Abuse in a Christian relationship

[Hetta]

Not everyone. Not by a longshot.

My paternal grandfather did become abusive in his last years, after he lost one leg and became bitter.

My fathers greatest fear was that he might follow in his fathers footsteps. He never did. But he did take steps just in case. He instructed me in the clearest of terms to stop him by whatever means needed if he even started down that road.

I have seen that happen in families too. One generation simply decides to stop that curse right there and then in their generation.

 

[PreachersWife2004]

Can you not read between the lines?

I agree with Preacher's wife - in itself a miracle - you are trolling this thread and best ignored.

Hell does freeze over occasionally!

 

[keith99]

I have seen that happen in families too. One generation simply decides to stop that curse right there and then in their generation.

I want to point out that my paternal grandfather was not in general abusive, quite the opposite. During the depression he went to bed without dinner so his children would not.

It was only when he was old and bitter that this came out. It also is not unusual for those going through senility to become abusive. There was more than a touch of that in this case.

 

[Hetta]

I want to point out that my paternal grandfather was not in general abusive, quite the opposite. During the depression he went to bed without dinner so his children would not.

It was only when he was old and bitter that this came out. It also is not unusual for those going through senility to become abusive. There was more than a touch of that in this case.

Ah, then I didn't quite read it properly and made assumptions. Sorry.

But it does still stand that I have seen abuse go from generation to generation (obviously haven't literally seen it, but heard of it), and the current generation has said "no more" and stopped it there. It's wonderful when that happens.

 

[FreeSpirit74]

You sound like you got burned by a woman and I'm sorry about that, but it doesn't mean you get to tell us all that abuse didn't happen. I've been fortunate that I had a loving and supporting family so that I did NOT have to rely on pills to get me through my lowest points. The decision to end my marriage was the HARDEST decision I've ever had to make. The fact that you think you have the right to try to discredit that and basically accuse me of just wanting out of the marriage makes me physically ill.

You want his side of the story? I'd give you all the personal information I have on him if you want. He won't answer a single question and he'd probably draw a gun on you. Good luck with that.

ITA. I WORSHIPPED my abuser in the beginning, and hung onto every word he said. I didn't "put him through" anything. I desperately wanted to become the type of woman he wanted to be with, and strove to be just that, but my real nature (tough, outspoken, brooks no BS) that I had pushed down for so many years because I was always told it was "wrong" conflicted very strongly with that. I started to speak out when I would see or hear something from him that didn't sit right with me. When I finally split from him last year, I did so because I knew I just could not do it anymore - pretend that I was fine being his patsy.

I didn't need drugs either. I do remember having my mother come over during my "down" periods, when we would end up in No Contact, just so I wouldn't be alone. I did think about suicide a few times, as recently as 13 months ago. That time I ended up skipping town and dancing until 2:00 AM at a folk festival with members of my contra dance circle, and then sleeping in my car in the middle of the farm field passing for a parking area. So much better than drugs or slicing my wrists would have done me.

And I could post his side of the story as well. Or, more accurately, the sides of other women who ended up dealing with his BS. The Tumblr posts by his "step daughter" (his gf's daughter) from when she confronted him, as well as the transcript from a conversation I had on Facebook with his 2nd OW/cum girlfriend (who I strongly suspect broke things off with him, although she never came out and say so to me). What really set the alarm bells off was when she said "I am not a strong nor a brave woman." That is EXACTLY what a mental/emotional abuser goes for, because that is not a powerful woman with a lot of self-worth, and the abuser feeds off of the lack of those things. I broke things off over text - if it had been in person he would have ended up in the hospital because I would have busted his skull with the closest heavy object, that's how PO'ed I was about the situation. I was in a pure, crimson red zone at that moment.

 

[FreeSpirit74]

A young person needs to watch his/her own desires as this will impact on the person they choose to be with.
More often than not we are the ones who allow the "vampires" enter into our lives. It's a lot easier to believe it's the other person to blame. Even if they are mostly the blame you still need to examine yourself to find how you end up in the relationship the start with. You got to be honest with yourself.

Wow... seriously????? Your last sentence is EXACTLY what my abuser used to say to me, if I "acted out" in his eyes by not behaving like a sweet, naive little woman who doesn't ever question the man or his motives even if she knows he is "playing" her. Another thing he would tell me was to "internalize" the advice he was always giving me in our conversations. Advice that I was to learn that he doesn't even live by.

Listen, jerk... I will tell you EXACTLY why I wound up in the situation I did. Because I was targeted by a smooth-talking conman who saw fit to flatter an overweight, fashion-unconscious, naive little girl who didn't have the life experience to realize that she was being conned. It took me 9 years to completely put the pieces together about who he was, but I learned a good deal about mental abuse in those years, so I guess that is one positive that came out of it - knowing i don't want to be in that position again.

