Adoption

[suzybeezy]

Of course, all children are precious and adoption in any form is a loving and wonderful thing. My point was in no way directed towards you or anyone who adopts from other countries, as those children need loving homes too. I've just witnessed first hand the overwhelming need in this country and felt I should share my point of view.

I think ultimately down the road this country will pay a price for neglecting the children in our foster care system. I agree with the OP that far better to put a child up for adoption then the alternative, but we as a country need to step up and take care of those kids, not just the perfect high desired ones.

Just my personal opinion.

 

[FaithLikeARock]

I'd like to ask Renton why he hasn't adopted yet. He's 26. Married. But childless apparently.

 

[Ohioprof]

I'd like to ask Renton why he hasn't adopted yet. He's 26. Married. But childless apparently.

Yeah. Telling other people that they should adopt seems quite presumptuous coming from someone who has never adopted.

 

[Ohioprof]

Of course, all children are precious and adoption in any form is a loving and wonderful thing. My point was in no way directed towards you or anyone who adopts from other countries, as those children need loving homes too. I've just witnessed first hand the overwhelming need in this country and felt I should share my point of view.

I think ultimately down the road this country will pay a price for neglecting the children in our foster care system. I agree with the OP that far better to put a child up for adoption then the alternative, but we as a country need to step up and take care of those kids, not just the perfect high desired ones.

Just my personal opinion.

I think that what you say is true. If I were 10 or 15 years younger, I would almost certainly adopt more than one child, and I would probably adopt a child through the foster care system. I am 53 years old, and I do not feel able to adopt again at this age. I waited until I was 47 years old to adopt. I am very glad I did this, but I would recommend to people that they adopt when they are a bit younger than I was. I am doing great, but I do get tired being this age with a small child.

 

[The Bellman]

I'd like to ask Renton why he hasn't adopted yet. He's 26. Married. But childless apparently.

I am not sure about Renton, but for most who are 'pro-life', IMO it's because for them it's not really about the children. They want the mothers to suffer by having children they don't want as punishment for the crime of having 'immoral' sex. Letting them abort allows them to have their immoral sex without penalty. It's never been about the children - it's about controlling others' sex lives.

If this wasn't the case, these people would be for methods which prevent unwanted pregnancies without necessarily impacting the number of sexual encounters had (such as improved contraception education and availability). They're against such things because it's not the pregnancies that are the issue for them - it's the sex. They want people to stop having sex, not just to stop having unwanted pregnancies.

I have zero time for any person who is 'pro-life' and also against the best method of preventing unwanted pregnancies (and hence abortion) - improved comprehensive sex education and increased availability (and ease of availability) of contraception. If they're opposed to this, they're not just saying "We want to stop abortion," they're saying "We want to stop abortion, but you have to stop it in this particular way" - demonstrating that the 'way' (ie., controlling others' sex lives) is more important to them than the stopping of abortion.

 

[WatersMoon110]

While I do feel that people who claim that adoption is the "alternative to abortion" should try to adopt children who need homes, I don't feel it is fair to mock people for not adopting.

I'm pretty young, and still in college, but I want to adopt someday. There are a lot of hoops to jump through, but I feel it is important to give children a chance at a happy life, and a "forever home". Personally, I want to adopt an older sibling group (so they can stay together) from the foster care system. But we don't have the means or space to adopt children now.

I do agree that being against abortion and comprehensive sex education and contraception is kind of counter-productive.

Since I do know people who are Pro-Life and actually want to prevent unintentional pregnancy, and who want to provide good ways to help support women who do become unintentionally pregnant (whether they choose to give the resulting child up for adoption or keep and raise it), I feel it is a slight to claim that even most Pro-Lifers care about controlling other people's sex lives. I think (or at least hope) it is a vocal minority that feels that way.

 

[Steezie]

We could allow adoption by gay couples, that would help MANY children find good homes

 

[Rochir]

This There are many MANY parents who are waiting to adopt a child and the waiting lists are huge..

Oh yeah, they are waiting to adopt...

white healthy babies from WASP females!

Oh yeah - great!

