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Addressing atheists without a strawman

d taylor

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Acknowledging God's rule over ones life is not a condition God's requires of a person, to receive God's free gift of Eternal life and become a born again child of God.

The only condition is to believe in Jesus. Now after the person believes in Jesus and enters into God's family as a born again child. Then as one of God's children God will discipline His children as they get out of line. So if the murder continues in a life of murdering. The the murder has a high chance of God taking this child's earthly life.
 
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Derf

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Are you really believing in Jesus if you're not willing to repent?
Acts 17:30 KJV — And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:
 
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d taylor

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Are you really believing in Jesus if you're not willing to repent?
Acts 17:30 KJV — And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:
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The question is do you understand what belief is. Here is what belief or faith is: It is the conviction that something is true. In the case of The Bible and God's free gift of Eternal Life salvation.

It is being convinced/convicted that God's promise that all who believe* in Jesus will receive God's free gift of Eternal Life salvation.

And at the very moment of belief in Jesus the person believing in Jesus becomes a pernamnet born again child of God.

*Now the question is what is believing in Jesus. What believing in Jesus is not, is believing that Jesus existed or that Jesus was a good teacher, etc.. these beliefs do not give a person Eternal Life salvation.

Believing in Jesus means to believe Jesus is who He says He is. Which is the promised Messiah/The Son of God, the resurrection and the life and that believing in this name about Jesus is what gives people God's free gift of Eternal Life salvation.

You need verses stating this.

But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name:

And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life.

For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.

For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.

“He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.”

“Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life.

Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believe in Me has everlasting life.

Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live. And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die. Do you believe this?”
She said to Him, “Yes, Lord, I believe that You are the Christ, the Son of God, who is to come into the world.”

but these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing you may have life in His name.
 
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Derf

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What does "the Christ" mean? Doesn't it mean "the Anointed One"? What was Jesus anointed for? Wasn't it to be king of the Jews, and by extension the whole world? Are you telling me that you can receive some as your king, but you don't have to do what he tells you to do? If so, then you aren't receiving him as your king, i.e., you're not receiving him.
 
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d taylor

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The only action (which is a passive action) Jesus tells a person to do to receive God's free gift of Eternal Life salvation and become a born again child of God is to believe in Jesus (Him).

Do not labor for the food which perishes, but for the food which endures to everlasting life, which the Son of Man will give you, because God the Father has set His seal on Him.”
Then they said to Him, “What shall we do, that we may work the works of God?”
Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent.”


If you do not want to believe what Jesus plainly states again and again and again. No problem with me believe what you want. I have done enough back and forths about this, so this is my last post.
 
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fhansen

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And yet there's something in man that is opposed to belief in God, and that "something" isn't merely ignorance, but pride. So disbelief is also based on a preference we have, to stay away from God and remain with the herd that prefers to deny Him, in part out of fear of others opinions, IOW, due to pride.. Belief in God necessarily puts us in a humble, childlike relationship or state towards God, and this is anathema to human pride. Pride's a killer, truth be told.
 
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Roman57

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And yet there's something in man that is opposed to belief in God, and that "something" isn't merely ignorance, but pride.

That is true. But the fact that it is one of the factors doesn't change the fact that it is not the only factor. The other factor is that God didn't present Himself in the tangible form. So, if we talk about someone tangible, like people we know, or various politicians, then nobody can deny their existence, pride or not. But if we are talking about something not tangible, such as God, then various psychological things, including pride, would affect whether a person would choose to believe.

Consider Cain, for example. Cain had a lot of pride, yet Cain couldn't deny God's existence because God presented Himself to Cain in the audible form. So the reason pride stops people today from acknowledging God's existence, yet it didn't stop Cain from doing so, is due to the fact that God was audible to Cain but not to people today.

Now, if you ask "why" God is not audible to people today, the answer is that it is His choice not to be (He could have made Himself audible if he chose to). Now, if you ask "why" did God chose not to, the answer is that He judges people people to be too sinful to be in His presence. And this brings us right back to the OP. That the root of atheism is God's withdrawing from sinners which, in turn, allows sinners to become non-believers too (unlike Cain, from whom God didn't withdraw for whatever reason).
 
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fhansen

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That was good, at least until the last paragraph IMO. Sin separates man from God because by and because of it we prefer not to have any God above us; we want to call our own shots. Enmity came from man IOW, not God, and God finally definitively proves that on the cross, proves that He loves man despite our sin.
 
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Roman57

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Sin itself can't make someone blind: we still see each other. The reason people become blind to God is that God chooses to hide Himself from them, in response to their sin.

Yes, God loves them. But God cant allow sin in His presence. Consequently, He distances Himself from them when they sin.

They still have a chance to come back to God: if they stop sinning then God would get closer to them again. But doing so is a lot harder since now they have to believe in things they have not seen (Hebrews 11:1), which they wouldn't have to do if they didn't sin on the first place.
 
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fhansen

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I think there’s more to consider, though. Adam & Eve hid from God immediately after they sinned, due to their guilt. But through Him “we live and move and have our being” (Acts 17:28). He’s already with us. In fact, Augustine would say, “I found you not, oh Lord, because I sought without that which was within.” Then, with the incarnation, He took on human flesh and dwelt among us; apparently He has very broad shoulders after all when it comes to human sin. Just some thoughts but maybe we’re hiding more than we know.
 
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HarleyER

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I would suggest your premises are wrong.

First, God loved everyone. His very essense is love.​
Second, mankind is evil. They love darkness more than they love light.​
Third, while God has repeatedly sent prophets and even His own Son, man left to himself will always reject the Son.​
God must bring into the heart of man a desire to repent.​

Without getting into too much detail other than what I've mentioned, man has a natural adversion to hearing that they are sinners and in need of repentence. And the ONLY reason we Christians understand this is simply because God opened our eyes and ears to hear the truth.

You can speak to a non-believer until the cows come home, but it is all in vain if God doesn't work in their heart.
 
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