The bottom line, though is IT IS STILL HIS BEHAVIOR THAT WAS WRONG. I NEVER DID ANYTHING TO HIM TO JUSTIFY HIM MISREPRESENTING HIMSELF TO ME, LYING, OR USING ME TO CHEAT ON HIS GIRLFRIEND WITHOUT TELLING ME THAT WAS WHAT HE WAS DOING AND LETTING ME MAKE THE DECISION WHETHER THAT WAS A ROAD I WANTED TO GO DOWN. IN FACT, I USED TO BE THE ONE ALWAYS APOLOGIZING AFTER OUR PERIODS OF SEPARATION, AND SAYING IT WAS MY FAULT. WELL, NO MORE. THE FIGURATIVE KICK IN THE CROTCH I GAVE HIM AT THE END OF OUR RELATIONSHIP LAST YEAR WAS WORTH EVERYTHING I WENT THROUGH TO GET TO THAT MOMENT - FIRST EXPOSING HIM TO HIS GIRLFRIEND OF 11 YEARS, AND THEN TELLING HIM I WAS THE ONE WHO DID IT.

Do you get it now?????????????? You haven't one shred of a clue what you are talking about, so I suggest you shut your mouth and stop posting on this thread before you trigger someone else besides me.

 

[Smidlee]

I'm amazed how one-sided this thread is while everyone I've talk to IRL sees exactly the same point I'm making with examples of their own. Of course the advantage they know me and know I'm not a troll. They also know I been through a lot myself but still try to have a level head in the matter.
I'm sure people mean well when they give this long list of "signs of mental abuse" yet these list are really useless expect to help accuse someone's falsely. The very thing happened years ago when men and women were accused falsely of child abuse just by going thorough some list of signs of abuse.

The husband in this case for all we know could be falsely accused just like Potiphar's wife accuse Joseph of attending rape and even had evidence to prove it.

As far as elder going senile or having a stroke there no doubt they can be impossible. There is no guaranty I wouldn't end up that way when I start losing my mind.

I haven't called anyone here names like jerk or troll so I don't see how it helping proving your point.
Since too many here are taking this way too personal, which is not my attention, I'll leave this thread alone.

 

[Joykins]

So, true or false: People overly worried about false accusation of abuse are usually either in the midst of a contentious divorce/custody case, or have lots of restraining orders applied for against them?

 

[PreachersWife2004]

ITA. I WORSHIPPED my abuser in the beginning, and hung onto every word he said. I didn't "put him through" anything. I desperately wanted to become the type of woman he wanted to be with, and strove to be just that, but my real nature (tough, outspoken, brooks no BS) that I had pushed down for so many years because I was always told it was "wrong" conflicted very strongly with that. I started to speak out when I would see or hear something from him that didn't sit right with me. When I finally split from him last year, I did so because I knew I just could not do it anymore - pretend that I was fine being his patsy.

I didn't need drugs either. I do remember having my mother come over during my "down" periods, when we would end up in No Contact, just so I wouldn't be alone. I did think about suicide a few times, as recently as 13 months ago. That time I ended up skipping town and dancing until 2:00 AM at a folk festival with members of my contra dance circle, and then sleeping in my car in the middle of the farm field passing for a parking area. So much better than drugs or slicing my wrists would have done me.

And I could post his side of the story as well. Or, more accurately, the sides of other women who ended up dealing with his BS. The Tumblr posts by his "step daughter" (his gf's daughter) from when she confronted him, as well as the transcript from a conversation I had on Facebook with his 2nd OW/cum girlfriend (who I strongly suspect broke things off with him, although she never came out and say so to me). What really set the alarm bells off was when she said "I am not a strong nor a brave woman." That is EXACTLY what a mental/emotional abuser goes for, because that is not a powerful woman with a lot of self-worth, and the abuser feeds off of the lack of those things. I broke things off over text - if it had been in person he would have ended up in the hospital because I would have busted his skull with the closest heavy object, that's how PO'ed I was about the situation. I was in a pure, crimson red zone at that moment.

Yeah, I forgot to mention that the wife after me divorced him, too, and also had to get a restraining order.

The irony? He lives in Maricopa County, in AZ, where they have a posse who will go out and find deadbeat dads. He's just lucky my home state is too lazy to send documents to AZ.

 

[FreeSpirit74]

I haven't called anyone here names like jerk or troll so I don't see how it helping proving your point.

It's because of statements like this:

these list are really useless expect to help accuse someone's falsely.

that I'm calling you a jerk and others call you a troll. You insist on minimizing the experiences of those of us who have experienced abuse, and insinuating that we are falsely accusing the people who have abused us. That, in and of itself, is a commonly used tactic in mental/emotional abuse. It's called gas lighting, after a classic movie in which a man tries to convince his wife that she is imagining her own reality. You also were blame shifting in the last post I responded to.

I'm not trying to "prove" anything by posting my story. I know what I went through. If my personal blog was open to the public, I'd post the link and you could read all 214 posts (out of the 1500 total) I wrote between 2007 and 2013 about my relationship with my abuser. Intimate details, direct quotes from conversations, and cut and pasted text messages.

