absolute impossibility theory

[DaneaFL]

Why are you guys debating the attributes and character of God? Shouldn't you start with proving his existence first?

 

[Jamin4422]

Why are you guys debating the attributes and character of God? Shouldn't you start with proving his existence first?

Do you mean we need to prove that He created us and that we did not create Him?

 

[CabVet]

Do you mean we need to prove that He created us and that we did not create Him?

No, you need to prove that He exists. I thought she was clear enough.

 

[TravThom]

Why are you guys debating the attributes and character of God? Shouldn't you start with proving his existence first?

Have you tried to search for him? I don't have to prove his existence. We don't have to prove God, if you have truly searched for him then you would know his existence. When you find him your life is completely different in a way that there is no longer doubting his existence. If you really want to know him, search him out, if not then its not good to entertain foolish thoughts or foolish questions.

 

[DaneaFL]

Have you tried to search for him? I don't have to prove his existence. We don't have to prove God, if you have truly searched for him then you would know his existence. When you find him your life is completely different in a way that there is no longer doubting his existence. If you really want to know him, search him out, if not then its not good to entertain foolish thoughts or foolish questions.

Oh I see, so he only exists if I really, really want him to exist... makes sense to me.

...and if anyone hasn't found him yet, well you just aren't searching hard enough!

How will I know if I found God? Will my life change? How will it change? Will good things start happening? I'm fine with my life right now, thank you very much, but I'm willing to test your hypothesis.

That's a testable claim you just made there. So I should be able to look at the majority of Christians and see that their lives are better on average than non-christians?

Maybe not "better" but are they more moral? Do their lives cause them to be better people than non-christians? Should I be able to observe these "fruits of the spirit"?

Well, all the studies done so far show that communities with higher than average christian populations also have higher than average abortion rates, crime, divorce, and spousal abuse among other undesirable things.

Abortions Highest Where Religion is Highest

Misinformation and facts about secularism and religion | Psychology Today

So... what does this tell us? How do you explain why these people who have "found god" are not fitting with the assumption that you made?

Are they not "true christians"?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman

 

[TravThom]

That's not the same thing as claiming that God only deceives those who are against him, a group that I suspect you think includes most of the human race.

I don't think, I know. I know because it is a fact. As time progresses more and more decide not to believe. God does not make anyone do anything. God gives us a choice. He also lets us know the consequences of each choice we decide to make. In revelations a third of man kind will be wiped out. That's not because God is evil, he gave us a choice with the consequences. So anyway back to my point, I know that most of the human race( which is a third at least) CHOOSE to be against God.

 

[TravThom]

So... what does this tell us? How do you explain why these people who have "found god" are not fitting with the assumption that you made?

All this tells me is that you have already made your choice. Your studies mean nothing to me, I know my God exist I do not need to your studies to tell me otherwise. I know your type, I can tell you all sorts of truths, and you will twist them around to prove your point. We will go around in circles getting nowhere, it's pointless. You cannot see what you do not want to see. Until you choose to open your eyes you will continue to be blind.

 

[DaneaFL]

All this tells me is that you have already made your choice. Your studies mean nothing to me, I know my God exist I do not need to your studies to tell me otherwise. I know your type, I can tell you all sorts of truths, and you will twist them around to prove your point. We will go around in circles getting nowhere, it's pointless. You cannot see what you do not want to see. Until you choose to open your eyes you will continue to be blind.

Well wait a minute... Hang on... Didn't you just tell me that when people find god their lives change?

Are you going to back that up with anything? How would I know you were telling the truth? I would look for evidence, right?

How do YOU tell if something is true or not? do you look for good reasons before you believe stuff or do you just go around believing whatever makes you feel good?

Personally I have not made up my mind about gods. The second they can be demonstrated to have any noticeable affect on reality is the second that I will believe in them.

So far, however, no god claim yet has been able to show any evidence for their existence.

 

[Jamin4422]

Do you mean we need to prove that He created us and that we did not create Him?

Your concept of God is a creation of your own mind.
You do not know God because you have no interest in knowing God.

 

[Jamin4422]

How do YOU tell if something is true or not?

How does Science know if something is true or not?

 

[Jamin4422]

No, you need to prove that He exists. I thought she was clear enough.

That is absolute absurdity. It is up to YOU to determine if God exists for yourself. That has nothing to do with me. You claim to know science. So use what you know from Science to find out if God exists or not. You got to quit depending on others to do that for you. If you are trained then use your training. Sooner or later you got to go out in the real world and find out if all that stuff you learned really works.

 

[TravThom]

Well wait a minute... Hang on... Didn't you just tell me that when people find god their lives change?

Are you going to back that up with anything? How would I know you were telling the truth? I would look for evidence, right?

How do YOU tell if something is true or not? do you look for good reasons before you believe stuff or do you just go around believing whatever makes you feel good?

Personally I have not made up my mind about gods. The second they can be demonstrated to have any noticeable affect on reality is the second that I will believe in them.

So far, however, no god claim yet has been able to show any evidence for their existence.

