Adam & Eve's sin

[Rawtheran]

How is it that Adam & Eve are said to have been created perfect, yet they were led to temptation by the serpent? Surely they must have had some inherent impurity for this to have happened?

Hello and thank you for posting this question hh92! First I would like to say that while Adam and Eve were created perfect they did not truly live in a perfect state. Wait, what? I know a major red flag but here me out. The reason that Adam and Eve did not exist in a perfect state is because in order to reside in a perfect state there has to be an absence of evil. The fact that Satan made an appearance in the Garden shows that evil existed even when God had created the Earth but that is because Satan and his demonic forces had been exiled from the Kingdom of Heaven after choosing to rebel against the love of God and try to set themselves above God's authority which they failed at miserably. Why did God allow all of this if he is a sovereign being? Well the reason is because God cold have created the world in a variety of ways but the only reality in which true love was possible was a reality where he gave the creation the freedom of choice. That choice being to accept having a loving relationship with God or to reject having a relationship with him. That choice was extended to Adam and Eve when Satan tempted Adam and Eve to eat the forbidden fruit. Satan did the only thing he really knows how to do which is to lie and it is most unfortunate that Adam and Eve chose to believe that lie rather than the Eternal promises of God. The great news though is that God chose to take on human flesh and incarnate himself in the form of Jesus Christ who chose to die for our sins and to restore humanity back into a right relationship with God. And the best thing? After the last human is born and the remaining prophecies have come to pass then God will judge Satan and there really will be an ultimate end to evil and a perfect state of existence. I hope that this helped to answer some of your questions!

 

[MoreQuestions]

Adam and Eve were created "good" but they were incomplete.

Should have made them complete. That would have simplified a few things.

 

[Aussie Pete]

Should have made them complete. That would have simplified a few things.

Then they would not have had free will to choose God or the other bloke. Would you like someone to force a spouse on you? What kind of relationship is that? God formed Eve but still allowed Adam to choose.

 

[MoreQuestions]

Then they would not have had free will to choose God or the other bloke. Would you like someone to force a spouse on you? What kind of relationship is that? God formed Eve but still allowed Adam to choose.

He could have made them complete and perfect, then given them free will after that. That way they would have made perfect choices and no-one would have had to worry about sin. Can you see any downside if he'd used that approach?

 

[MoreQuestions]

... First I would like to say that while Adam and Eve were created perfect ...

Can you have a word with Aussie Pete, please.
He said they weren't created perfect, only 'good'.
It would be nice to know which we are dealing with.

 

[MoreQuestions]

Then they would not have had free will to choose God or the other bloke. Would you like someone to force a spouse on you? What kind of relationship is that? God formed Eve but still allowed Adam to choose.

Didn't God force Eve on Adam?

 

[Aussie Pete]

Didn't God force Eve on Adam?

No. God first brought all the animals before Adam. None was found suitable. When Adam saw Eve, he said "That's more like it" or words to that effect. Adam chose.

 

[Aussie Pete]

He could have made them complete and perfect, then given them free will after that. That way they would have made perfect choices and no-one would have had to worry about sin. Can you see any downside if he'd used that approach?

Yes, there is a downside. If someone is biased in any way, then their will is being manipulated. Satan will do that but God will not. Adam and Eve had to be neutral. God explained the consequences of disobedience to a very simple command. Adam chose to disobey. He was not forced to disobey.

 

[ladodgers6]

I do not read the Genesis myth as a fall from an original state of perfection into sin and death. The first couple were completely innocent and naive creatures. They were certainly capable of making a mistake but, without knowing good from evil, they lacked even the ability to sin. That ability came only with them eating of the "Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil". To me the story is a "coming of age story". Our mythical first couple graduated from animal status into to fully self aware human beings capable of making moral judgements. This is not an Original Sin story but rather an Original Blessing story that should be celebrated. We are not a people fallen from an original state of perfection into sin and death.

Well Adam and Eve were created in perfect righteousness and a Free Will to choose how they wanted. God made a Covenant of Works with stipulations of Blessings (Reward) and Judgment (Curses). If Adam had kept this Covenant of Works with Perfect Obedience he would have merited Eternal Blessings with God and lived forever with God! Hosea 6:7 But like Adam they transgressed the covenant; there they dealt faithlessly with me.

Why the expulsion from Eden? In the mythology, I believe it to be symbolic that mankind was no longer a naïve creature living in moral ignorance but had become real men and women living in a real world where there was real good and evil.

Adam walked with God in the Garden-Temple. Adam talked with God. Adam knew what God wanted from him. They were not naive creatures. The serpent got them to think that they could become like gods. This pride was their down fall!

What we are is a people that is still evolving and that evolution has profoundly affected not just our bodies but our psyches as well. The world in which we evolved was a difficult and dagerous one and mere survival was of the highest priority. Selfishness became a part of who we are as a survival mechanism. This selfish instinct is no longer as necessary as in our savage past but it is still powerful. If there is an "Original Sin", this is it. Of course it is not a sin really but an innate part of our nature and it can be overcome.

The Fall effected, us, ALL; including the earth and all in it! Evil, Sin, Death is the result of OUR consolidation in the first Adam.

In the words of John Spong: "Every living thing, plant and animal is programmed to survive. What is true of all these living things is also true of human life. The only difference is that we human beings are self-conscious, while plants and animals are not. If survival is our highest goal, self-centeredness is inevitable and thus this quality becomes a constant part of the human experience. Traditionally, the church has called this "original sin" and has explained it with the myth of the fall. That was simply wrong. Survival is a quality found in life itself. There was no fall. Self-centered, survival driven, self-conscious creatures is simply who we are. There is thus no such thing as "original sin" from which we need to be rescued by a divine invader. So much of traditional Christianity assumes this false premise."

