Abstinence

[Downshift]

Alright.
I'm a 23 year old male.
I'm a Protestant Christian.
I'm an abstinent virgin.

I'm really starting to lose faith and hope in this whole abstinence thing since, quite frankly, I haven't met a girl my age that I'm interested in who's a virgin since halfway thru high school, not even at church.

But anyway, on to my issue:

I dont date much, but I recently met this girl that I'm really into.
She's a Christian, as is her mom and step dad that she doesnt live with anymore.
The shocker was that I found out today from her roommate/friend that she is not a virgin as she's told her roommate stories of sex with her ex... who is also a Christian.
Not too surprising in this society, but disappointing.
In the last couple weeks of talking to her and hanging out, I got the "good Christian girl" vibe from her, especially when I'd talk about parties and drinking or whatever and she'd lock up expression-wise and say she's not into all that; that she's never gotten drunk even once.
Part of me wishes she was just lying to her roommate to fit in since her roommate is very promiscuous and always has stories.
That may even be a possibility, but I haven't gotten the courage to ask her that question yet.

The other problem with this girl in particular is that... she's hot.
Wow.
I never would have imagined I had a chance.
With my last ex, sure she was cute and everything, but she really wasn't really sexy.
It wasn't all that hard to resist.
This girl, on the other hand, has a great butt, waist, thighs, legs... that whole area.
It's all I think about.
I don't trust myself around her, even with all my blood in my brain.



What I really want to know is how to hold a relationship with this girl while, or even just break the news to her that I'm still a virgin... and wish to stay a virgin.
Will she even believe me or will she take it personal?
How important is sex to a relationship, especially to women who have given it up already?
What if she hasn't repented and doesn't see the importance of abstinence? Should I stay with her? Would she even bother with me?
I dont believe that relationships should be based on sex primarily since I've seen that end badly too many times, but how far would you expect a relationship to go when one person wants sex and the other wants to abstain?

 

[xmoongirlx]

Ok i don't i don't know what to tell you since I'm also a virgin. But u sure have to tell her that u plan on staying a virgin, by the sound of it it's going to be a tough time for you, since u find her all sexy n stuff, but please keep ur head cool ok and don't give in, u've waited this long, and that's already a great achievement!!!

Don't dwell on it too much until you talk to her about how u feel and she tells you what she thinks about the whole thing. Honestly there are a lot of women out there who like many men care BIG time about sex in the relationship, but if she really likes you she'll understand, and if you guys start going out and fall in LOVE with each other, she'll respect you and learn how to deal with it just because it's important to you.

Good luck and keep us informed!

 

[nbiol]

Virgin here too!

Just tell her. If she really does want to enter in a relationship with you, she's gotta respect some of your boundaries. If you don't want to have sex until marriage, and she's really looking into a relatioship with you, she's going to respect that. [This is weird for me because usually I have this talk with girls...]
Respect has to go both ways!

 

[tessas212]

I wouldn't ask HER about her sexual past quite yet, but I would inform her that you personally believe and want to wait until marriage. From there, you may get a reply, a confession, or just something that tells you what she believes. It should be natural flow of conversation. You may even ask her if she thinks it is important as well, but I would avoid asking about her sexual past. When she trusts you enough, she may tell. Who knows.. maybe it was peer pressure. Maybe the boyfriend wanted it, and she thought she loved him and would be with him forever. Sounds like it was with only her ex, rather than a random number of guys.

As for her being so hot and you not trusting yourself, that is what boundaries are for. No being alone in a room together. When you are at each other's houses(or whatever) you are never fully alone. No touching forbidden areas, etc.

One of the best guys I have ever spoken to told me "I NEVER wanted to put a girl into the position to have to say no." To me, that is extraordinary and honorable.

