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Aclu Strikes Back

Rae, your response has no logical reasoning behind it whatsoever. This country was not founded by athiests, diests, and christians who were under dictatorship. Let me back up and say that you were half right in your response. Christans were the people who founded this country. It was because of dictatorship. There was no atheists or diests recorded as the people who discovered this great land. The reasons that the Christians came here was for freedom to worship without all the rules and regulations of the State Church. I believe that we have the right to have prayers at public schools and public places. If you dont like it then you are not being forced to say it. I bet you would be the kind of person with all do respect who would protest a person who ends a prayer using Jesus name. The most powerful name known to man. At his name demons tremble and are in fear because of his power. Our land although decaying because of corruption is still mostly a Christian nation. Many have turned from truth and are clearly deceived. I am glad that we have freedom of religion and not freedom from religion. I enjoy and count it an honor to be able to worship freely and be a Pentecostal Christian. We need more prayer and bible reading in our public schools and other public events.
 
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crazyfingers

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Here is something that James Madison had to say about separation of church and state. And given that he wrote the 1st amendment, I'd think that he knew what it meant.



Is the appointment of Chaplains to the two Houses of Congress consistent with the Constitution, and with the pure principle of religious freedom? In strictness the answer on both points must be in the negative. The Constitution of the U. S. forbids everything like an establishment of a national religion.

The law appointing Chaplains establishes a religious worship for the national representatives, to be performed by Ministers of religion, elected by a majority of them; and these are to be paid out of the national taxes. Does not this involve the principle of a national establishment, applicable to a provision for a religious worship for the Constituent as well as of the representative Body, approved by the majority, and conducted by Ministers of religion paid by the entire nation?

The establishment of the chaplainship to Congs is a palpable violation of equal rights, as well as of Constitutional principles: The tenets of the chaplains elected [by the majority shut the door of worship agst the members whose creeds & consciences forbid a participation in that of the majority. To say nothing of other sects, this is the case with that of Roman Catholics & Quakers who have always had members in one or both of the Legislative branches. Could a Catholic clergyman ever hope to be appointed a Chaplain! To say that his religious principles are obnoxious or that his sect is small, is to lift the evil at once and exhibit in its naked deformity the doctrine that religious truth is to be tested by numbers or that the major sects have a tight to govern the minor.

Better also to disarm in the same way, the precedent of Chaplainships for the army and navy, than erect them into a political authority in matters of religion. The object of this establishment is seducing; the motive to it is laudable. But is it not safer to adhere to a right principle, and trust to its consequences, than confide in the reasoning however specious in favor of a wrong one. Look thro' the armies & navies of the world, and say whether in the appointment of their ministers of religion, the spiritual interest of the flocks or the temporal interest of the Shepherds, be most in view: whether here, as elsewhere the political care of religion is not a nominal more than a real aid. If the spirit of armies be devout, the spirit out of the armies will never be Less so; and a failure of religious instruction &, exhortation from a voluntary source within or without, will rarely happen: if such be not the spirit of armies, the official services of their Teachers are not likely to produce it. It is more likely to flow from the labours of a spontaneous zeal. The armies of the Puritans had their appointed Chaplains; but without these there would have been no lack of public devotion in that devout age.


Religious proclamations by the Executive [president]recommending thanksgivings & fasts are shoots from the same root with the legislative acts reviewed. Altho' recommendations only, they imply a religious agency, making no part of the trust delegated to political rulers. The objections to them are:
  1. that Govts ought not to interpose in relation to those subject to their authority but in cases where they can do it with effect. An advisory Govt is a contradiction in terms.[*]The members of a Govt as such can in no sense, be regarded as possessing an advisory trust from their Constituents in their religious capacities. They cannot form an ecclesiastical Assembly, Convocation, Council, or Synod, and as such issue decrees or injunctions addressed to the faith or the Consciences of the people. In their individual capacities, as distinct from their official station, they might unite in recommendations of any sort whatever, in the same manner as any other individuals might do. But then their recommendations ought to express the true character from which they emanate.
  2. They seem to imply and certainly nourish the erronious idea of a national religion. The idea just as it related to the Jewish nation under a theocracy, having been improperly adopted by so many nations which have embraced Xnity, is too apt to lurk in the bosoms even of Americans, who in general are aware of the distinction between religious & political societies. The idea also of a union of all to form one nation under one Govt in acts of devotion to the God of all is an imposing idea. But reason and the principles of the Xn religion require that all the individuals composing a nation even of the same precise creed & wished to unite in a universal act of religion at the same time, the union ought to be effected thro' the intervention of their religious not of their political representatives. In a nation composed of various sects, some alienated widely from others, and where no agreement could take place thro' the former, the interposition of the latter is doubly wrong:
  3. The tendency of the practice, to narrow the recommendation to the standard of the predominant sect. The Ist proclamation of Genl Washington dated Jany 1. 1795 recommending a day of thanksgiving, embraced all who believed in a supreme ruler of the Universe." That of Mr. Adams called for a Xn worship. Many private letters reproached the Proclamations issued by J. M. for using general terms, used in that of Presit W--n; and some of them for not inserting particulars according with the faith of certain Xn sects. The practice if not strictly guarded naturally terminates in a conformity to the creed of the majority and a single sect, if amounting to a majority.
  4. The last & not the least objection is the liability of the practice to a subserviency to political views; to the scandal of religion, as well as the increase of party animosities. Candid or incautious politicians will not always disown such views. In truth it is difficult to frame such a religious Proclamation generally suggested by a political State of things, without referring to them in terms having some bearing on party questions. The Proclamation of Pres: W. which was issued just after the suppression of the Insurrection in Penna and at a time when the public mind was divided on several topics, was so construed by many. Of this the Secretary of State himself, E. Randolph seems to have had an anticipation.
Source
 
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Philosoft

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JEREMY O'ROURKE said:
Philosoft, I said nothing about making Christianity the official religion. I know there would be things that you and others would disagree with. That would be total chaos. If you think about it.
I know. I have.
The fact is that this was founded as a Christian country.
Ignoring the fact that this statement flies in the face of your above statements, not to mention history, what does it mean to be a "Christian country"? Does that mean there are only Christians in it? No, that's obviously not true about the US. Was it founded by Christians? Mostly, although Jefferson, Madison, Paine and Franklin are pretty much undeniable examples of deists, or at least non-traditional Christians. Does it mean Christians get preferential treatment? Not according to the very Christians who formulated the right-enumerating documents we are governed by.

Help me out, I'm running out of ideas here. What is a "Christian country" insofar as it describes the US?
The American Criminal Liberties Union has attacked Christianity in many ways taking prayer out of schools.
Argh. I almost never raise my voice, but you seem to leave me no alternative.

NO. ONE. HAS. TAKEN. PRAYER. OUT. OF. SCHOOLS.

If you give it a femtosecond's thought apart from your persecution complex, you would realize it's impossible even to do so.

Is that clear enough?
They seem hostile to any expression of religion whatsoever.
The ACLU probably files 10 times more lawsuits intended to protect religious freedom than to inhibit it. Look it up.
Things have become politically correct to the point you almost have no religious freedom at all any more.
I am about to give up.
 
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Megachihuahua

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O.K. , it says congress shall make no law... establishment of religon. That means DIS-, too. The Framers liked the religous situation exactly the way it was. Get it? No? To bad, you're already brainwashed.
 
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crazyfingers

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Originally Posted By: Totally Transformed

It's not surprising to me that those on the left, or those who disagree with
Barton would try to discredit him. I have looked at one of your links and I will wait for a response from his web site.


Any response yet from Barton's website on his use of fabricated quotes?
 
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