Since too many here are taking this way too personal, which is not my attention, I'll leave this thread alone.

Yes, I think that would be best.

 

[HannahT]

I'm sure people mean well when they give this long list of "signs of mental abuse" yet these list are really useless expect to help accuse someone's falsely. The very thing happened years ago when men and women were accused falsely of child abuse just by going thorough some list of signs of abuse.

Actually, it sounds like you don't know how the lists are used.

Most of the time the lists are given, because victims - be it men, women or children - don't recognize what they are experiencing abuse. Those lists aren't meant to be used as a 'one time event', but habitual behavior.

People can call someone a name - for example - but that doesn't make it abusive. If the person is someone that uses name calling, belittling, minimizing, etc has part of the regular make up of the relationship? Yes, it can be.

Anything can be misused...even the bible.

What you seem to be missing in the equation is habitual. People relate to the lists, because this habitual behavior is part of their life. Abusive personalities - and that can be anyone - tend to use one or more aspects of these lists on a regular basis.

These tactics are used to crush the spirit of the person, and make them feel they are to blame for whatever comes up in life. Yes, you can throw manipulation on top of that too.

Majority of the time victims of abuse tend to make excuses for the party that is hurting them. They are more than likely to blame themselves, and repeat what was told them repeatedly in the relationship (generally from what I have seen? Grain of truth with a whole BS thrown in). Self Esteem or empowerment is normally absent.

These lists at first normally get them thinking, and we have all heard about parties that return the abusive one regularly. Its NOT an easy cycle to break - even if you have rock solid proof they are knocking the stuffing out of the person. If the beating was all that was present? Most people would get the heck out dodge, but you won't find a person that is a victim of physical abuse...without the emotional or verbal abuse present as well.

In the bible, and in the book of James it speaks of the power of the tongue. You don't even have to learn about abuse to see that happening all over the place. If you can control a person's mind without hitting? Its a very damaging weapon to be used.

Those lists are only tool to help learn what may or may not being going on. You seem to be taking them to literally in this case.

People use lists all the time. Think about the medical field - they are constantly making up lists to help you recognize things. Yes, I'm sure hypochondriac's love them to pieces...but it doesn't make them any less useful for the general population.

 

[bhsmte]

So, true or false: People overly worried about false accusation of abuse are usually either in the midst of a contentious divorce/custody case, or have lots of restraining orders applied for against them?

It is very true (and I speak from experience) that false accusations of all sorts of different abuse, do fly around in contentious divorce situations when custody is in question and usually the false accusations are from the female, because the court tends to take their more seriously and they know it.

 

[Proud Parrot]

I remember the first time the Quiverfull patriarchal movement came to my attention was the Andrea Yates murder trial.

I wonder what the income tax situation is with such families? Especially since now that the adult Duggar children, those over 18, are drawing their own paychecks as cast members on the show.
And then the girls in that family get married and have 20+ children and on and on it goes.

While the present Duggar matriarch is so worn out she's already had one public miscarriage due to the show bringing that out as newsworthy. And not long after that she was pregnant again because the quiverfull women can't refuse their husbands.

Reproduce till she dies or enters menopause.
What a life.

 

[PreachersWife2004]

I remember the first time the Quiverfull patriarchal movement came to my attention was the Andrea Yates murder trial.

I wonder what the income tax situation is with such families? Especially since now that the adult Duggar children, those over 18, are drawing their own paychecks as cast members on the show.
And then the girls in that family get married and have 20+ children and on and on it goes.

While the present Duggar matriarch is so worn out she's already had one public miscarriage due to the show bringing that out as newsworthy. And not long after that she was pregnant again because the quiverfull women can't refuse their husbands.

Reproduce till she dies or enters menopause.
What a life.

While you may comment how you don't like it, I'd be careful of putting thoughts, words and emotions in Michelle's mouth. I'm not sure where you get that quiverfull women can't refuse their husbands, because that's inaccurate.

There is abuse in every "sect" of a religion. A Christian who drowns her children because she thinks God told her to isn't living a Christian teaching. If there is abuse in a Quiverfull household, it doesn't mean the abuse is part of being in the Quiverfull movement.

It's certainly not the lifestyle I would choose, although I would've loved to have had more children. But I don't knock it, either. My experiences with those involved in it have been nothing but positive, and contrary to popular belief, people do actually like it!

 

[Cjwinnit]

Some of the worst abuses have been done in Christ's name by people thinking or deluding others into believing they are doing gods work.

Exactly. In the words of Jesus:

“Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves. You will recognize them by their fruits. Are grapes gathered from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? So, every healthy tree bears good fruit, but the diseased tree bears bad fruit. A healthy tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a diseased tree bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Thus you will recognize them by their fruits."

So, true or false: People overly worried about false accusation of abuse are usually either in the midst of a contentious divorce/custody case, or have lots of restraining orders applied for against them?

?!?