 

[intricatic]

Sex ain't that important to a relationship, at least, not until the time that it can honestly be said to be important to a relationship (I.E. after marriage). If a person's not a virgin, that doesn't negate the "new birth" essence of saving grace. I wouldn't hold it against her; one of my ex's was the same way and after discussing it with her, we both decided it'd be better to wait. You'd be surprised how far a little commonsense will go. If she gets offended and takes it personally, maybe it'd be better to look at other options (I.E. look for some other girl who's not going to get offended by a guy being decent).

 

[Downshift]

Thanks for the replies, I feel better about this now already.

Y'know, I already spent 4 hours alone with her... in her room... on her bed.
We watched two movies.
Nothing happened.
I was always sitting at least 2 feet from her, never even put my arm around her and no one made a move.
We were only hanging out as friends and I intended to keep it that way.
After the movie was over, I was gone, though I got the vibe that she wanted me to stay.
That worries me a little, but maybe she just wanted me to say I wanted to be more than friends, and not actually sex.
I didnt mention this before I dont think, but I know she likes me and tells her friends she wants me to actually ask her out. So it's not like I need to try to gain her affection, but stalling for too long can cause he to lose it.

I'm going back over there this weekend sometime with the same intentions and boundaries, but I'm going to see where this is going and what her boundaries are.

Pray for my strength and resolve, I'll keep ya posted.

 

[Godzila]

As said before, keep boundaries.

Don't be alone with only you two in the car.
Don't be alone in any rooms.

As attractive as you feel this girl is to you, don't let her beauty and charm tempt you. Stay pure.

 

[nbiol]

We can all pray for your strength and resolve, but at the end of the day, it's up to us to listen to the red warning flags or not.

It's like we can pray for you to do well on a test, but it's up to you to study for it.

If you dont put yourself in a compromising situation, you wont find yourself compromising something.

 

[K9_Trainer]

Keep your standards.

When the topic comes up, it comes up (and it will, don't worry)....Just be honest. If she's gets upset with you or breaks it off because you're a virgin and want to save yourself until marraige, well, what does that say about her? That tells you one thing for sure, she's immature and has her priorities way mixed up. Not the kind of person you want to be married to and have sex with anyway.

What matters is her respect for you. Even if she doesn't place the same value on abstinence, or if she has a sexual past, she should accept and respect your wish to remain abstinent until marriage. Like I said, if she gets upset over your decision or starts to pressure you into doing something, she's probably not the kind of woman you want as your wife.

Second, you've already recognized that you might have temptation problems with her. Even if she thinks it's great that your a virgin and want to save it til marriage, and she's doing the same, it's very, very easy to go too far. Remember that and limit the "alone time" you have together. Hang out in public places, make sure there are parents or a brother/sister in the house when you hang out at home. Avoid anything that you think might tempt you to go further than your current boundaries.

 

[katautumn]

Keep your standards.

When the topic comes up, it comes up (and it will, don't worry)....Just be honest. If she's gets upset with you or breaks it off because you're a virgin and want to save yourself until marraige, well, what does that say about her? That tells you one thing for sure, she's immature and has her priorities way mixed up. Not the kind of person you want to be married to and have sex with anyway.

I hate to disagree, but I wouldn't necessarily think it makes her immature. It would definitely mean she isn't the right woman for him, but if she did break ties with him it may be for reasons other than she needs to have sex in a relationship. It may intimidate her that he is a virgin, or she may be worried he would view her in a negative light because she does have a sexual past.

What matters is her respect for you. Even if she doesn't place the same value on abstinence, or if she has a sexual past, she should accept and respect your wish to remain abstinent until marriage. Like I said, if she gets upset over your decision or starts to pressure you into doing something, she's probably not the kind of woman you want as your wife.

I can get behind this. If he made his intentions clear and she agreed with it and then later tried to pressure him and break his resolve, that would be immature.

 

[ImperialPhantom]

Alright.
I'm a 23 year old male.
I'm a Protestant Christian.
I'm an abstinent virgin.

