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Adam and Evolution: A Reconciliation

Job 33:6

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What, you feign such superior knowledge and understanding ? Now ''you know nothing'' ...

I said if you show me the research you are referring to, I will explain. That is all. This isn't about me acting like I'm smarter or anything, I'm just following up on your comment.

Either you want to talk about the T-Rex or you don't.
 
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4x4toy

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I said if you show me the research you are referring to, I will explain. That is all. This isn't about me acting like I'm smarter or anything, I'm just following up on your comment.

Either you want to talk about the T-Rex or you don't.

Who am I to teach you, I'm just a fried chicken eating, Bible believing , born again Christian .. :wave:.. But not just the T-Rex but many examples from all over ..
 
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Steve Petersen

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facts.jpg
 
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Job 33:6

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Who am I to teach you, I'm just a fried chicken eating, Bible believing , born again Christian .. :wave:.. But not just the T-Rex but many examples from all over ..

If you want to cite a particular article, I'd be happy to talk about it. Otherwise, you are just presenting empty talk.
 
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4x4toy

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If you want to cite a particular article, I'd be happy to talk about it. Otherwise, you are just presenting empty talk.

Either you know about it or not, it is easy to find . If you use the line of reasoning that iron in the blood as excuse for preservation , I don't want you insulting my intelligence or me yours . It is what it is . If you don't know what I'm referring to , then you fall way short of the times and need to go back to your drawing board .. 10-4 ?
 
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Job 33:6

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Either you know about it or not, it is easy to find . If you use the line of reasoning that iron in the blood as excuse for preservation , I don't want you insulting my intelligence or me yours . It is what it is . If you don't know what I'm referring to , then you fall way short of the times and need to go back to your drawing board .. 10-4 ?

Are you unable to source your information? If you introduce a topic, you need to be capable of sourcing your information. Right now, I am in doubt that you have even read research on the topic youre discussing. Hence why I asking for its source.

So do you have research on these blood vessels? Or are your words just empty opinion?
 
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Halbhh

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Convince me that Adam had paternal and maternal grandparents, never mind about Eve but if you come up with something better than God , do hardly anyone believes Adam was a Neanderthal, yet many of us are aware that other types of humans have v existed as shown by bones.
We know what He taught.
We know He referenced Adam and Eve "from the beginning."
We know He referenced Able as a real person.
We know He referenced the flood as a real event, mentioning Noah by name.
We know He said in the latter days there would be scoffers.
I do not think that any theory of science trumps the word of God. I accept that the Bible tells the story of creation and that after that the species diversified.
I know there are Christian scholars who try to justify the mutually exclusive explanations for the origination of man, but one cannot believe in two opposing things without compromising them both. Evolution demands that adam never existed.

Many of us that believe God created all that is believe He created the laws of nature, because we believe He is the creator of all that is.

Did you get what I'm saying there? Because He is the Creator, He created physics!

We expect that His laws of nature -- chemistry, physics -- work well, function fine, because He made them.

Physics works, chemistry works -- without a need for constant effort from God we think.

So, since His nature already works, then it's only a question of when He intervened, and we only have the broad brush stroke description in Genesis.

It's important for any believer to realize Genesis chapters 1 through 3 are not about trivial history, but about profound things, like whether we trust God (Eve and then Adam failed to!), the the consequence of not trusting God. Just an example of the profound level of meaning in the text, written for us, to teach us crucial things.

Crucial things, not trivial stuff like precisely how old the Earth is, which is utterly trivial in comparison!

But you wonder if we believe in God!!??!! Here -- I believe God didn't have to make a special gravity to pull Earth together, because He made physics/gravity already, before the Earth, and it already worked. See?

Do I believe God made modern men? Yes. My belief is one of many diverse examples of how individual people believe in God the creator.

For example, just one example only of one person's view -- I believe God let nature unfold by His laws of nature, by His design, which He created, and it led to various human types, like Neanderthals. Neanderthals evolved over time through evolution by God's perfect laws of nature which He created.

But for us modern humans, there was an intervention, I think. Thus Adam and Eve.

Now, my view is not the only view any real believer has about details that are not in the text, like timing, and how Neanderthals arose, etc. It's just one view.

But, turns out that doesn't even matter at all.

We learn from Christ to never base our faith on some ideas, even doctrines (!), but that there is only one solid foundation for faith, and not any other --

24 “Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and puts them into practice is like a wise man who built his house on the rock. 25 The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house; yet it did not fall, because it had its foundation on the rock.
26 But everyone who hears these words of mine and does not put them into practice is like a foolish man who built his house on sand. 27 The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it fell with a great crash.”

