Adolf Hitler

[Simonline]

What hell?

The one about which we are taught in the Scriptures (assuming, of course, that you read the scriptures)?!

Simonline.

 

[Simonline]

I'd take him out of hell so I could personally torture him myself.

And in doing so you'd find yourself right in there with him and equally as unable to escape.

Simonline.

 

[Simonline]

Jews reject Christ, thus reject God. The words of Jesus speak for themselves as to the fate of people who reject God.

Now that is according to fundamentalist scripture (all non-chrsitians goto hell).

Personally i do not believe that so your attacks on my are unwarranted.

Not all Jews have rejected their Messiah and the assumption that they have is just another manifestation of Gentile Christian anti-Semitism.

Neither are all who trust in the Messiah 'Christians' (though they are all true believers). Contrary to popular opinion amongst Gentile Christians, Gentile Christianity does not have a monopoly on Biblical Truth.

There is no such thing as 'fundamentalist' Scriptures, only fundamentalist interpretations (as distinct from liberal interpretations) of the Scriptures.

The Scriptures do not teach that all non-Christians go to Hell at all, that is Gentile Christian self-righteous arrogance.

What the Scriptures teach is that any who reject God and His incarnation as the Messiah are lost (which is not the same thing) since one does not have to be a Gentile Christian in order to trust in the God of the Bible and His incarnation as the Messiah. [The Gentile Christian Church is so self-righteously arrogant that she has learned nothing from the controversy that was finally resolved in Acts 15 as is evident from the fact that she now expects Jews to become Gentile Christians before they can come to faith in the Holy One of Israel and His incarnation as the Jewish Messiah and so find salvation, an inversion of the very heresy that Paul fought so hard to eradicate?!]

Simonline.

 

[Simonline]

i believe majority of Jews who died in holocaust to have been saved by the Lord, out of his goodness and mercy...these were people put in the worse possible he** on earth. I belive that the Lord extended his grace to them, so that they would be saved. Dont underestimate his mercy.

I believe that you have no theological basis for saying that (and that the true basis of your argument is emotion rather than Truth) and that the same rules apply to Jewish victims of the Holocaust as to everyone else. Only those who, whilst being in a position of moral accountability, place their faith in the Holy One of Israel and His incarnation as the Messiah, will be saved, irrespective of how they die physically (Hab.2:4; Rom.1:16-17).

God does not show favouritism.

Simonline.

 

[Simonline]

mezza writes "Jews reject Christ..." as if *all* Jews reject them, and as if this were a fact.

wrong, you also seem lacking in any understanding about the Jews value to God, their position with him and his plan for them, as well as God's mercy

Be careful, whilst the Israelites as a nation are still God's representative ('chosen') people, and still have a vital role to play in the redemptive purposes of God, on an individual basis they are not saved just because they are Israelites. They must still come to living faith in the Holy One of Israel and His incarnation as the Messiah, just as we Gentiles must.

Simonline.

 

[MezzaMorta]

[FONT=&quot] Not all Jews have rejected their Messiah and the assumption that they have is just another manifestation of Gentile Christian anti-Semitism.

[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] One that embraces Christ = Christian. One who rejects the Messiah and embraces the OT and other Jewish texts = Jewish.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Jewish Christian is an oxymoron. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]

The Scriptures do not teach that all non-Christians go to Hell at all

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[FONT=&quot] I agree, though many Protestants don’t which was the point I was illustrating.[/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]

What the Scriptures teach is that any who reject God and His incarnation as the Messiah are lost (which is not the same thing) since one does not have to be a Gentile Christian in order to trust in the God of the Bible and His incarnation as the Messiah. [The Gentile Christian Church is so self-righteously arrogant that she has learned nothing from the controversy that was finally resolved in Acts 15 as is evident from the fact that she now expects Jews to become Gentile Christians before they can come to faith in the Holy One of Israel and His incarnation as the Jewish Messiah and so find salvation, an inversion of the very heresy that Paul fought so hard to eradicate?!]

[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] The bible teaches that God will judge us all, he knows what is in our hearts and I fully believe that the righteous among us, no matter our affiliation will be granted salvation by our Lord. Christianity might be the most direct path towards that righteous life, but does not mean that a non-Christian can not achieve the same. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

 

[holo]

So you, a sinful creature, believe that the Perfect, Righteous and Holy God is wrong to send people to the everlasting Lake of Fire because of their sin?!

