Activist Judges

[butterfoot]

The ruling to ignore the First Amendment as well as the Alabama Supreme Court in order to impose his vision of God on the general populous comes to mind...

That wasn't a ruling more than it was a personall choice.

Think about the state of Alabama. First of all I live there and those people that ruled against the monument shot their political carrer if they ever run in Alabama. The ten commandments were used in the creation of United States law and regardless if you agree with were they came from you can't dispute the history of it.


-cw

 

[Corey]

That wasn't a ruling more than it was a personall choice.

Think about the state of Alabama. First of all I live there and those people that ruled against the monument shot their political carrer if they ever run in Alabama. The ten commandments were used in the creation of United States law and regardless if you agree with were they came from you can't dispute the history of it.

Okay. Please delineate what sections of each Article in the Constitution are based on the 10 Commandments.

Oh...that's right. You can't...because they weren't.

You lose.

 

[Lokisdottir]

That wasn't a ruling more than it was a personall choice.

Think about the state of Alabama. First of all I live there and those people that ruled against the monument shot their political carrer if they ever run in Alabama. The ten commandments were used in the creation of United States law and regardless if you agree with were they came from you can't dispute the history of it.


-cw

Okay, just because a few of the ten commandments also happen to be US law doesn't mean those laws were based on the commandments specifically. Things like "Do not kill" and "do not steal" have existed in basically every moral code since the beginning of civilization.

If US law is based on the ten commandments, why is it that I've never been arrested for coveting? I can covet all I want, and the police won't even turn their heads! I can even stand in front of a shop window, right in front of a police officer, and say "Oh, but I do covet that pair of shoes!" and what will he do? Nothing, except maybe look at me funny for talking like that.

I can worship other gods all I want, and law enforcement can't do a thing about it. Consider the words of Thomas Jefferson: "But it does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods or no God. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg." Way to uphold the first commandment, Jeffy.

How 'bout adultery? Cheating on your spouse is a pretty low-down thing to do, but you won't go to jail for it. Taking God's name in vain? I imagine saying "God damn it!" might have elicited more than a few gasps back in the late 1700s, but I don't think that was a jailable offense, either.

 

[butterfoot]

I never said that all of the commandments were used but I said based upon. Of course we ensure that each person can choose their own religion and we don't force God down peoples throat. But the majority of the Ten commandments were used in the creation of U.S. Law.

There are laws against adultery. Maybe you should do some research.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adultery

Here is some good reading too.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ten_Commandments

-cw

 

[BarbB]

That wasn't a ruling more than it was a personall choice.

Think about the state of Alabama. First of all I live there and those people that ruled against the monument shot their political carrer if they ever run in Alabama. The ten commandments were used in the creation of United States law and regardless if you agree with were they came from you can't dispute the history of it.


-cw

Unfortunately, cameronw, they won't run for office because they have a cushy job for life!

 

[Corey]

I never said that all of the commandments were used but I said based upon. Of course we ensure that each person can choose their own religion and we don't force God down peoples throat. But the majority of the Ten commandments were used in the creation of U.S. Law.

There are laws against adultery. Maybe you should do some research.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adultery

Here is some good reading too.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ten_Commandments

-cw

*sigh* There's no difference between "used" and "based upon," except the phrasing.

I'll note two things: 1) Adultery is defined at the level of state, not the nation, so it's not an argument for the US as a whole, which is what you stated. 2) Laws against adultery violate the first amendment...guess which part...it's not the establishment clause either.

 

[Nathan Poe]

That wasn't a ruling more than it was a personall choice.

A choice he would never have been able to act on but for his position as a judge.

Private citizens don't get to place 2-ton statues in courthouses...

Think about the state of Alabama. First of all I live there and those people that ruled against the monument shot their political carrer if they ever run in Alabama.

That's politics, not the law.

The ten commandments were used in the creation of United States law and regardless if you agree with were they came from you can't dispute the history of it.

Where were the 10Cs used?

And nobody's disputing the 10C as a historical influence; SCOTUS said as much in their ruling. But Moore explicitly described his monument as a religious icon, a smack in the face of the establishment clause.

 

[butterfoot]

Lets just look at this monument as a religious icon. The establisment clause gives the freedom of religion. Meaning that there is no state sanctioned religion. Where does it say from? Last time I checked Jews, and Christians both agree with the ten commandments. Muslims have a similar document that is close to the ten commandments. So tell me how is this a smack in the face of the establishment clause.


-cw

 

[Corey]

Lets just look at this monument as a religious icon. The establisment clause gives the freedom of religion. Meaning that there is no state sanctioned religion. Where does it say from? Last time I checked Jews, and Christians both agree with the ten commandments. Muslims have a similar document that is close to the ten commandments. So tell me how is this a smack in the face of the establishment clause.