Christ, our Lord. Matthew chapter 7

See, believing in any particular version of details about creation as a basis for the very foundation of faith itself is a foundation of "sand", Christ says to us.

The only "rock" that we should base our faith on, He tells us, is to hear His words and put His words into practice.

Not any other basis of any kind is sound. Not any version of creationism, not even any doctrines churches have, none of those. But only hearing and doing His words to us.
 
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4x4toy

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Are you unable to source your information? If you introduce a topic, you need to be capable of sourcing your information. Right now, I am in doubt that you have even read research on the topic youre discussing. Hence why I asking for its source.

So do you have research on these blood vessels? Or are your words just empty opinion?

I do but for your sake let's go ahead and call it empty opinion for now ..
 
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4x4toy

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Perhaps it would help to know that those believing that God intervened during the creation of modern humans -- those believing God made us, modern humans -- have a variety of ideas about the timing.

Many of us that believe God created all that is then believe He created the laws of nature, because we believe He is the creator of all that is.

We expect that His laws of nature -- chemistry, physics -- work well, function fine, because He made them.

Physics works, chemistry works -- without a need for constant effort from God we think.

So, since His nature already works, then it's only a question of when He intervened, and we only have the broad brush stroke description in Genesis.

God didn't have to make a special gravity to pull Earth together we are thinking, because He made gravity already, before the Earth, and it already worked. See?

Do I believe God made modern men? Yes. My belief is one of many diverse examples of how individual people believe in God the creator.

For example, just one example only of one person's view -- I believe God let nature unfold by His laws of nature, by His design, which He created, and it led to various human types, like Neanderthals. Neanderthals evolved over time through evolution by God's perfect laws of nature which He created.

But for us modern humans, there was an intervention, I think. Thus Adam and Eve.

Now, my view is not the only view any real believer has about details that are not in the text, like timing, and how Neanderthals arose, etc. It's just one view.

But, turns out that doesn't even matter at all.

We learn from Christ to never base our faith on some ideas, even doctrines (!), but that there is only one solid foundation for faith, and not any other --

24 “Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and puts them into practice is like a wise man who built his house on the rock. 25 The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house; yet it did not fall, because it had its foundation on the rock.
26 But everyone who hears these words of mine and does not put them into practice is like a foolish man who built his house on sand. 27 The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it fell with a great crash.”

Christ, our Lord. Matthew chapter 7

Science and natural law are created by God of which no person can claim credit or glory . God regularly intervenes in his supernaturally created natural creation supernaturally bypassing set laws of the natural creation according to his will or at our request and I am witness .
 
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Job 33:6

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I do but for your sake let's go ahead and call it empty opinion for now ..

Sure, but just because its on my mind, ill share a brief opinion on the matter.

http://pubs.acs.org/doi/pdf/10.1021/acs.jproteome.5b00675
How did scientists find soft tissue in dinosaur fossils?

posted is a link to another case of discovery of blood vessels of a dinosaur. If you take a look at the description, it sounds very much like what I am hearing about the T rex.

"Structures similar to blood vessels in location, morphology, flexibility, and transparency have been recovered"

upon further reading...

"after demineralization of multiple dinosaur cortical bone fragments"
" the acid demineralized the specimen. After seven days, the demineralization process revealed several unexpected tissues"

So, what has been discovered isn't like a fresh bone like you or I have. Rather it was fossil material with minerals precipitated throughout the bone. Mineral precipitation, depending on the mineral, doesn't happen over night and wouldn't happen in 6000 years inside a bone. To examine the blood vessels within these bones, the bones were treated in acids for up to a week to remove minerals that had precipitated through.

The follow up question to this is, even though this bone clearly isn't of a recently deceased animal, how is it that blood vessels might still exist? Well, if the bone isn't invaded by destructive bacteria or destroyed by their environment , there is no reason they couldn't be in part preserved by things like rapid burial and protected by the minerals that precipitate around them.

Blood vessels aren't build by radioactive material, they do not necessarily have a decay rate or time frame in which they must no longer exist.
 
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JacksBratt

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I believe Jesus was teaching to a people who had not made scientific advances.

Doesn't mean I do not believe in mankind's sinful nature and need for salvation through Jesus.
What on earth does scientific advances have to do with the fact that God told you point blank how He created everything?

Does God not live outside the confines of space, time and all the physical laws that He created?

Is the Genesis account, somehow, not within His capabilities?

He told us how He did it. Why do you have to go and look for some far more outrageous explanation?
 
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4x4toy

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Sure, but just because its on my mind, ill share a brief opinion on the matter.

http://pubs.acs.org/doi/pdf/10.1021/acs.jproteome.5b00675
How did scientists find soft tissue in dinosaur fossils?

posted is a link to another case of discovery of blood vessels of a dinosaur. If you take a look at the description, it sounds very much like what I am hearing about the T rex.