I'm really starting to lose faith and hope in this whole abstinence thing since, quite frankly, I haven't met a girl my age that I'm interested in who's a virgin since halfway thru high school, not even at church.

But anyway, on to my issue:

I dont date much, but I recently met this girl that I'm really into.
She's a Christian, as is her mom and step dad that she doesnt live with anymore.
The shocker was that I found out today from her roommate/friend that she is not a virgin as she's told her roommate stories of sex with her ex... who is also a Christian.
Not too surprising in this society, but disappointing.
In the last couple weeks of talking to her and hanging out, I got the "good Christian girl" vibe from her, especially when I'd talk about parties and drinking or whatever and she'd lock up expression-wise and say she's not into all that; that she's never gotten drunk even once.
Part of me wishes she was just lying to her roommate to fit in since her roommate is very promiscuous and always has stories.
That may even be a possibility, but I haven't gotten the courage to ask her that question yet.

The other problem with this girl in particular is that... she's hot.
Wow.
I never would have imagined I had a chance.
With my last ex, sure she was cute and everything, but she really wasn't really sexy.
It wasn't all that hard to resist.
This girl, on the other hand, has a great butt, waist, thighs, legs... that whole area.
It's all I think about.
I don't trust myself around her, even with all my blood in my brain.



What I really want to know is how to hold a relationship with this girl while, or even just break the news to her that I'm still a virgin... and wish to stay a virgin.
Will she even believe me or will she take it personal?
How important is sex to a relationship, especially to women who have given it up already?
What if she hasn't repented and doesn't see the importance of abstinence? Should I stay with her? Would she even bother with me?
I dont believe that relationships should be based on sex primarily since I've seen that end badly too many times, but how far would you expect a relationship to go when one person wants sex and the other wants to abstain?

She most likely will take to your desires to remain abstinent, from how you describe her. BUT:

1) Do NOT make an issue with her at all of the fact that she's not a virgin. For all you know, she might already feel like a [wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth] for having slept with the guy. And it doesn't make her any less deserving of love or any less of a person - one who thinks that is putting one's self above Jesus.

2) Just cuz she's had sex before doesn't mean she automatically is going to wanna blow through your boundaries and have sex with you. Nevertheless, the temptation will still be there, so tread lightly.

 

[morningstar2651]

Don't avoid her if you're attracted to her...especially if that attraction is mutual.

I had planned to save myself for marriage, and I settled for saving myself for my (ex)fiance. I have no regrets.

In retrospect, I feel was pressured to make a decision about my future sex-life before I was really ready to make any decisions about my sex life. My decision to abstain put undue focus on the importance of sex in a relationship. My thoughts were far more sexual when I was an abstinent virgin than they are now that I am experienced.

As you describe the signals between you, they aren't sexual.

I'm in a long-term relationship, and we've been together a couple years now. My girlfriend is too ill to have sex right now. The last time we did was probably Valentines Day. We're still together. You don't need to have sex to have a serious relationship...but it doesn't hurt.

My advice is to just be yourself. You're old enough to rethink your vow of abstinence and decide if it was the right choice or one you regret. If you do choose to end your vow of abstinence, be safe & responsible about sex.

 

[Downshift]

First of all, dont worry about Morningstar having any effect on me.
Like I said, I'm a 23 year old male in college; I deal with pressure and temptation like this all the time.
I'm not going to reply to it since their choices regarding things like this are not for me to judge, it's between them and God.


Ok, so here’s where I’m at now.
We’ve been hanging out since I last posted.
I haven’t told her I like her or done anything sexual at all yet.
She’s cool and we’re really getting to know each other… well I’m really getting to know her since she’s far more open about stuff than me.

But I think I may have made a mistake…

Don't be alone with only you two in the car.
Don't be alone in any rooms.

As attractive as you feel this girl is to you, don't let her beauty and charm tempt you. Stay pure.

