Accepting wine at Communion....

[Mulutka]

As always, I have a somewhat silly question....

I don't drink wine at church because I don't want to get others germs... I realize that I probably sound really paranoid but honesty, I've been sick for the past month and not only do I not want to get someone else's germs, I don't want to get anyone else sick.

So here's my question...
Can I dip the Euchrist into the wine?? I've never seen this at Catholic Mass... a non-denomination church I used to go to did it though.. but I've never seen it done anywhere else. Does any one have some suggestions? (or should I just 'get over it' and drink from the cup?).

Also, I've noticed that an overwhelming amount of people at my church don't even bother with the wine... but isn't the wine as sacred as the Euchrist?

 

[KC Catholic]

As always, I have a somewhat silly question....

I don't drink wine at church because I don't want to get others germs... I realize that I probably sound really paranoid but honesty, I've been sick for the past month and not only do I not want to get someone else's germs, I don't want to get anyone else sick.

So here's my question...
Can I dip the Euchrist into the wine?? I've never seen this at Catholic Mass... a non-denomination church I used to go to did it though.. but I've never seen it done anywhere else. Does any one have some suggestions? (or should I just 'get over it' and drink from the cup?).

Also, I've noticed that an overwhelming amount of people at my church don't even bother with the wine... but isn't the wine as sacred as the Euchrist?

Don't dip the host in the wine. You do not have to consume the wine if you don't care to. We believe that Christ is fully present in both species, so if you choose to skip the wine that's fine.

 

[nyj]

Can I dip the Euchrist into the wine??

No. Please, do not do this.

I've never seen this at Catholic Mass...

And for good reason. It's called "self-communication" and is forbidden in the Catholic Church.

Besides, what's the point of dipping the Eucharist into the Blood of Christ if you're afraid of getting germs. The germs can survive in the Blood about as easy as they can on the lip of the chalice. Even more so since the chalice is wiped clean everytime someone partakes of it.

Also, I've noticed that an overwhelming amount of people at my church don't even bother with the wine... but isn't the wine as sacred as the Euchrist?

First, it's not wine. It's the Blood of Christ. And yes, it is as sacred as the Eucharist. The Church teaches that for Holy Communion, you can partake of one, or both, as you see fit. They are both equally the Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Jesus Christ.

 

[WesleyJohn]

.

 

[Mulutka]

Wow! Good thing I asked!!!

I had no idea there was a thing called, "self-communication"... but then again, I've only just recently returned to the Catholic Church. I think I'm really going to have to start understanding the differences between Catholic and Protestant beliefs, in regards to the actual celebration of the Body and of the Blood....

I really hope I didn't offend anyone here. I really was asking out of complet innocence.

 

[thereselittleflower]

Never! You cannot offend with honest questions! Please keep asking - I have learned so much from other people's questions!


Peace in Him!

 

[nyj]

If I may ask a question...

I was under the belief that wine had an antiseptic quality which prevented the passing of germs. Does anyone know if this is true?

Wine has a low alcohol content. It won't kill all bacterium, especially in the short period of time between communicants.

I think you might be able to take my word for it... I'm a microbiologist.

 

[WesleyJohn]

.

 

[frcorey]

Wine has a low alcohol content. It won't kill all bacterium, especially in the short period of time between communicants.

I think you might be able to take my word for it... I'm a microbiologist.

the altar wine we use is 18% alcohol, err, before it becomes the blood, not sure of it's propertys after.

 

[nyj]

the altar wine we use is 18% alcohol, err, before it becomes the blood, not sure of it's propertys after.

Well, the accidents will remain after the consecration, so it'll be 36 proof Blood. [I don't mean to make light of the situation].

In one study, a series of gram-negative bacterium (E.coli 0157:H7... the "Jack in the Box" strain) did not survive in media containing 12% ethanol. But that was in cultures after 24 hours. They all survived, quite well actually, in media containing 6% ethanol. The 18%, given a long period of time, would probably work as a disinfectant (though in the lab we use nothing short of 50% to clean our lab benches after a biological spill) but given the short period of time between people partaking, I don't think it'd kill everything that might be ummm... back-washed.

 

[WesleyJohn]

.

 

[nyj]

Would it not remain at 18%, since the accidents remain the same?

(Did I get that right?)

Yes, that is correct.

 

[KennySe]

Mulutka, hi again.

I want to share a bit about "self communication", with a story I've told before.

The priest presents the Eucharist to himself at Mass. He self-communicates.

You may have lay persons who assit with the distribution of Holy Eucharist. These are often called erroneously Eucharistic Ministers. In truth, the PRIEST is a Eucharistic Minister.
The laity persins who assist ar eproperly entitled "Extraordinary ministers". It is out of the ordinary, that IF the priest needs assistance, there are laity that may be given this task.

Ok. Now for the local story.

