• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

Adam, eve, and Original sin

Aman777

Christian
Jan 26, 2013
10,351
584
✟30,043.00
Faith
Baptist
Originally Posted by bibleblevr

I have recently adopted TE as my view on creation.

Dear Bibleblevr, Uh oh. Now, you will have to change your Screen Name. Bible believers can easily see that Adam was made long BEFORE any other living creature. Genesis 2:4-7

It's YOUR time to show us WHY you reject God's Truth in order to believe in TE.

In Love,
Aman
 
Upvote 0

Cyara

Member
Jun 19, 2013
6
0
✟22,616.00
Faith
Agnostic
Marital Status
Private
I believe Adam is a personification of humanity, when they evolved from animals into beings who became self-aware. When 'Adam' became self-aware they would develop the knowledge of good and evil, and sin is born. Such an evolution wouldn't occure in a nighttime, but rather in thousands of years.


I don't think Adam was a real person, because recently, scientists discovered a Y chromosome in a man called Perry. His Y chromosome was so distinct from the "Adam Y chromosome" that his male lineage probably separated from all others about 338,000 years ago.

The first anatomically modern human fossils date back only 195,000 years, so Perry's Y chromosome lineage split from the rest of humanity long before our species appeared.
 
Upvote 0

enlightened1

Newbie
May 29, 2013
24
1
✟22,650.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married

Well, the first sinful act, even though there was no law against it, was the lie the devil told Eve, which she believed and became deceived by. But, the first sinful act that GOD could respond to (judge) was when Adam and Eve ate the 'forbidden fruit'. So, sin was already in the Garden before Adam sinned, but the LORD could not judge against it. But the truth is that Adam is the devil, and the first lie he told was the perverted commandment he told Eve was the truth, which commandment she regurgitated back to the serpent (who again is Adam, not a snake as myth would have it. Compare GEN 2:16-17 with GEN 3:2-3)
 
Upvote 0

Presbyterian Continuist

Senior Veteran
Site Supporter
Mar 28, 2005
21,968
10,837
77
Christchurch New Zealand
Visit site
✟867,272.00
Country
New Zealand
Gender
Male
Faith
Charismatic
Marital Status
Married

If what you say is true, we cannot have a Christianity. The Christian religion becomes meaningless, because there was no Fall, therefore Jesus was just another prophet. He did not take our sin upon the Cross, because there was no Fall, and therefore no sin. Mankind is what he has always been. He was originally created with an evil streak.

The Fall represents a change from man being sinlessly perfect, to a fallen creature with a sinful nature. To have that happen, we have to believe that Genesis is an accurate historical records of events. Adam and Eve had to be real people who disobeyed God and through their disobedience, sin and evil entered the world.

What you are proposing is a type of neo-theological humanism, that man has caused his own problems and can put them right by himself without having to depend on a divine Saviour.
 
Reactions: mark kennedy
Upvote 0
F

frogman2x

Guest

I beleive the first sinful act was when Satan and some angles rebelled against God(Ezk 28:16).

What makes you think Adam was the devil? Adam had relations wih his wife and produced a child. Angels cannot have children. That iss why they do not marry and are not given in marriage.

kermit
 
Upvote 0
F

frogman2x

Guest
<<

That is rehtoric. Where is your evidence?

kermit
 
Upvote 0
F

frogman2x

Guest

You need to go back to Gen 1:24-31. There you will findthat the animals and man were created on the same day, the 6th day.

kermit
 
Upvote 0

Aman777

Christian
Jan 26, 2013
10,351
584
✟30,043.00
Faith
Baptist
Originally Posted by Aman777

Dear Bibleblevr, Uh oh. Now, you will have to change your Screen Name. Bible believers can easily see that Adam was made long BEFORE any other living creature. Genesis 2:4-7

You need to go back to Gen 1:24-31. There you will findthat the animals and man were created on the same day, the 6th day.

kermit

Dear kermit, Not quite. The reference to the "creation" of Adam and Eve happened on the 6th Day BUT Adam was "formed of the dust of the ground" on the 3rd Day, the SAME Day the Earth was made but BEFORE the plants GREW.

The Earth was made the 3rd Day (Gen. 1:9-10) and the plants GREW on the SAME 3rd Day. (Gen. 1:12) Adam was "created in God's Image" or born again Spiritually on the 6th Day. Adam could NOT have been created in God's Image, or born Spiritually on the 3rd Day because Eve was not made until the 6th Day. Gen. 2:22

This places Adam in FIRST place and not in last as Godless Evolism teaches.

BTW, Genesis 1:28-31 is PROPHECY of events which have NOT yet taken place on the present 6th Day. They will NOT happen until AFTER Jesus returns to this Planet. Isaiah 11:7

In Love,
Aman
 
Upvote 0

gluadys

Legend
Mar 2, 2004
12,958
682
Toronto
✟39,020.00
Faith
Protestant
Politics
CA-NDP

I don't know how people come to such a ridiculous conclusion. If we look around us we see plainly that people sin. Therefore there was a Fall. Therefore we need redemption.