If you dont put yourself in a compromising situation, you wont find yourself compromising something.

you've already recognized that you might have temptation problems with her. Even if she thinks it's great that your a virgin and want to save it til marriage, and she's doing the same, it's very, very easy to go too far. Remember that and limit the "alone time" you have together. Hang out in public places, make sure there are parents or a brother/sister in the house when you hang out at home. Avoid anything that you think might tempt you to go further than your current boundaries.

I didn’t take any of this advice.
Not because I didn’t agree with it, but… because I didn’t want to.
I wanted to be alone with her, but also to test my resolve.
I took a risk.
I did go back over there this weekend.
The main difference is that she turned the lights off during the movies this time.
Unlike last week, I did not leave at 3am after the movies were over, and she didn’t want me to.
She just sat on the foot of her bed holding her pillow, looking at me.
I searched my resolve, verified I knew my boundaries… and then sat next to her on the bed again.
We watched a few videos on Youtube, then the internet got boring.
We then reclined on the bed and started talking about stuff.
After 5 minutes the monitor on the iMac auto shut off and we were alone in the dark on her bed.
This was at 3am.

Very interesting night.

We were both fully clothed and laying on top of the bed comforter.
We talked about everything except our feelings for each other all night, until about 7am.
The “worst” thing that happened was that we’d physically flirt by wresting when she’d take my phone, etc.
It got the point where we were laying on our sides, facing each other, faces only 6 inches apart, talking softly.
I gotta admit, it was hard, but not as hard as I thought it’d be.
I kept looking at her while we were talking, looking at her lips and wanting a taste.
Kept looking at her butt in those jeans and [tasteless comment edited by Downshift].
However, I was content to just lay there, looking at her and listening, knowing that I was welcome in this type of situation convincing myself that I was enough for me.
There was no need to rush anything and put myself in a compromising situation.
As far as from her end, she pretty much did all she could to tempt and taunt me into at least making a move without actually pouncing on me.
She’d poke me with her toes, intertwine her feet with mine, steal my phone and drop it in her bra (no, I never fished it out), etc.
I have no way of really knowing how far it would have gone; if she just wanted to kiss and cuddle or if she wanted me to take it as far as my hormones wanted.
Despite all this and me never doing anything, it was a very comfortable situation and we kept all the conversation mature as we talked about our life stories, childhood experiences and other personal things.
At 7am, her alarm went off and we both said we had to go to church in 2 hours.
We ended up staying up the rest of the morning and going separate ways to our different churches.
Because neither of us got any sleep, we were both tired that day (Father’s Day), but when we were both done with our agendas for that day, I went back over to her place, getting there after 11pm.
We both had gotten only about 2 or 3 hours of sleep for being awake for 48 hours.
Same drill, lights off, sitting on bed, trying to watch movies, but this time we both dozed off.
So we fell asleep, fully clothed, on top of the sheets, next to each other.
Again, nothing happened.
She woke me up by getting off the bed to brush her hair or some girly thing, and then we finished the movie that we slept through.
This was Monday morning and we both had errands to run, so we went separate ways again.
Nothing was awkward as I said bye, but I didn’t so much as give her a hug.
Not sure if that was a bad move…
That was the last time I was over there.

Now, my sister is only 15 months younger than me and is just as devout a Christian as I, and is 100% against me staying there until 3am that one night, let alone all night, two nights in a row.
She mentioned it being bad for appearances, and putting myself in a very dangerous and tempting situation.
However she does actually believe me when I say nothing happened, and that means a ton to me.
I’m pretty confident that I can control myself because I don’t see how it can get more tempting than those last two nights, but that part about appearances…
I don’t care what people think because I know what really happened.
But the more I think about it, the more I wonder how the appearance reflects on me as a Christian.
Am I setting a bad example?
How responsible am I, as a Christian following Jesus’ example, for what other people assume?
Even if you’re not really sinning, you might be setting a bad example…
Now, I also think my sister is basing this "risky situation" thing assuming the girl is the only one who wants to abstain.
I think that there's much less of a risk if the guy is the one trying to resist rather that if the girl is the one trying to keep it clean.
I know how guys think, we know what and how to make girls melt.