"Structures similar to blood vessels in location, morphology, flexibility, and transparency have been recovered"

upon further reading...

"after demineralization of multiple dinosaur cortical bone fragments"
" the acid demineralized the specimen. After seven days, the demineralization process revealed several unexpected tissues"

So, what has been discovered isn't like a fresh bone like you or I have. Rather it was a bone with minerals precipitated throughout the bone. Mineral precipitation, depending on the mineral, doesn't happen over night and wouldn't happen in 6000 years inside a bone. To examine the blood vessels within these bones, the bones were treated in acids for up to a week to remove minerals that had precipitated through.

The follow up question to this is, even though this bone clearly isn't of a recently deceased animal, how is it that blood vessels might still exist? Well, if the bone isn't invaded by destructive bacteria or destroyed by their environment , there is no reason they couldn't be in part preserved by things like rapid burial and protected by the minerals that precipitate around them.

Blood vessels aren't build by radioactive material, they do not necessarily have a decay rate or time frame in which they must no longer exist.

Did you see Mary's video under microscope, don't insult my intelligence with your mumbo jumbo . They hold a hot potato and know it and scramble like a cat covering up crap to disguise the truth .. :wave: .. I was born at night but not last night, then I have the Word of God going for me too .. Sorry at your complete fail again ..
 
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JacksBratt

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No one is saved by believing in anything but only God and the one whom He sent -- Christ, and never by believing some person's way of reading and making presumptions about time periods in genesis that some believers think is the right way, instead of another way some other believers think is the right way.

Those interpretations of all kinds, young Earth or old, are not a sound basis for faith, but Christ says that as a basis for faith that all such things are --

"sand".

Matthew ch 7
True enough... have you ever considered that we are judged by the company we keep? Then, ask yourself, how many atheists are Young earth Creationists? How many atheists make up the group pushing evolution?
 
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JacksBratt

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Evolution is science. I'm paid as a scientist, and one of the things I study is evolution. If it isn't science, then both I and my employers are badly mistaken

Evolution is not testable, observable or repeatable...... not science.
Evolution takes far more faith than Christianity. It's a religion.
 
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4x4toy

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True enough... have you ever considered that we are judged by the company we keep? Then, ask yourself, how many atheists are Young earth Creationists? How many atheists make up the group pushing evolution?

In the seat of mockers :oldthumbsup:
 
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Job 33:6

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What do you mean? I have not attached one to the article or the article itself doesn't have it?

The articles themselves. For example the one makes mention of a geologist dating it at 500,000 years (the geode) but then doesn't say who the geologist was or say anything about how they determined that age. Just kind of left with a bunch of empty questions.
 
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Job 33:6

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Did you see Mary's video under microscope, don't insult my intelligence with your mumbo jumbo . They hold a hot potato and know it and scramble like a cat covering up crap to disguise the truth .. :wave: .. I was born at night but not last night, then I have the Word of God going for me too .. Sorry at your complete fail again ..

Heres my response to the T rex blood vessel commentary.

http://pubs.acs.org/doi/pdf/10.1021/acs.jproteome.5b00675
How did scientists find soft tissue in dinosaur fossils?

posted is a link to another case of discovery of blood vessels of a dinosaur. If you take a look at the description, it sounds very much like what I am hearing about the T rex.

"Structures similar to blood vessels in location, morphology, flexibility, and transparency have been recovered"

upon further reading...

"after demineralization of multiple dinosaur cortical bone fragments"
" the acid demineralized the specimen. After seven days, the demineralization process revealed several unexpected tissues"

So, what has been discovered isn't like a fresh bone like you or I have. Rather it was a bone with minerals precipitated throughout the bone. Mineral precipitation, depending on the mineral, doesn't happen over night and wouldn't happen in 6000 years inside a bone. To examine the blood vessels within these bones, the bones were treated in acids for up to a week to remove minerals that had precipitated through.

The follow up question to this is, even though this bone clearly isn't of a recently deceased animal, how is it that blood vessels might still exist? Well, if the bone isn't invaded by destructive bacteria or destroyed by their environment , there is no reason they couldn't be in part preserved by things like rapid burial and protected by the minerals that precipitate around them.

Blood vessels aren't built by radioactive material, they do not necessarily have a decay rate or time frame in which they must no longer exist.
 
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Halbhh

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Science and natural law are created by God of which no person can claim credit or glory . God regularly intervenes in his supernaturally created natural creation supernaturally bypassing set laws of the natural creation according to his will or at our request and I am witness .

:) Yes, that's exactly right. I'm also a witness also of the laws of nature overridden by His intervention on a direct personal level.
 
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