First of all, I'm not a sinful creature.

Yes, I believe it would be wrong if God sent people to be tortured forever. I'm not so sure that's what He actually does.

Can't wait to see you try and justify that one on the Day of Judgement

Yeah... Can you picture that? Christ interrogating me about my beliefs on hell, and asking me to justify them? Oh, he's gonna smack me right down, isn't He? And you'll be free to smile smugly and say "told you so" and then receive your crown...

 

[holo]

God wouldn't but some of those who claim to be representing Him often do?

Simonline.

Yes. God is quoted directly several times in scripture, and people will repeat those quotes east and west and try to make me believe it's what God is actually trying to communicate to me, today. For example, critisize a christian leader and "God" will say, "touch not the Lord's anointed!"

 

[cookiebaker]

simonline,


to clarify, I veyr much do understand how one is saved. If you read my post carefully you would see I never wrote that I thought the Jews were saved just bc they werew Jews. I stated that I believe, knowing what iknow from scripture and my personal relatioinship with Christ that he is bountiful with mercy and lovingkindness, and that bc of the he** on earth they were in, (the Jews) that I believe Christ extended his grace to them again, and again and again...I do not believe that one can compare a Jewish persons situation in the death camp., to a person living comfortably in society, going to Starbucksn adn taking it easy. Of course the method of slavation is the same...however in scripture we do see how Christ would go out of his way to reach a person such as the woman who was being stoned for adultery, or going into the home of the 12 yr old girl who had died, etc.
I dont think we need to do anything but look thru the BIble to see that...and if we have our own relationship with himas well, we know he is aGod of mercy, not just logistics and statistics and rules.
Take the woman in adultery, was the Lord showing her favoritism for making a point of helping her specifically like that, and rebuking those who were condemning her? Her sin was a sin the same as lets' say, a lesser known sinner, let's say a lady who lost her temper and yelled. Christ though must have a reason for pointing these things out in scripture, (that he will go out of his way for those who are especially in hot water so to speak...for those who are esp broken hearted, the family of Lazarus and the parents of the girl, etc

it goes to follow that in that unspeakably evil and cruel place thatthe Jews were in, that Christ was broken hearted, and just ike in examples above, went in there with them, extended himself above and beyond perhaps what he would with a person living in today's society, having an easy comfortalbe life. I believe Christ saw that and reached out with exceptional grace and mercy...in ways we will never know of.
if my young daughter is brought to tears just hearing someone mention the holocaust, I would hope us adults coudl be that tender hearted as well...i think sometimes kids get it more than adults.

 

[Aprill]

Bickering aside, I think that our God is ALL KNOWING, and ALL LOVING and JUST.

Therefore I don't believe that God would put anyone in hell that didn't deserve it nor would he unfairly punish his people. If you truly believe in an all loving God, then you would realize he loves everyone, and that we will all answer to His judgement. There is no sense in arguing over who is going to hell, who's not...

Hilter was mentally ill, and isn't that something that needs to be taken into consideration? Does that justify it, of course not...but just think about it.

 

[intricatic]

11 Has a nation changed its gods,
Which are not gods?
But My people have changed their Glory
For what does not profit.
12 Be astonished, O heavens, at this,
And be horribly afraid;
Be very desolate,” says the LORD.
13 “ For My people have committed two evils:
They have forsaken Me, the fountain of living waters,
And hewn themselves cisterns—broken cisterns that can hold no water.
(Jeremiah 2)

I don't even know what the OP is asking. Let Hitler out of Hell? Why? How? If God has so judged that Hitler deserves Hell, then that's the most perfect judgement that can be made. If God judged that Hitler doesn't deserve Hell, who am I to argue?

 

[Simonline]

I'd take him out of hell so I could personally torture him myself.

Does 'Let he who is without sin cast the first stone?!' mean anything to you? Be careful that, after you've finished torturing Hitler, the Messiah doesn't make you stay with Him forever, since you clearly share the same sadistic tendencies?!

Simonline.

 

[martymonster]

Oh boy, so many answers that are unscriptural.

Let me give you a scriptural answer now and see how different it is from what mainstream Christianity says!

First of all some scripture.


2Ti 2:20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour.

