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Accepting Christ
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AngelusSax
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I thought the Lutheran position was not one of belief not being given (as that would lend to double-predestination), but that faith is sometimes rejected when given, for whatever reason. Could be wrong, though.
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Calvinists want to answer with one answer:
Why are some saved and some are not? God chooses some to go to heaven and some to go to hell.
Arminians want to answer with one answer:
Why are some saved and some are not? The person chooses to go to heaven or hell.
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For Lutherans, the question becomes:
How does one end up in heaven? God works faith in the persons heart
How does one end up in hell? Person continues in the sin and chooses based on that sin.
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- Nov 14, 2009
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Hey Robertz 
Can I suggest something? I think this could help you A LOT it helped me...there is a thread in this forum (sorry..don't have enough posts to link) it says something like "if I wasn't Lutheran before" there is a link in the first post to a essay called Sola Fide: Luther And Calvin
Its amazing! read it I think it could help.
Can I suggest something? I think this could help you A LOT it helped me...there is a thread in this forum (sorry..don't have enough posts to link) it says something like "if I wasn't Lutheran before" there is a link in the first post to a essay called Sola Fide: Luther And CalvinIts amazing! read it
I think it could help.
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Decision Theology = Ex Opere Operato
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Hey Robertz
Its amazing! read it
/gives SFC a boost
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Ortho_Cat
Orthodox Christian
Is this view unique to Lutherans?
So everyone is an adopted child of God, but some just don't know it yet? How can anyone go to hell then if they all are "sons of God"? If all aren't sons of God, then this seems to me like predestination; that is, there are some that Christ chooses to save, and some that he doesn't.
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The label that gets applied to this soteriology is Monergism.
Reformed theology is also Monergistic, and frankly they sometimes seem to have co-opted the concept, (i.e. the entry on Monergism at WP, and the whole Monergism.com thing), but instead of staying within boundaries of scripture, they go on to exceed scripture with the doctrines of double predestination, limited atonement, etc. Lutherans have been Monergistic since the beginning, but stay within the boundaries of scriptural revelation, and beyond that we must confess that we simply do not know.
The bible clearly teaches that God desires for all to be saved. It clearly teaches that God does the saving without any input from us - that we are not capable of having any effective input. It clearly teaches that not all will be saved. It clearly teaches that those who are lost actively reject God's grace.
Lutherans believe that the unregenerate will is bound to sin and cannot chose to be saved. Once a person is regenerated, however, they can choose to reject their salvation. God gets 100% of the glory for our salvation, and the lost get 100% of the blame for their damnation.
What about those who never hear the Gospel? Romans 1. God has revealed himself to the world from the beginning. They are without excuse.
Reformed theology is also Monergistic, and frankly they sometimes seem to have co-opted the concept, (i.e. the entry on Monergism at WP, and the whole Monergism.com thing), but instead of staying within boundaries of scripture, they go on to exceed scripture with the doctrines of double predestination, limited atonement, etc. Lutherans have been Monergistic since the beginning, but stay within the boundaries of scriptural revelation, and beyond that we must confess that we simply do not know.
The bible clearly teaches that God desires for all to be saved. It clearly teaches that God does the saving without any input from us - that we are not capable of having any effective input. It clearly teaches that not all will be saved. It clearly teaches that those who are lost actively reject God's grace.
Lutherans believe that the unregenerate will is bound to sin and cannot chose to be saved. Once a person is regenerated, however, they can choose to reject their salvation. God gets 100% of the glory for our salvation, and the lost get 100% of the blame for their damnation.
What about those who never hear the Gospel? Romans 1. God has revealed himself to the world from the beginning. They are without excuse.
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AngelusSax
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So how does that juxtapose against the statement (sorry I must paraphrase) that faith comes by hearing (the Word), and how can they hear without a preacher?
If no one preaches to someone, how do they hear in order to have faith come unto them? (Not trying to disprove, just pointing out what seems to be an obvious tension in the Bible which I'm sure leaves a nice grey area for us to live in).
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They can't. We are, from the moment of conception, destined for eternity in hell.
There are three types of people in the world:
Those who have heard the Gospel and acknowledge their God-given faith and that Christ has died for their salvation. These are believers and are saved.
Those who have heard the Gospel but actively reject it. These are unbelievers and are lost.
Those who have not yet heard the Gospel and thus cannot believe in what they have not heard. These, too, would be lost. This is why the proclamation of the Gospel to all nations is so vitally important.
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Yeah, people have been wondering that for a long time. There seems to be a clear answer in scripture, but it's not a very pretty answer.
It seems we must take God at his word. Maybe he has a plan he hasn't revealed to us, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't do everything we can to make sure as many people as possible do hear.
The Lutheran Church - Missouri Synod - Fate of Non-Hearers
It seems we must take God at his word. Maybe he has a plan he hasn't revealed to us, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't do everything we can to make sure as many people as possible do hear.
The Lutheran Church - Missouri Synod - Fate of Non-Hearers
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We receive faith by God's grace through means; the hearing of the Gospel and receiving the Sacraments. God feeds and strengthens our faith through those same means. Yet we are able to reject it.
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No. Prayer is a result of faith. Faith comes from God to us by grace through sacramental means. Prayer comes from us to God as a sacrificial means of worship. Faith does not come through sacrifice.
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Ortho_Cat
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"Lord I believe, help my disbelief" rather than being a prayer of worship, it is a call to God for an increase in faith. Is such a prayer appropriate according to Lutheran tradition?
Also, if faith is received solely by sacrament, then how is it possible for one to reject the faith, given that they are participating in the sacraments? (by sacraments, I assume you mean baptism and communion)
Also, if faith is received solely by sacrament, then how is it possible for one to reject the faith, given that they are participating in the sacraments? (by sacraments, I assume you mean baptism and communion)
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It certainly is appropriate. It is a prayer that God would increase and strengthen our faith. But that isn't a direct result of our prayer. It still comes from God sacramentally by His grace.
I used the word "sacramentally" as referring to the work that God does on our behalf. If it originates with God and comes to us, it is sacramental in nature. If it originates with us and goes to God, it is sacrificial in nature. Faith is not the product of sacrificial acts (originating with us) but comes to us sacramentally (originating solely from God).
Even if one is going through the motions of participating in the sacraments, that doesn't mean that they don't or can't reject the gift of faith. We need to remember that the visible Church is made up of both true believers and hypocrites.
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