Adam and Eve

[Umaro]

How is it that two people can populate the entire species? This also happens again after the Flood. No matter how I look at it, I don't think it can be done.

How did these people (and some mentioned later) live for over 900 years? Not even trees live that long for the most part.

Genesis 1:29 I think it is (could be mistaken) also says that before the fall, everything was an herbivore. Why then do carnivore species have the proper teeth?

While I'm in the area, why does Genesis offer two conflicting stories on creation? Surely both can't be right.

 

[Boltwave]

How is it that two people can populate the entire species? This also happens again after the Flood. No matter how I look at it, I don't think it can be done.

Actually Umaro that's not entirely accurate, if I can recall there where at least eight people aboard the ark, after the Flood it was eight people, not two.

Second, it's very possible, it's not like Adam and Eve had a kid once the other one matured, and beyond that, reproduction isn't linear, even then, you have to consider that if you do make it linear, it will populate over quite some time.

If Adam and Eve lived 900 years and had two babies every year, well, you can figure out the math in 900 years time:

900 x 2 = 1,800

That's 1,800 people in 900 years time, coming from two single partners, now imagine all of Adam and Eve's children, and eventually, how they reproduced, and being that even those results are based on an assumed constant rate, it's indeed possible for Adam and Eve to have populated the entire earth, even with the Flood.

How did these people (and some mentioned later) live for over 900 years? Not even trees live that long for the most part.

Creationists explain this as having something to do with their DNA, their DNA was so various and complex, but over time it began to lose and essentially deplete, which causes a shorter lifespan as the generations go on, technically not all of the descendants of Adam lived shorter after the other, which is actually why creationism still flourishes (being that not all genes lead to a depletion stage but indeed can "retrieve" some older characterisitics in the process of inheritance.)

Genesis 1:29 I think it is (could be mistaken) also says that before the fall, everything was an herbivore. Why then do carnivore species have the proper teeth?

You'll find in the first few pages in The Origin of Species that even Darwin explains this, it has to do with enviroment and adaptions, there's a chance it could be all wrong, but hey, who knows, creationism could be just as right as evolution.

 

[Umaro]

"That's 1,800 people in 900 years time, coming from two single partners, now imagine all of Adam and Eve's children, and eventually, how they reproduced, and being that even those results are based on an assumed constant rate, it's indeed possible for Adam and Eve to have populated the entire earth, even with the Flood."

The problem isn't the numbers, it's the offspring. There would be too much interbreeding and DNA would not have enough material and would eventually unravel so to speak.

"You'll find in the first few pages in The Origin of Species that even Darwin explains this, it has to do with enviroment and adaptions, there's a chance it could be all wrong, but hey, who knows, creationism could be just as right as evolution."

Wouldn't that mean Christians support evolution to at least some degree?

 

[Boltwave]

The problem isn't the numbers, it's the offspring. There would be too much interbreeding and DNA would not have enough material and would eventually unravel so to speak.

That depends, we could definetly theorize that Adam and Eve's genes were 'virus-free', and by the time the population became increasingly diverse amongst each other, then interbreeding would cause problems.

Wouldn't that mean Christians support evolution to at least some degree?

They do actually, modern-day creationism works on the observations of what they call "micro-evolution", in other words, the original created copies have enough variety in them to make up a large group of its sub-species, but not anything like a transitioning to another species, variation vs. speciation if you get what I mean, who knows really.

 

[Calminian]

Boltwave, I like most of your explanations. I think there's a number of ways you could work out the numbers for population growth. The Bible tells us that men lived longer even after the flood and had quite a few children. It's very easy to see how fast things can multiply. In fact if we've been here millions of years, it's seems there should be a lot more people.

Here's some articles that may be of interest to both of you.

Regarding the population:

Billions of People in Thousands of Years?

Regarding the long life spans:

Living for 900 years

Regarding intermarriage:

Cain’s wife

And regarding carnivorism and defense attack systems (DAS):

How did bad things come about?

This last article is of special interest to me. I think many overlook the significance of the Curse that occurred after the Fall of Adam. There were many direct acts of God recorded: the physical changes to the snake, physical changes to the ground and plants (now having thorns), physical changes to human women (now experiencing birth pain). Seems there were direct immediate creation modifications after the Fall. Regarding the snake, God said,

Gen. 3:14 And the LORD God said to the serpent, “Because you have done this, Cursed are you more than all cattle, And more than every beast of the field; On your belly shall you go, And dust shall you eat All the days of your life;

The "more than," seems to imply that other animals were changed as well, with the snake's being the most spiritually significant. It just seems that if God added thorns to roses right then and there, perhaps He also added stingers to bees and quills to porcupines to help them survive in the new world. Sharp teeth and claws may have had other uses for herbivores, but other DAS seem to have narrower purposes, like poison skin for frogs and lizards, electricity for eels and hot gas for bombardier beetles. I highly recommend the article above on this subject.