 

[Ohioprof]

We could allow adoption by gay couples, that would help MANY children find good homes

Right now every state except Florida allows gay people to adopt as single parents, and a growing number of states permit same-sex partners to then do a second-parent adoption, which has the effect of the couple adopting the child.

I adopted my daughter as a gay single person, which is what I am now.

 

[Steezie]

Right now every state except Florida allows gay people to adopt as single parents, and a growing number of states permit same-sex partners to then do a second-parent adoption, which has the effect of the couple adopting the child.

I adopted my daughter as a gay single person, which is what I am now.

A single gay person may apply to adopt but in most states GAY COUPLES may not apply to adopt a child and in many jurisdictions a same-sex partner is not allowed to petition to adopt a partner's child.

 

[Renton405]

I'd like to ask Renton why he hasn't adopted yet. He's 26. Married. But childless apparently.

Actually for your information we are trying to have children and are on a waiting list because we are planning adoption for the future..were deciding to go on early because we know how long it takes

 

[Steezie]

Actually for your information we are trying to have children and are on a waiting list because we are planning adoption for the future..were deciding to go on early because we know how long it takes

And Im SURE you checked the box marked "No Racial Preference"

 

[Renton405]

Oh yeah, they are waiting to adopt...

white healthy babies from WASP females!

Oh yeah - great!

And yet you have no statistics to prove that

Yet again

 

[Renton405]

And Im SURE you checked the box marked "No Racial Preference"

Is there any reason why you are so obsessed with race??

 

[allhart]

Is there any reason why you are so obsessed with race??

What role do you plan on playing.

 

[Steezie]

Is there any reason why you are so obsessed with race??

Is there any reason you dodged the question?

 

[Renton405]

So, as one of the "millions and millions of couples waiting to have a baby," let me just say... If you're pregnant and don't want to be, if you want to get an abortion, then get an abortion. Do not have a baby you don't want for my benefit, because you think that you having a baby when I want one so bad helps me out in some way, because doing that does not benefit me, or anybody, at all. Least of all the future baby. Make the choice that's best for you and your family

For people reading this message, please do not listen to it. HUman life is a very important thing and when you think of it, 8 months is not a long time compared to a whole lifetime. Do not listen to this woman.. If you kill the child it will be on your back for the rest of your life(and all eternity). Do you want your conscious to tear you apart everyday because you killed your own child?? If people seriously think the better alternative is killing the baby and throwing it in the trash then they seriously have problems deep down.. Don't get trapped into it, don't give into the temptations of Satan..Anyone who dosen't value the life of an innocent child dosen't deserved to be listened to.. Ignore them and decide what you want to do when your child is born.. The child has a right to live as does everyone else..

 

[Domenico]

For people reading this message, please do not listen to it. HUman life is a very important thing and when you think of it, 8 months is not a long time compared to a whole lifetime. Do not listen to this woman.. If you kill the child it will be on your back for the rest of your life(and all eternity). Do you want your conscious to tear you apart everyday because you killed your own child?? If people seriously think the better alternative is killing the baby and throwing it in the trash then they seriously have problems deep down.. Don't get trapped into it, don't give into the temptations of Satan..Anyone who dosen't value the life of an innocent child dosen't deserved to be listened to.. Ignore them and decide what you want to do when your child is born.. The child has a right to live as does everyone else..

I think you just proved you lost this debate.

"Help! Help! She's saying something reasonable! Dont listen to her everyone!"

 

[Steezie]

For people reading this message, please do not listen to it. HUman life is a very important thing and when you think of it, 8 months is not a long time compared to a whole lifetime. Do not listen to this woman.. If you kill the child it will be on your back for the rest of your life(and all eternity). Do you want your conscious to tear you apart everyday because you killed your own child?? If people seriously think the better alternative is killing the baby and throwing it in the trash then they seriously have problems deep down.. Don't get trapped into it, don't give into the temptations of Satan..Anyone who dosen't value the life of an innocent child dosen't deserved to be listened to.. Ignore them and decide what you want to do when your child is born.. The child has a right to live as does everyone else..