Nothing survives, death is inevitable; like taxes! This Pandemic demonstrates that total annihilation is possible! Everything in this life is temporary! Except God and his plan of redemption to save his people!

 

[Victor in Christ]

SermonAudio - Media Player

 

[BNR32FAN]

Now wait a minute it was the woman who was tempted by the serpent not Adam. Women are always causing problems just like when Pandora had to open the box. Same thing happened she unleashed all the bad things upon the world. Adam’s sin was listening to the woman, if he hadn’t listened to her we wouldn’t be in this predicament. That’s why Paul said in Ephesians 5 “wives subject yourselves to your husband” because we make all the best decisions. We don’t get tricked by suspicious looking serpents slithering around offering advice. I bet if the serpent tried to slither over to Adam to trick him he’d been all like “shut up, man I know what I’m doing”. But the woman, naw she’s like “oh really, wow I didn’t know that, DERP”!! Why do you think Paul said women should be silent in the church? I mean c’mon.

 

[Victor in Christ]

BNR32FAN, Adam and Eve in Genesis 3:14-15 and the seed which Christ our saviour would appear, shouldn't be viewed as the wife being insuperior to the husband, or vice-versa. Paul is talking about the order of human housholds in a practical manner like James instructs believers to practice out in their lives.

 

[BNR32FAN]

BNR32FAN, Adam and Eve in Genesis 3:14-15 and the seed which Christ our saviour would appear, shouldn't be viewed as the wife being insuperior to the husband, or vice-versa. Paul is talking about the order of human housholds in a practical manner like James instructs believers to practice out in their lives.

It was just a joke.

 

[Victor in Christ]

It was just a joke.

Fine. I like a joke too, but scripture is scripture

 

[Clare73]

How is it that Adam & Eve are said to have been created perfect, yet they were led to temptation by the serpent? Surely they must have had some inherent impurity for this to have happened?

Adam was not deceived (1Tim 2:14).
Fear of being separated from the human mate given to him, so important to him, and the only other human on earth, moved him to chose to be with Eve, and so he ate.

 

[Clare73]

Why were the two unique trees placed there in the first place?
Was it supposed to be some kind of test?

Precisely. . .just as Satan's temptation of Jesus in the wilderness was a test (Mt 4:1),
and just as all believers are tested (Lk 8: 13; Jas 1:2, 12; 1Pe 1:6-7, 4:12).

 

[Clare73]

I do not read the Genesis myth as a fall

And I do not read it as a myth, and am able to receive the doctrinal truth presented there.

from an original state of perfection into sin and death. The first couple were completely innocent and naive creatures. They were certainly capable of making a mistake but, without knowing good from evil, they lacked even the ability to sin. That ability came only with them eating of the "Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil". To me the story is a "coming of age story". Our mythical first couple graduated from animal status into to fully self aware human beings capable of making moral judgements. This is not an Original Sin story but rather an Original Blessing story that should be celebrated. We are not a people fallen from an original state of perfection into sin and death.

Why the expulsion from Eden? In the mythology, I believe it to be symbolic that mankind was no longer a naïve creature living in moral ignorance but had become real men and women living in a real world where there was real good and evil.

What we are is a people that is still evolving and that evolution has profoundly affected not just our bodies but our psyches as well. The world in which we evolved was a difficult and dagerous one and mere survival was of the highest priority. Selfishness became a part of who we are as a survival mechanism. This selfish instinct is no longer as necessary as in our savage past but it is still powerful. If there is an "Original Sin", this is it. Of course it is not a sin really but an innate part of our nature and it can be overcome.

In the words of John Spong: "Every living thing, plant and animal is programmed to survive. What is true of all these living things is also true of human life. The only difference is that we human beings are self-conscious, while plants and animals are not. If survival is our highest goal, self-centeredness is inevitable and thus this quality becomes a constant part of the human experience. Traditionally, the church has called this "original sin" and has explained it with the myth of the fall. That was simply wrong. Survival is a quality found in life itself. There was no fall. Self-centered, survival driven, self-conscious creatures is simply who we are. There is thus no such thing as "original sin" from which we need to be rescued by a divine invader. So much of traditional Christianity assumes this false premise."

 

[Clare73]

Hi all,

Thanks for your responses so far. I guess I'm just a bit confused by the whole thing really. Like I'm struggling to understand why God felt the need to create man, who would go on to sin despite being ignorant of the difference between good and evil, and would then fall into an inherent state of sinfulness only to be redeemed by God's grace and worship of God, the one who created them in the first place. To me it's kinda like having a child and then saying to it "I have created you, now be obedient to me and worship me otherwise you will be punished for eternity."

God doesn't "need" anything. . .

He chose to show forth his goodness and love in a plan of redemption.

 

[Victor in Christ]

Why were the two unique trees placed there in the first place? Was it supposed to be some kind of test?

the book of Job talks about 2 stars at the start of creation. One fell, (Satan), the other(Christ) who died on our behalf, rose and ascended to the right hand of the Father.

on a personal level....One (Satan-like) desires all the wealth of the world, the other (Christ-like) desires a heavenly kingdom, not of this world.

 

[Clare73]

It's a kingdom thing basically. God wants us to learn what happens as a result of rebellion against good order. His heavenly kingdom was torn apart by the rebellion of Lucifer. The sin of Eve and Adam mirrors that of Lucifer, and will infect the world from that point forward until it causes the virtual destruction of the earth and of humanity. God will then restore it, and after restore his spirit kingdom. It's a restoration project.

Acts 3:21
"Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began."

It's a "glory of infinite wisdom, infinite goodness, infinite justice, infinite mercy" project. . .