The Fall and the need for redemption from sin does not depend on whether one particular person disobeyed God one particular time. Had Adam not eaten the forbidden fruit it would simply mean the Fall did not occur in Adam's generation and it must have occurred later, in another generation.

But the evidence that there was a Fall, by whomever it was initiated, is all around us in the fact that all have sinned.





The Fall represents a change from man being sinlessly perfect, to a fallen creature with a sinful nature.

Let's be careful with our language here. To be sinless does not mean to be perfect (and scripture never describes humanity as "perfect" even in Eden.) To be sinless means to be innocent--without guilt.

The innocent person has not sinned, but is capable of sin.

Perfection is what awaits us in glory when the redeemed will be not only free of sin, but incapable of sin.




To have that happen, we have to believe that Genesis is an accurate historical records of events. Adam and Eve had to be real people who disobeyed God and through their disobedience, sin and evil entered the world.


No we don't. Since it is the factual existence of sin which is the basis of the need for redemption, it doesn't matter if Adam is a historical individual or not. Adam can be a personification of the whole human species which once knew innocence but incurred guilt. Real people did sin. That was the Fall, whoever they were and whenever it first happened.


Insisting that Adam had to be a real person for sin to be real and redemption necessary seems to me to be an evasion of responsibility for one's own sin. It avoids the real and present fact of sin and especially of one's own sin.
I need a Saviour because I sin, not because a historical Adam sinned. Everyone of us who sins needs a Saviour and would do so even if a historical Adam personally did not.
 
Upvote 0

holyrokker

Contributor
Sep 4, 2004
9,390
1,750
California
Visit site
✟20,850.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
If Adam is simply a representation of Mankind, we can see that Mankind sins and is separated from God, just as each person sins and is separated from God.

There is no need for the doctrine of Original Sin to explain Mankind's sin.
 
Upvote 0

SayaOtonashi

Newbie
May 19, 2012
1,960
81
USA
✟26,681.00
Gender
Female
Faith
Methodist
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Democrat

So genesis 2 is not speaking of the whole but of eden. Not the earth.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

SayaOtonashi

Newbie
May 19, 2012
1,960
81
USA
✟26,681.00
Gender
Female
Faith
Methodist
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Democrat

godandscience.org
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

SayaOtonashi

Newbie
May 19, 2012
1,960
81
USA
✟26,681.00
Gender
Female
Faith
Methodist
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Democrat
Hebrew is best to learn and not English.

He has remembered His covenant forever, The word which He commanded to a thousand generations, (Psalm 105:8)

Remember His covenant forever, The word which He commanded to a thousand generations, (1 Chronicles 16:15)

"Know therefore that the LORD your God, He is God, the faithful God, who keeps His covenant and His lovingkindness to a thousandth generation with those who love Him and keep His commandments; (Deuteronomy 7:9)


Notice this God had command his commands for a 1,000 years and most lived at least until 40. So 40,00

The Bible does give an idea of how many generations have lived under God's commandments. At least three verses in the Old Testament indicate that humans have been around for at least 1000 generations. Since a biblical generation is usually listed at 40 years, this would suggest that modern humans have existed for at least 40,000 years.
 
Upvote 0

greentwiga

Newbie
Nov 12, 2013
165
1
✟22,804.00
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
I have studied the passages very closely and have concluded that the Bible has no problem with life coming about through evolution. I have many points, but will give just three.

1) If a thousand years is like a watch in the night, then a 24 hour day is like 6,000 years. Notice the deliberate vagueness, 24 hours could be 1000 years or 6000 years.

2) Another much neglected verse is Gen 2:4. "These are the generations of..." First, the day in the verse covers all six days of creation, from the heavens and earth to man. Second, there are generations before Adam and Eve. The number of generation from the man of Gen 1 to Adam of Gen 2 is not stated. It could have been 3000 generations.

3) Adam of Gen 1 covers both men and women. It does not say that there was only one of each. Adam of Gen 2 is only the man. Eve is the woman. Adam is not a term used to describe the woman of Gen 2. Gen 2 clearly describes a location in Mesopotamia, while Gen 1 does not specify a location and could be East Africa about 70,000 years ago.

The Bible allows this interpretation, and therefore has no problem with evolution as currently stated, or if later Scientists word it differently.

I strongly en=courage you to use Gen 2:4. Only relying on saying the day could be longer than 24 hours is weak. The more lines of arguments you can field strengthens your point. Therefore, I state there were generations from Gen 1 to Gen 2

By the way, the accuracy of Gen 2 amazes me, and I am a scientist.
 
Upvote 0

Assyrian

Basically pulling an Obama (Thanks Calminian!)
Mar 31, 2006
14,868
991
Wales
✟42,286.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Upvote 0

SkyWriting

The Librarian
Site Supporter
Jan 10, 2010
37,281
8,501
Milwaukee
✟411,038.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Since a biblical generation is usually listed at 40 years, this would suggest that modern humans have existed for at least 40,000 years.

I only consider those under 20 to be "modern". 30 and 40 year olds can be pretty old fashioned. Some don't agree with gay marriage or legalized Pot. So, I say 40 years, not 40,000.
 
Upvote 0