I was at Mass. And the extraordinary ministers went onto the altar to receive Holy Eucharist, and then to receive their portions to go distribute.

The priest was communicating Eucharist to those extraordinay ministers on the right and then left sides of the altar. And the deacon was then handing to them their Eucharistic "plates" or "cups.

One female extraordinary minister got upon the altar AFTER the priest had communicated the right side, and was now communicating the left side. (The woman stood on the right side.)

The priest then saw her and handed her a cup, to take to the people. And she whispered something to her. (Probably that she had not yet received Holy Eucharist.) And I saw him offer her the Holy Eucharist, which she accepted directly upon her tongue. And she was still holding the cup.

She then was raising the cup to her own lips.

And the priest stopped her. She was about to self-communicate.

The priest took the cup from her. he said to her "The Blood of Christ." She said 'Amen" and then she drank.
He gave her the cup, to take to her station in the church building.

(I watched the whole episode. It was not a "big deal" to anyone else; i doubt that anyone else even noticed this.)

***

Now, you may see some laity go up on the altar and receive little metal boxes from the priest. These boxes are called }pyx", and they are proper containers to transport Holy Eucharist from the church to the sick, for instance. And that extraordinary minister has the duty to present the Eucharist to the sick.
But, that extraordinary minister does not have the authority to self-communicate, not even from that pyx.

 

[nyj]

But, that extraordinary minister does not have the authority to self-communicate, not even from that pyx.

Hmm, now this is where I think things get a bit technical. For instance, if you believe you are going to be giving the Holy Eucharist to four sick and/or homebound and only three are able to receive (either they are not awake, ill to the point of being unable to receive, etc) you (as the Extraordinary Minister) are allowed to receive that host. At least, that was what I was told to do in those circumstances. Now, that is, I think, a bit different from self-communicating, as you're not presenting it to yourself for your daily Communion, but that is the proper way to handle that Host... because you certainly can't pitch it.

*NOTE: I no longer serve as an Extraordinary Minister because I find the whole situation, me as a layman handling the Eucharist, to be very disconcerting. If I were to ever deliver Holy Communion to the sick again, it would be to family and family alone.

 

[KennySe]

nyj knows more than I about the EMs duties.

What I was meaning is that an EM was not to take the Eucharist in the pyx, for the exact purpose that the Eucharist inside is for him/her.

 

[pax]

I think the technical term for dipping the host in the precious blood is intinction. Self-intinction is not allowed in the Catholic Church, but in the Eastern Rites it is the norm to receive the Eucharist from a golden spone which holds both of the Eucharistic species. In the Roman Rite, I believe intinction by the priest is allowed and he presents the host to the communion using the formula, "The Body and Blood of Christ," and the communicant responds, "Amen." In this situation the communicant must receive on the tounge so as not to have remnants of the precious blood on his/her hands. If you like, I can look for the exact citation in the GIRM later.

 

[John the Engineer]

I hate to point this out, but bacteria on the rim of the chalice will not be "wiped away" as easily as that. Speaking from a medical point of view, what is being done is quite dangerous. Now some might argue that alcohol will kill it, but simply put, it won't act that fast, even if it's straight alcohol you're still looking at a time frame for the bacteria to be killed.

They did a study and found out that if the pitcher used to fill water at a restaurant contacts the LIP of the cup of water of a sick person, that bacteria picked up in that instant can be passed to every other cup of water that it touches as the waiter (or waitress) fills the other cups around the restaurant.

I don't know why people would skip it for religious reasons, but medically speaking you're not talking about a sound practice. But bear in mind that God does protect his children, and thus some might say you trust in the Lord.

Just my two cents about it. Especially considering I just had a really nice glass of wine

 

[nyj]

What I was meaning is that an EM was not to take the Eucharist in the pyx, for the exact purpose that the Eucharist inside is for him/her.

You're quite correct.

I hate to point this out, but bacteria on the rim of the chalice will not be "wiped away" as easily as that.

I didn't say they would all be "wiped away", but manual "scrubbing" of the lip of the chalice by the purificator will reduce the amount of bacteria present on the lip of the chalice. For some bacteria, maybe ten bacterium is enough to cause disease, for some it needs to be a hundred, for others a thousand or more. Wiping the lip of the chalice clean between sips can be the determining factor in someone getting sick and someone not getting sick.

 

[Mulutka]

Please excuse my ignorance, but what does "GIRM" stand for??

If the same cloth is being used to wipe the chalice, then the bacteria on the cloth (from other wipes) is also being transmitted to the chalice again... isn't it? (Have I lost you guys?)

May be I'm being too technical though.

 

[KC Catholic]

The General Instruction of the Roman Missal (GIRM). Its the instruction manual on how things are to proceed during the Mass, etc. I think if you are really concerned with illness that just receiving the Body of Christ would work - since Christ is present under both species.