If you're going to act that obtuse, it's not worth my time to have a discussion with you.

 

[butterfoot]

I am not acting as obtuse as liberal person who is pro-choice saying that a fetus is the likes of a parasite.


-cw

 

[ChristianCenturion]

And nobody's disputing the 10C as a historical influence; SCOTUS said as much in their ruling. But Moore explicitly described his monument as a religious icon, a smack in the face of the establishment clause.

1) Yes, SCOTUS's decision was loud and clear... it is only OK because our founding fathers allowed it back then - which implies that somehow, somewhere, someone made a ruling that it wasn't OK for today's Constitutional Democratic Republic. And the citizens' rights to address such an implied decision being made is where... ?

2) Establishment... wouldn't that require that it was not an established issue? I find that contradictory in light that SCOTUS ruled that it is OK based on the HISTORICAL... but then again, I have reservations of 9 people in black ruling over the citizens without accountability.

BTW - I don't particularly agree with Moore's method in the installation of the monument, but that is another matter IMO.

 

[HRE]

Lets just look at this monument as a religious icon. The establisment clause gives the freedom of religion. Meaning that there is no state sanctioned religion. Where does it say from? Last time I checked Jews, and Christians both agree with the ten commandments. Muslims have a similar document that is close to the ten commandments. So tell me how is this a smack in the face of the establishment clause.


-cw

It establishes federal preference for one religious belief (Abrahamaic monotheism) which goes against every test that constitutes the Establishment clause (Lemon test, anyone), regardless of how great a majority the Abrahamaic Monotheists are.

 

[ChristianCenturion]

It establishes federal preference for one religious belief (Abrahamaic monotheism) which goes against every test that constitutes the Establishment clause (Lemon test, anyone), regardless of how great a majority the Abrahamaic Monotheists are.

Could you please point me in the direction as to where I might find the 'lemon test' being ratified by congress? I can't seem to find where it falls under rule by consent or enacted by elected officials.
Thank you in advance.

 

[butterfoot]

Could you please point me in the direction as to where I might find the 'lemon test' being ratified by congress? I can't seem to find where it falls under rule by consent or enacted by elected officials.
Thank you in advance.

LOL


You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to ChristianCenturion again.

 

[blueapplepaste]

I am not acting as obtuse as liberal person who is pro-choice saying that a fetus is the likes of a parasite.


-cw

As a liberal who is pro-choice I find this to be very offensive! While I am pro-choice I am fiercely anti-abortion. I do not believe it is my place to say what a woman can and can't do. Don't presume to know what a liberal is and to throw all liberals into some self-serving, twisted, stereo-type.

Regarding the 10 Commandment statue, what bothered me about it was how defiant Moore was. After the other justices, appelate courts, attorney general all said for him to remove it he still refused; imagine the chaos that would ensue if people didn't follow a court's ruling because they disagree with it. A recipe for anarchy.

 

[butterfoot]

As a liberal who is pro-choice I find this to be very offensive! While I am pro-choice I am fiercely anti-abortion. I do not believe it is my place to say what a woman can and can't do. Don't presume to know what a liberal is and to throw all liberals into some self-serving, twisted, stereo-type.

While this thread doesn't have anything to do with abortion, my statement was based on the poster calling me obtuse. Then you say you are offended. Ok you say your liberal ok that fits. You say you are pro choice but anti abortion, I can't see how that is but ok. Did I say all liberals think that a fetus is a parasite? Nope so your offense is odd.

Regarding the 10 Commandment statue, what bothered me about it was how defiant Moore was. After the other justices, appelate courts, attorney general all said for him to remove it he still refused; imagine the chaos that would ensue if people didn't follow a court's ruling because they disagree with it. A recipe for anarchy.

While he could have done things differently ( I wish he would have so he would still be on the bench) he stood up for what he believes in.

-cw

 

[Archivist]

There are laws against adultery. Maybe you should do some research.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adultery

Yes, there are still laws against adultery in the US. However, the source you provided states the following: "In the United States, while a number of states still retain adultery laws on the books, they are rarely, if ever, enforced."

 

[ChristianCenturion]

Yes, there are still laws against adultery in the US. However, the source you provided states the following: "In the United States, while a number of states still retain adultery laws on the books, they are rarely, if ever, enforced."

let's not restrict it to only the criminal... don't forget civil law.

Have a good weekend guys and come back safe.

 

[butterfoot]

The point was is that they were there and at one point and time they were enforced.


-cw

 

[MoodyBlue]

While he could have done things differently ( I wish he would have so he would still be on the bench) he stood up for what he believes in.
-cw

So if somebody (let's say he just happens to be a judge) decides he has some sort of personal disagreement with a particular law, it's perfectly ok for him to ignore that law and do whatever he feels like. It's ok, because "he stood up for what he believes in"? No one is above the law, something a judge should understand better than anyone.