Rom 9:17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.
Rom 9:18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.
Rom 9:19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?
Rom 9:20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?
Rom 9:21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
Rom 9:22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:

Isa 10:3 And what will ye do in the day of visitation, and in the desolation which shall come from far? to whom will ye flee for help? and where will ye leave your glory?
Isa 10:4 Without me they shall bow down under the prisoners, and they shall fall under the slain. For all this his anger is not turned away, but his hand is stretched out still.
Isa 10:5 O Assyrian, the rod of mine anger, and the staff in their hand is mine indignation.
Isa 10:6 I will send him against an hypocritical nation, and against the people of my wrath will I give him a charge, to take the spoil, and to take the prey, and to tread them down like the mire of the streets.
Isa 10:7 Howbeit he meaneth not so, neither doth his heart think so; but it is in his heart to destroy and cut off nations not a few.

Isa 10:11 Shall I not, as I have done unto Samaria and her idols, so do to Jerusalem and her idols?
Isa 10:12 Wherefore it shall come to pass, that when the Lord hath performed his whole work upon mount Zion and on Jerusalem, I will punish the fruit of the stout heart of the king of Assyria, and the glory of his high looks.
Isa 10:13 For he saith, By the strength of my hand I have done it, and by my wisdom; for I am prudent: and I have removed the bounds of the people, and have robbed their treasures, and I have put down the inhabitants like a valiant man:
Isa 10:14 And my hand hath found as a nest the riches of the people: and as one gathereth eggs that are left, have I gathered all the earth; and there was none that moved the wing, or opened the mouth, or peeped.
Isa 10:15 Shall the axe boast itself against him that heweth therewith? or shall the saw magnify itself against him that shaketh it? as if the rod should shake itself against them that lift it up, or as if the staff should lift up itself, as if it were no wood.


This is how God operates, freewill? huh, I don't think so!

You see how God operates according to scripture?
He sets you up to do evil (I didn't say He makes you do evil, you are a sinning machien) and then He delivers you into you're enemies for punishment, for some that includes death and for some that includes seeing you're loved one's die in front of you while you yourself are spared (worse than death).
He then punishes you're enemies for the sin that is in their hearts, not for the act itself because that is God's alone.


Gen 50:20 As for you, you meant evil against me, but God meant it for good, to bring it about that many people should be kept alive, as they are today.

As for a place called Hell in the Bible, where?
As for going anywhere upon death before either the first or second ressurection?


Pro 9:18 But he does not know that the dead are there, that her guests are in the depths of Sheol.

Ecc 9:5 For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing, and they have no more reward, for the memory of them is forgotten.

If it were any other way it would make both ressurection's less than usless!

 

[HighwayMan]

Even if Adolf Hitler really was "the most evil being that ever lived" (which is an American myth), I most definitely would.

Forgiveness is not given because people deserve it, it's given because they need it.

 

[HighwayMan]

So you, a sinful creature, believe that the Perfect, Righteous and Holy God is wrong to send people to the everlasting Lake of Fire because of their sin?!

Can't wait to see you try and justify that one on the Day of Judgement

Simonline.

Those words mean nothing if they are not backed by reason. And no sense of law or morality would justify such a God.

If God commanded I burn down and rape an orphanage, I, the "sinful creature", would most definitely not do it, regardless of how God describes himself. And accepting eternal hell is infinintly many times worse than that.

 

[martymonster]

Even if Adolf Hitler really was "the most evil being that ever lived" (which is an American myth), I most definitely would.

Forgiveness is not given because people deserve it, it's given because they need it.

Yes!

 

[Benoni]

Oh boy, so many answers that are unscriptural.

Let me give you a scriptural answer now and see how different it is from what mainstream Christianity says!

First of all some scripture.


2Ti 2:20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour.

Rom 9:17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.
Rom 9:18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.
Rom 9:19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?
Rom 9:20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?
Rom 9:21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
Rom 9:22What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:

Isa 10:3 And what will ye do in the day of visitation, and in the desolation which shall come from far? to whom will ye flee for help? and where will ye leave your glory?
Isa 10:4 Without me they shall bow down under the prisoners, and they shall fall under the slain. For all this his anger is not turned away, but his hand is stretched out still.
Isa 10:5 O Assyrian, the rod of mine anger, and the staff in their hand is mine indignation.
Isa 10:6 I will send him against an hypocritical nation, and against the people of my wrath will I give him a charge, to take the spoil, and to take the prey, and to tread them down like the mire of the streets.
Isa 10:7 Howbeit he meaneth not so, neither doth his heart think so; but it is in his heart to destroy and cut off nations not a few.

