It was like a disease. You saw it, but no one really spoke about it. Those who spoke up against it, were taken seriously for a day or two, and then swept aside almost. At one point there were even those who pushed for these seperations. I dont understand how so many people are against these kinds of divisions, and yet it continues to plague the Church.

FEAR--I think it's due to fear. Each group is afraid that the other one will 'subdue and overcome' the other.

Let's face it--these 3 major groups are very different in their approach to worship and music styles and they don't want to give them up. For instance, I really don't care for Hispanic type music and I would not want to have to be subjected to it each service and I'm sure they feel the same way about "English" hymns and music.

Having said that--and keeping with my above post about segregation-this preference for music and worship styles should have nothing to do with loving our fellow Adventists no matter the nationality or skin color.

So if each group decides they want to worship God according to their styles--then so be it. We shouldn't get too panicked then about doing it in different locations.

 

[DRL]

"Let's face it--these 3 major groups are very different in their approach to worship and music styles and they don't want to give them up. For instance, I really don't care for Hispanic type music and I would not want to have to be subjected to it each service and I'm sure they feel the same way about "English" hymns and music."

When I was an Adventist, I did visit Spanish services. They sang the same songs the English services sang, only in Spanish. So there is really no difference in the SDA music. Unless things have changed since I last visited a Spanish church.

Then you better qualify what type of Hispanic music as there is music from Spain, Cuba, and each of the South and Central American countries and each is different.
Now if you are talking about the native music from Mexico with the guitars, trumpets, well I hear Mexican music and I just have to dance around the room.
Just my 2 cents worth.
DRL

 

[Sophia7]

For instance, I really don't care for Hispanic type music and I would not want to have to be subjected to it each service and I'm sure they feel the same way about "English" hymns and music.

"Hispanic type music"? I used to regularly attend a Hispanic Adventist church although I am not Hispanic. I went there because they were friendly, and they often needed me to play the piano. They were very traditional and sang mostly the same hymns that we do in English, just with Spanish words. I disagree with the generalizations that have been made in this thread about different racial and cultural groups preferring certain types of music or worship styles. Even within those groups, there are many different preferences that cross racial lines.

 

[Sophia7]

When I was an Adventist, I did visit Spanish services. They sang the same songs the English services sang, only in Spanish. So there is really no difference in the SDA music. Unless things have changed since I last visited a Spanish church.

I didn't read what you wrote before I posted. This was my experience as well, and I think it was probably more recent than yours. I don't think things have changed much.

 

[smooze]

Hispanic christians will fill you up with the holy spirit for sure. I was raised a Jehovahs Witness (we had a spanish group come in in the evenings. Well we got to taste their hospitality and I tell yah I ate the appetizer and collaped on the couch filled to the brim! I think fear and prejudicies run deeper than any of us really care to admit and see . I hope JESUS will soften our hearts AMEN

 

[TrustAndObey]

Good morning all,

Can you imagine a congregation where two sets of people were singing the same hymn in two different languages at the same time? Total chaos!

Our church, that I know of, doesn't even have hymnals that aren't printed in English, and I could see where that would make some Hispanics uncomfortable, especially if they spoke little English.

If it's a matter of LANGUAGE I really think that could just be a temporary issue (until they learned English), and I wouldn't see any harm in them wanting a separate service until they could understand an American one.

That's just a matter of common sense.

However, I would hope that the separation would be temporary.

 

[StormyOne]

It is my understanding that the main reason the black churches opted for their own Conferences is because the white Conferences were not promoting blacks to high positions and this made the blacks angry. And so--they started their own Conferences.

There may be some merit to this, I really don't know for sure. But indeed, segregation is not a Godly thing to do. After all--who's going to rule the new earth? Whites? Blacks? Hispanics? We had better learn to love and get along NOW.

By the way--the SDA church is not the ONLY church with this problem. Most ALL of the other demoninations are segregated as well.

That may be what you were told, but that is not the truth. What happened was that for years black ministers asked to be included or become a part of the leadership structure of the sda church. The white leaders responded by suggesting that regional conferences be formed where blacks could be leaders. Thus the idea was started and implemented by the white leaders of the church, and this was 60 yrs ago.

It is unfortunate that the TRUTH about how the separation was started has been obscured. When we discussed this earlier on this forum this information was shared and there were some here who disagreed with the information.