 

[CASEY82]

How is it that two people can populate the entire species? This also happens again after the Flood. No matter how I look at it, I don't think it can be done.

How did these people (and some mentioned later) live for over 900 years? Not even trees live that long for the most part.

Genesis 1:29 I think it is (could be mistaken) also says that before the fall, everything was an herbivore. Why then do carnivore species have the proper teeth?

While I'm in the area, why does Genesis offer two conflicting stories on creation? Surely both can't be right.

Hi,

when i first became a christian (2005) i asked the same questions? how could 2 people population the world, how could jesus feed 5000 on such little food, how could moses part an ocean? While i believed in god and had faith in him, i never really grasped that he is bigger than us all - why try to understand him and clarify him with our human minds - but thats just the thing...he is bigger than us..so how can we put him in our box of limited knowledge and understanding. I had a problem arise in my life where i had owned up to a past mistake and wanted to make it right - it was the last area of my past i needed to lay to rest. Unfortunatly it had to be resolved in a court room and every single legal advice i had told me there was no way i could walk out there without at least a conviction and community service and probation. I was terrified...everyone around me was telling me to have faith in god that he was bigger. Now i had faith in him and his plan for my life but with my human understanding i couldnt see how he could change the legal system, by law a federal charge must be recorded. That day i walked out that court room as i had walked in - no record, no service, no probation! when the judge gave the verdict everyone in that room was crying...people i didnt even know! i had a stranger say that u could feel god in that room. Just because ur human understanding cannot make sense doesnt mean god cannot do it!

 

[TexasGirl06]

How is it that two people can populate the entire species? This also happens again after the Flood. No matter how I look at it, I don't think it can be done.

How did these people (and some mentioned later) live for over 900 years? Not even trees live that long for the most part.

.

Hey Umaro.....
We are mere humans. We cannot expect to understand how or why God does what He does.....
except to know that He is God. He is all powerful.
And..it's all about Him.

They lived that long, because He wanted them to live that long.

...and that is how He caused for the population to grow.

He is so big.
We are so little.

 

[Boltwave]

Boltwave, I like most of your explanations. I think there's a number of ways you could work out the numbers for population growth. The Bible tells us that men lived longer even after the flood and had quite a few children. It's very easy to see how fast things can multiply. In fact if we've been here millions of years, it's seems there should be a lot more people.

Billions of People in Thousands of Years?

Actually, that's an excellent point, that does seem to be a real problem for evolutionism, I haven't heard them explain why the population is smaller than it really should be.

Even with epidemics and diseases, doing the math shows that a population grows very quickly, it doesn't take 20 years for a reproduction cycle to get going, as far as I'm concerned, I could be a father right now at this age, and that makes me shudder.

 

[Rafael]

Actually, scientists wonder why the human body doesn't sustain itself much longer than it does, as it appears ready to function much longer, instead turning at a certain point to death. With the devolvement of environment and DNA, as pointed out earlier, it is no wonder to me when we practically swim in our own carcinogin filth these days, ingesting bug and weed poisons with every drink of water, it is no wonder we struggle to only have an average around seventy years.
About population: Where's everybody at? "If humanity is really about 2.5 million years old (as claimed by Dr. Louis Leakey), creationist calculate from conservative population estimates (2.4 children per family, average generation and life span of forty-three years) that the world population would have grown from a single family to 10 to the 2700th power of people over one million years. The present world population is about 2x10 to the 9th power, an infinitesimal part of the 10 to the 2700th power." Just add them up....or subtract to find the better number given by the Bible. It gives us the approximate present population along with nations recorded in mn's short history.
Also, some theorize about the shroud of water surrounding the planet before the great flood because it never rained before the flood. What effect that would have upon the pefect man and woman's life span and the generations following can ony be theorzed. Adam, being the first man to fall into sin and death, was probably much stronger than any man we see today, coming from physical perfection into a state of death as the first where his body would start to devolve.

 

[Boltwave]

I'm hung up on something regarding creationism however: the tectonic plates of our continents, evolution does seem to explain how their movement (1 inch per year) would progressively shift they way they do now, then again, I did happen to see something VERY interesting in these pictures: http://www.mtblanco.com/ForSale/2006/ICAStones.html

How is it with all the flood myths, all of the stories about serpents and dragons, and even drawings, of dinosaur-like creatures, the descriptions in the book of Job with "behemoth scales" gets all discarded as a fairy tale and myth?

Sure, evolution would be "more down to earth", but now that I see it's many theotrical fallacies it's also starting to make less and less sense as we get further into the future.