Isa 10:11 Shall I not, as I have done unto Samaria and her idols, so do to Jerusalem and her idols?
Isa 10:12 Wherefore it shall come to pass, that when the Lord hath performed his whole work upon mount Zion and on Jerusalem, I will punish the fruit of the stout heart of the king of Assyria, and the glory of his high looks.
Isa 10:13 For he saith, By the strength of my hand I have done it, and by my wisdom; for I am prudent: and I have removed the bounds of the people, and have robbed their treasures, and I have put down the inhabitants like a valiant man:
Isa 10:14 And my hand hath found as a nest the riches of the people: and as one gathereth eggs that are left, have I gathered all the earth; and there was none that moved the wing, or opened the mouth, or peeped.
Isa 10:15 Shall the axe boast itself against him that heweth therewith? or shall the saw magnify itself against him that shaketh it? as if the rod should shake itself against them that lift it up, or as if the staff should lift up itself, as if it were no wood.


This is how God operates, freewill? huh, I don't think so!

You see how God operates according to scripture?
He sets you up to do evil (I didn't say He makes you do evil, you are a sinning machien) and then He delivers you into you're enemies for punishment, for some that includes death and for some that includes seeing you're loved one's die in front of you while you yourself are spared (worse than death).
He then punishes you're enemies for the sin that is in their hearts, not for the act itself because that is God's alone.


Gen 50:20 As for you, you meant evil against me, but God meant it for good, to bring it about that many people should be kept alive, as they are today.

As for a place called Hell in the Bible, where?
As for going anywhere upon death before either the first or second ressurection?


Pro 9:18 But he does not know that the dead are there, that her guests are in the depths of Sheol.

Ecc 9:5 For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing, and they have no more reward, for the memory of them is forgotten.

If it were any other way it would make both ressurection's less than usless!

Awesome Post

 

[Benoni]

Do you really think God would say anything out of context? It's God's word, period. He says it, I believe it, that settles it.

/end sarcasm

Sure he would because the deep things of God are hidden by God. he hides them from the religous and reveals His deep secrets to those who have spiritual ears to hear. Most only want to follow the broad way religion.



[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif']2Th 2:11
(ALT) And for this reason God will send to them a supernatural working of deception, for them to believe the lie,

(ASV) And for this cause God sendeth them a working of error, that they should believe a lie:

(CEV) So God will make sure that they are fooled into believing a lie.

(CLV) And therefore God will be sending them an operation of deception, for them to believe the falsehood,

(DRB)(2:10) Therefore God shall send them the operation of error, to believe lying:

(EMTV) And because of this, God will send them strong delusion, in order for them to believe the lie,

(ESV) Therefore God sends them a strong delusion, so that they may believe what is false,

(Geneva) And therefore God shall send them strong delusion, that they should beleave lies,

(GNB) And so God sends the power of error to work in them so that they believe what is false.

(GW) That's why God will send them a powerful delusion so that they will believe a lie.

(ISV) For this reason, God will send them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie.

(JPS)
(KJ2000) And for this cause God shall send them a strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

(KJVA) And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

(KJVR) And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

(LITV) And because of this, God will send to them a working of error, for them to believe the lie,

(LONT) For this cause, God will send them strong delusion, that they may believe a lie;

(MKJV) And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie,

(Murdock) Therefore God will send upon them the operation of deception, that they may believe a lie;

(RYLT-NT) and because of this shall God send to them a working of delusion, for their believing the lie,

(The Scriptures '98+)And for this reason Elohim sends them a working of delusion, for them to believe the falsehood,1Footnote: 1Eze. 20:25, John 9:39, John 12:40, Acts 7:42, Rom. 1:24-28.

(Webster) And for this cause God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

(WNT) And for this reason God sends them a misleading influence that they may believe the lie;
[/FONT]

 

[Armistead]

Not one person will spend eternity in hell, not even Hitler.

Colossians 1:15-20
15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16 For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him.