Also, I keep worrying what this girl must be thinking.
She invited a guy that she likes over to her place who was there two nights in a row, all night, and never made a move or any advances on her.
What does she think? What would you think?
“Does he not like me that way? Am I ugly? Did I do something wrong?”
Or does she actually think that I’m the type who will respect her as a woman.
It feels to me as if that type of guy is just too rare and opposite of the stereotypical male, that she’d never believe that I’m truly like that.
Should I even worry?
We’ve been “friends” like this for almost a month now.
Am I even at risk of her getting bored and moving on to someone who will make a move?
And if she’s the type of person who would do that or want that, should I even be wasting my time and attention on her?

I don’t know.
Neither of us have admitted any feelings, though we keep dropping subtle, inappropriate hints (heh), and I still have no idea where this is going.

 

[eatenbylocusts]

Downshift-if I was the girl in this situation I would be wondering what the heck was going on. Because of all of the flirting that is happening, a talk on whatever boundaries you want to keep should be happening soon.
I'm going to side with your sister on this one. You are putting yourself in a very tempting situation and what happens when the kissing starts and it's 3 am and you're lying on her bed?

 

[katautumn]

Downshift, it is true you're an adult and can make your own decisions. Personally, I never liked the "abstain from the appearance of evil" argument, because for starters it is nobody's business what you're doing at your friend's place all night - whether you're having sex or playing Monopoly. If you're playing Monopoly and people want to assume you were having sex and will judge you based on that, then they're the ones with the dirty minds and should be ashamed of themselves.

On the flip side, however, if you're truly committed to abstaining until you are married you probably should stop constantly trying to "test your resolve". Love should never be about testing your partner or testing yourself in highly emotional and hormonal circumstances. Most guys your age would want to have sex with a girl you're lying next to in the dark. It's only natural.

I'm going to share something, because this is a topic that comes up a lot on this forum. I'm sure some of you here have seen the movie "Pretty Woman" where Julia Roberts plays a prostitute. She tells Richard Gere that she only has one rule - she doesn't kiss guys on the mouth. For her, even being a hooker, kissing on the mouth was intensely personal and intimate. Even during my period of being sexually promiscuous I never spent the night with guys or permitted them to spend the night with me. Lying in bed with someone cuddled up and waking up next to them in the morning is an incredibly intimate experience. That is why I waited until my husband and I had been dating over a year before we even had sex, let alone spend the night with one another. I wanted to make sure I wasn't doing something that fostered a deep sense of emotional involvement.

Downshift, I'm certain my set of morals differs from yours and most posters here. I fled the bondage of promiscuous sex, but I never did strive to abstain until marriage. But, then again, I'm not a Christian either and we were never raised to wait until the wedding night. But I did want to make sure my husband and I were in love before becoming intimate with one another. You are going to have to decide what you want out of this. You say you want to remain abstinent, and yet you are disappointed this young woman has not made a move. You say you want to be a virgin until your wedding night, and yet you are deliberately setting the scene to become aroused beyond the point of no return, merely to test your resolve.

You really need to reconcile within yourself where your priorities lie right now and deal with the emotional/physical/mental consequences that come from your decision, good or bad.

 

[Godzila]

Do as you wish brother.

Know this, the boundaries are set up as part of the purity commitment.

Putting yourself in that type of situation is like inviting the evil one in.

 

[Downshift]

Downshift-if I was the girl in this situation I would be wondering what the heck was going on. Because of all of the flirting that is happening, a talk on whatever boundaries you want to keep should be happening soon.
I'm going to side with your sister on this one. You are putting yourself in a very tempting situation and what happens when the kissing starts and it's 3 am and you're lying on her bed?