Armaggedon kiddies.

 

[calidog]

Genesis 1:29 I think it is (could be mistaken) also says that before the fall, everything was an herbivore. Why then do carnivore species have the proper teeth?

While I'm in the area, why does Genesis offer two conflicting stories on creation? Surely both can't be right.

After the flood:
Gen 9:3 Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you; even as the green herb have I given you all things.



The two accounts are not conflicting. The second one is a further account. The first account is broad.

 

[Umaro]

"The two accounts are not conflicting. The second one is a further account. The first account is broad."

The two accounts change the order of things being created. See here for specifics http://sol.sci.uop.edu/~jfalward/creationcontradictions.html

 

[rocklife]

"The two accounts are not conflicting. The second one is a further account. The first account is broad."

The two accounts change the order of things being created. See here for specifics http://sol.sci.uop.edu/~jfalward/creationcontradictions.html

It seems you and this link are very easily trying to discredit the bible and not let it speak. It can be easily understood, especially if you look at several bible versions, that Genesis 2:19 isn't necessarily the order for when God made the animals, it is just saying they were made, that could easily and logically mean they had already been made. this author jfalward says he rejects that easily seen statement. I believe men can feel lonely even if surrounded just by animals. JFalward says Adam could not possibly be lonely surrounded by animals. We can see that people can even feel lonely in a crowd full of people.

I don't believe that is a scholarly website, even though it says .edu when I try to see if the homepage is some legitimate educational institution, it sent me to an aol member homepage. am I getting this wrong? or is this purposely trying to mislead? edu usually is from some educational institution I thought.

I hope you are seeking answers from christians umaro, and not just debating. peace to you.

 

[Yitzchak]

How is it that two people can populate the entire species? This also happens again after the Flood. No matter how I look at it, I don't think it can be done.

I'm not sure what your objection to this is. mathematicaly speaking it is not only possible but likely. Look at the population predictions for the next century. the increase in population increases in speed over time.

I read an article about a woman who was born in 1913. She had 16 children , 65 grandchildren , 260 great grandchildren and over one thousand great great grandchildren.........In only a hundred years two parents had become over a thousand. another hundred and they could becojme 100,000. It only takes a few hundred years for a few dozen to turn into millions.

 

[Yitzchak]

How did these people (and some mentioned later) live for over 900 years? Not even trees live that long for the most part.

I suppose we can only make theories about this. But from a scientific standpoint there are several explanations possible. The environment greatly changed after the flood. That alone could result in changes in the life span. Have you ever read about research with biospheres. People go and live in a big bubble with a controled environment and diet. Environment alone could easially prolong human life to at least 200. Not to mention the increase in diseases.

So environment alone can make a huge difference. Add to that internal changes in a human. I read about research on life span where they renewed the blood supply to a chicken heart and were able to prolong the life span 27 times the norm. Toxins in the system and espeacially the bllod stream speed the aging process.

 

[Yitzchak]

Genesis 1:29 I think it is (could be mistaken) also says that before the fall, everything was an herbivore. Why then do carnivore species have the proper teeth?

Maybe they asked before the flood , why herbivores had carnivore teeth. Humans eat both.

 

[Yitzchak]

While I'm in the area, why does Genesis offer two conflicting stories on creation? Surely both can't be right.

I don't see them as contradicting. you'll have to be more specific.

 

[Zeena]

How did these people (and some mentioned later) live for over 900 years? Not even trees live that long for the most part.

Sin in our bodies, sin controlling our bodies, is what kills the body.. Adam knew no sin until he sided with his wife's decision and ate from the tree of knowledge as well. He was fully accustomed to proper care for the body, hence it lived longer, being cared for in the manner God had intended, even in spite of sin, once found in him. Nevertheless, sin reigned! And Adam's body died!

While I'm in the area, why does Genesis offer two conflicting stories on creation? Surely both can't be right.

Expound upon this if you would, please.
As I'm not quite sure what exactly you are referencing.

 

[calidog]

"The two accounts are not conflicting. The second one is a further account. The first account is broad."

The two accounts change the order of things being created. See here for specifics http://sol.sci.uop.edu/~jfalward/creationcontradictions.html

checked your web site; how the "two" accounts are "changed" is beyond me????
Genesis makes perfect sense.

 

[Umaro]

" I'm not sure what your objection to this is. mathematicaly speaking it is not only possible but likely."

My confusion is because the mathematical equation isn't the only aspect. It completely ignores things like inbreeding, death rate spikes, and the most important, limiting resources.

As for all the requests on the creation question. This site lists them out exactly. The order of each creation is different in the two versions of the story.
http://www.holysmoke.org/bib-cre1.htm