17 And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist. 18 And He is the head of the body, the church, who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in all things He may have the preeminence.

19 For it pleased the Father that in Him all the fullness should dwell, 20 and by Him to reconcile (apokatallasso) all things to Himself, by Him, whether things on earth or things in heaven, having made peace through the blood of His cross.

How marvelous and how wonderful this scripture is! This is unquestionably and without any doubt, the full good news of the gospel of Jesus Christ. There is no bad news here whatsoever. Think about it! God will do what? God will reconcile ALL things on earth and ALL things in heaven through Jesus Christ having made PEACE through the blood of His cross.

Please note that the construct of the verses above is such that it leaves absolutely no room for any doubt whatsoever that the word ALL can only mean ALL without any exception. Apostle Paul. inspired by the Holy Spirit, repeats the word ALL seven times before coming to the key verse, verse 20, where it says that God will reconcile all things to Himself through Jesus Christ. If you believe verse 16 that Jesus Christ created all things in heaven, all things visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers, then you have no option but to also believe verse 20, which says that Jesus Christ will reconcile to God the Father the same all things, which He created.

You may find it shocking to accept the full truth of Colossians 1:15-20, which clearly states that God will not only reconcile all men unto Himself, but He will also reconcile all fallen angels. 'Thrones or dominions or principalities or powers' as given in verse 16 above, definitely include Satan and the fallen angels. The truth that God will even reconcile Satan and the fallen angels exalts God's power, wisdom, love, forgiveness and His justice to the full. As God tells us to overcome evil with good, He also does the same. (Romans 12:21) God will ultimately overcome all evil with good, so that the purpose of the sacrifice of Jesus Christ for universal reconciliation is fully accomplished.

1 Timothy 2:3-6 (KJV)
3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; 4 Who will have (thelo) all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

This is a powerful scripture as it stands, because God's will to save ALL people and have them come to the knowledge of the truth cannot be frustrated by man's freewill. This scripture becomes even stronger once we understand the primary meaning of the Greek Word thelo is to be resolved or determined as given in Strong's Concordance (Strong's Number G2309). Therefore, a better translation of this scripture is:

1 Timothy 2:3-6 (SLT)
3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; 4 Who has resolved and determined (thelo) that all men be saved, and come to the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

Those who think that God's will in salvation to save all people can be overridden by man's freewill, should take note of this scripture.

1 Corinthians 15:22-26
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive. 23 But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ's at His coming. 24 Then comes the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power. 25 For He must reign till He has put all enemies under His feet. 26 The last enemy that will be destroyed is death.

Only the false doctrine of hell prevents people from believing the obvious truth contained in this scripture. It is one hundred percent clear that the all who die in Adam is exactly the same all that shall be made alive in Christ, which means each and every human being that has ever lived including Adam will be made alive in Christ i.e. saved.

Romans 5:18-19
18 Therefore, as through one man's offense judgment came to all men, resulting in condemnation, even so through one Man's righteous act the free gift came to all men, resulting in justification of life. 19 For as by one man's disobedience many (all) were made sinners, so also by one Man's obedience many (all) will be made righteous.

These verses once again confirm the truth that every person, without exception, will be justified and made righteous through Jesus Christ.

1 Timothy 4:9-11
9 This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptance. 10 For to this end we both labor and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of those who believe. 11 These things command and teach.

Notice that it is a command from God to teach the truth that God is the Saviour of All People. How can God be the Saviour of All people and yet not save them ALL?

John 4:42
Then they said to the woman, "Now we believe, not because of what you said, for we ourselves have heard Him and we know that this is indeed the Christ, the Savior of the world."

Yes, Christ is indeed the Saviour of the world. How can He be the Saviour of the world and yet at the same time not save the whole world? Remember that Jesus died for the sins of the whole world. (1 John 2:2)

Romans 11:32
For God has committed them all to disobedience, that He might have mercy on all.

This verse refers to all people, Jews and Gentiles, who die as unbelievers. It is not God’s purpose to save all people before they die but only a few, His Elect. However, God’s mercy will prevail on all people, and ultimately in God’s time and His order, all people will be saved.

 

[LightHorseman]

infinite punishment for finite acts is unjust.

I believe Hitler needs to be punished for what he did, but that he will, eventually, atone for his actions.