But seriously, are you going to ignore the statistics I put up and keep doing emotional appeals or what?

 

[Renton405]

I think you just proved you lost this debate.

"Help! Help! She's saying something reasonable! Dont listen to her everyone!"

You consider advocating killing a child reasonable?

You realize that if you support abortion you get a latae sententiae excommunication

Any Catholic who obstinately denies that abortion is always gravely immoral, commits the sin of heresy and incurs an automatic sentence of excommunication.

Canon Law and Church Teaching

Canon 1398: “A person who procures a completed abortion incurs a latae sententiae excommunication.”

Canon 751: “Heresy is the obstinate denial or obstinate doubt after the reception of baptism of some truth which is to be believed by divine and Catholic faith; apostasy is the total repudiation of the Christian faith; schism is the refusal of submission to the Supreme Pontiff or of communion with the members of the Church subject to him.”

Canon 1364 §1: “an apostate from the faith, a heretic, or a schismatic incurs a latae sententiae excommunication.”


Those Catholics who promote abortion are automatically excommunicated for two reasons. First, they have fallen into the sin of heresy by believing that abortion is not always gravely immoral (canons 751 and 1364). Second, these Catholics are providing substantial assistance for women to obtain abortions by influencing public policy to make abortions legal, and to keep abortions legal, and to broaden access to abortion. Those who provide such substantial assistance commit a mortal sin and incur a sentence of automatic excommunication (canon 1398).



Any Catholic politician who casts a vote with the intention of legalizing abortion, or of protecting laws allowing abortion, or of widening access to abortion, commits a mortal sin.

When such a vote indicates that the Catholic politician believes that abortion is not always gravely immoral, such a politician incurs a sentence of automatic excommunication, under canons 751 and 1364, because of heresy.

When such a vote is intended to have the effect of making abortion legal, or more easily obtainable, or more widely available, such a politician incurs a sentence of automatic excommunication, under canon 1398, as someone who is attempting to provide substantial or essential means for women to obtain abortions. Catholic politicians who pass laws which legalize, protect, or widen access to abortion, are providing essential assistance to women who want to obtain abortions.

It is not sufficient for Catholic politicians to claim that they are “personally opposed” to abortion. If any Catholic politician favors legalized abortion, despite a claim of personal opposition, such a politician commits a mortal sin by promoting abortion and by voting in favor of abortion.

The same is true for any Catholic who casts any vote with the intention of legalizing abortion, or of protecting laws allowing abortion, or of widening access to abortion. Such a voter commits a mortal sin and incurs a sentence of automatic excommunication for two reasons. First, they are committing the sin of heresy by believing that abortion should be legal and available. Second, they are committing the grievous sin of providing women with substantial or essential assistance in obtaining abortions, by attempting to legalize or broaden access to abortion.

However, if, for a period of time, Catholic politicians and voters are unable to enact a law prohibiting all abortion, then Catholic politicians and voters may in good conscience vote for whichever law offers the greatest restrictions and limits on abortion. Subsequently, Catholic politicians and voters are required by the moral law to continue to enact further restrictions and limits on abortion, to the greatest extent possible, and, at every possible opportunity, to vote for laws which completely outlaw abortion.

Voting for Politicians

In general, the moral law requires Catholic voters to vote for those candidates who oppose abortion over those who favor abortion. However, there are exceptions to this general principle. For example, if a political candidate favors abortion, but is a member of a party which generally opposes abortion, a Catholic voter may, in good conscience, vote for that candidate, with the intention of giving more political power to the party which opposes abortion.

In another case, a Catholic voter might, in good conscience, vote for a pro-abortion candidate, if the political office would offer no opportunity for the elected candidate to vote for or against abortion. Even so, every Catholic voter should consider that anyone who supports abortion, as if it were a woman’s right, or as if it could ever be a moral choice, must necessarily be someone who has a seriously limited understanding of morality and justice. Such a person would not often be the better candidate for any office in place of one who understands that abortion is gravely immoral.


i think God is more important than a debate and well as keeping my faith... And hopefully a reasonable woman will read my post who is considering abortion and not listen to tropicals