Your clearly not here to learn anything, If you are you don't sound like it. I walk by faith not by sight. That's all I'm going to say on this. I'm not going to continue to entertain your way of thinking.

 

[The Engineer]

That is absolute absurdity. It is up to YOU to determine if God exists for yourself.

So Gods existence is subjective?

That has nothing to do with me. You claim to know science. So use what you know from Science to find out if God exists or not.

I'm pretty sure CabVet did that.

You got to quit depending on others to do that for you. If you are trained then use your training. Sooner or later you got to go out in the real world and find out if all that stuff you learned really works.

What makes you think CabVet didn't do that already?

More importantly, what does your reply have to do with CabVets post?

Your clearly not here to learn anything, If you are you don't sound like it.

That's just a fancier way of saying you don't want others to apply logic to religious topics.

By the way, it would be you're, not your.

I walk by faith not by sight.

So you're walking blind? Sounds like a great idea!

 

[AV1611VET]

I was looking on the internet for the Impossibility Theory. I could not find one. The only theory I could find was called the Absolute Impossibility Theory.

The Duhem-Quine thesis says it is impossible to test a scientific hypothesis in isolation, and is therefore incapable of making predictions.

 

[DaneaFL]

Your clearly not here to learn anything, If you are you don't sound like it. I walk by faith not by sight. That's all I'm going to say on this. I'm not going to continue to entertain your way of thinking.

Actually I love learning. I also have a illegitimate question for you:

What makes you think that faith is a good determinant of truth?
In other words, how is faith a viable method for deciding what to believe?

By definition, faith is belief without evidence. How is that a good thing? I think we've all been brainwashed to some degree by society into thinking faith is a good thing. Some guy gets on TV and they introduce him with reverence as a "man of faith"... Why? That's like saying "Here's a great man who believes stuff without any good reasons to."

While you think about why faith is a good way to decide truth, let me tell you why I don't think it is.

If you accept faith as a determinant for truth, then you will be forced to accept an infinite number of contradictory claims.

For example, every religion in the world operates based on faith. So how do you use faith to determine which religion is the right one? based on the amount of faith? Well presumably it takes a lot of faith to fly yourself into a building; so is Islam the true religion?

Unlike faith, science is a self-correcting process that disproves itself constantly in order to improve. Faith, on the other hand, is not falsifiable in any way so it lacks any self-correcting mechanism. People believe because they believe... nothing more than that...

For example, if a scientist claimed that the moon was made out of cheese, how would you disprove that? Well, you could physically go to the moon and check. Now, if a preacher says that God created the earth 6000 years ago but made it look like it's been around for billions of years, how could you test that? You can't... It's unfalsifiable.

The basic rule of thumb is that if an idea leaves no way for us to check if it's wrong then it's probably the wrong idea. Religion makes tons of unfalsifiable claims and we are just supposed to accept them on faith.

Personally, I do not walk by faith... I only believe stuff if I have a good reason to.

 

[And-U-Say]

Have you tried to search for him? I don't have to prove his existence. We don't have to prove God, if you have truly searched for him then you would know his existence. When you find him your life is completely different in a way that there is no longer doubting his existence. If you really want to know him, search him out, if not then its not good to entertain foolish thoughts or foolish questions.

I was a Christian for 40 years. but only when I decided to look for him did I find that he does not exist. There is no evidence for god. The bible is a total mish-mash of iron age myths and has nothing to do with reality.

Yes, you do have to prove his existence. But you, like all others before you cannot. You have no evidence. And that says it all.

 

[SkyWriting]

That is absolute absurdity. It is up to YOU to determine if God exists for yourself. That has nothing to do with me. You claim to know science. So use what you know from Science to find out if God exists or not. You got to quit depending on others to do that for you. If you are trained then use your training. Sooner or later you got to go out in the real world and find out if all that stuff you learned really works.

The scientific method requires reproducible methods that can be documented so that others can double check the methods used and decide if the results are similar to the original procedure. Then they have the opportunity to evaluate the data and determine if the original conclusions about the results were correctly made.

Clearly any influence by God is not reproducible on demand so cannot be examined by use of the scientific method.
God can only be experienced by the Spirit.

 

[SkyWriting]

So you're walking blind? Sounds like a great idea!

If you see headlights coming at you at 50MPH on a two lane road, its only on faith that you continue to believe and trust that the other guy is awake and not dosing off. There is no way to SEE that he's on the right side of the road. Usually you don't even slow down.

How about a gravel road going over a hill? Do you always stay fully on the right side? Not everyone does.

 

[rikerjoe]

If you see headlights coming at you at 50MPH on a two lane road, its only on faith that you continue to believe and trust that the other guy is awake and not dosing off. There is no way to SEE that he's on the right side of the road. Usually you don't even slow down.

Most certainly NOT. It's by observation, not faith! Of course there is a way to see he is on the right side of the road!

How about a gravel road going over a hill? Do you always stay fully on the right side? Not everyone does.

I most certainly do! Those that don't shouldn't be behind the wheel at all.

 

[Elendur]

I most certainly do! Those that don't shouldn't be behind the wheel at all.

Agreed.