The strange thing is, neither of us admitted any feelings for each other, let alone made any type of clearly romantic move.
That has to happen before there is any reason to inquire about boundaries.
But I agree that she must be pretty confused and it really bugs me that I don’t know what she’s thinking.
She’s a very upbeat person and I’ve been talking to her (mostly text) since that night and we’re just teasing each other and making jokes… nothing serious.
She’s never serious over text.
You have to mellow the mood *a lot* to get her to be serious.

You are going to have to decide what you want out of this. You say you want to remain abstinent, and yet you are disappointed this young woman has not made a move. You say you want to be a virgin until your wedding night, and yet you are deliberately setting the scene to become aroused beyond the point of no return, merely to test your resolve.

You really need to reconcile within yourself where your priorities lie right now and deal with the emotional/physical/mental consequences that come from your decision, good or bad.

No, I am not disappointed that she has not made a move.
I never said that.
I fear that she is disappointed that I never did, or more so, that she’s confused or hurt because I didn’t.

I’m starting to wonder if I went over there to actually test my resolve or because I just wanted to be there.
Or was it both?
Even now I’d rather be at her place next to her than here at home on my computer.
Why is that?
Am I just really tempted but am putting hope in my resolve and faith that I will be able to be in that situation without crossing the point of no return.
You’re right, that’s very dangerous.
I can feel my desire getting the better of me, and my overconfidence might be my downfall… and the fact that I could spend two nights in that situation and not give only strengthens that confidence…

 

[K9_Trainer]

Ok honestly, if he made the decision to stay abstinent, then we should support that and help him regardless.

Yeah, he is an adult and can decide for himself, make his own decisions. And no, I'm personally not a stickler on saving sex till marriage, I'll be the first to admit I have no desires whatsoever to save it for marriage.

But the point of the thread is not whether or not he should change his mind about abstinence. It's about him having worries about whether or not a specific woman in his life will accept his decision, and asking for advice on how to handle it.

 

[katautumn]

Ok honestly, if he made the decision to stay abstinent, then we should support that and help him regardless.

Yeah, he is an adult and can decide for himself, make his own decisions. And no, I'm personally not a stickler on saving sex till marriage, I'll be the first to admit I have no desires whatsoever to save it for marriage.

But the point of the thread is not whether or not he should change his mind about abstinence. It's about him having worries about whether or not a specific woman in his life will accept his decision, and asking for advice on how to handle it.

I concur, although I think the reason I told him he may want to re-evaluate his priorities is because he seems to have a desire to push the envelope in this relationship, despite his public profession of committing himself to abstinence.

And Downshift, I apologize if I misread your post about being disappointed. It was in the wee hours of the morning when I responded. Spending two nights with a person and not having sex does not prove resolve. I dated a man and we laid in bed together and cuddled many nights, but we never had sex. It just never really happened, and I hadn't made a commitment to remain abstinent until marriage.

I'm not saying that by not having sex you weren't doing the right thing; however, it doesn't necessarily mean that if the relationship progresses to the point of being very romantic and emotional that you will be able to continue spending the night with her without it totally eroding your resolve.

 

[morningstar2651]

I have another anecdote to share, hopefully you can learn a lesson or two from the story. This story is about a friend of mine. She's a Christian. We used to discuss just about everything with each other just about every day back before she fell in with a bad crowd and dropped out of college.

My friend is the most promiscuous virgin I know. She has had more partners in the one year than I have had in five years... and she cheats on them. To use a crude metaphor, she goes to third base.

Did I mention that she's saving herself for marriage? She believes that it's a sin to have sex outside of marriage, so she's not going past third base. I don't know about you, but this sounds pretty hypocritical to me.

One time, while discussing her exploits, I asked her "How much of yourself do you intend to save for marriage?" The question gave her pause, and (as far as I know) she stopped cheating. But the deeper point didn't sink in. In her eyes, she is still keeping her vow of abstinence.