Abraham

[RGL1]

Was Abraham a Jew or a Gentile?

 

[pehkay]

er... there were no Jews or Israel ... at that time

Abraham's grandson Jacob, have 12 sons which become the 12 tribes of Israel

 

[JM]

In Christ there is neither Jew nor Greek...

 

[billwald]

>In Christ there is neither Jew nor Greek...

Because God could save anyone "in Christ" even before Abraham was born. Maybe before Adam was created.

 

[LamorakDesGalis]

Was Abraham a Jew or a Gentile?

Abraham was a Gentile before he was circumcised. That is Paul's point in Romans 4:10-13 - that Abraham was justified when he was uncircumcised (a Gentile). That made Abraham the father of all Gentiles who believe.

Paul also points out that Abraham when circumcised, is the father of the circumcised - the Jews.

Romans 4:10-13 10 Under what circumstances was it [Abraham's faith] credited? Was it after he was circumcised, or before? It was not after, but before! 11 And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness that he had by faith while he was still uncircumcised. So then, he is the father of all who believe but have not been circumcised, in order that righteousness might be credited to them. 12 And he is also the father of the circumcised who not only are circumcised but who also walk in the footsteps of the faith that our father Abraham had before he was circumcised. 13 It was not through law that Abraham and his offspring received the promise that he would be heir of the world, but through the righteousness that comes by faith.

Lamorak Des Galis

 

[Atha]

better still.. a Father

 

[Jerrysch]

In Christ there is neither Jew nor Greek...

... nor male nor female, yet we do indeed have greeks and Jews, males and females, so what does this passage mean?

 

[JM]

It means the middle wall of partition has been broken down, now God's people are being called out of the world and not just [in general] ethnic Israel. This is expansion, not replacement, of Israel.

Col. 3:11 "Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all."

How is one saved and NOT in Christ?

 

[Jerrysch]

It means the middle wall of partition has been broken down, now God's people are being called out of the world and not just [in general] ethnic Israel. This is expansion, not replacement, of Israel.

Col. 3:11 "Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all."

How is one saved and NOT in Christ?

Very good . I just wanted to have you expand upon what you had said for the sake of the noble bystanders.

How is one saved and not in Christ?? Prior to the building of the church, those who were justified by faith were not in Christ.

 

[heymikey80]

Was Abraham a Jew or a Gentile?

Yes.

Abraham was a Gentile, called out to be the father of both Gentiles and Jews who walk in faith.

He received the sign of circumcision as a seal of the righteousness that he had by faith while he was still uncircumcised. The purpose was to make him the father of all who believe without being circumcised, so that righteousness would be counted to them as well, and to make him the father of the circumcised who are not merely circumcised but who also walk in the footsteps of the faith that our father Abraham had before he was circumcised. Rom 4:11-12
​

Abe's the father of those with faith -- Jew and Gentile.

 

[ddub85]

@ JM

The Bible says nothing about an expansion of Israel. What it means is that in Christ, there is no difference. There is no preference, no advantage, no privilege,...

But it in no way denotes an expansion of Israel. If there was an expansion of Israel, the Bibl ewould clearly state it. There is no such statement in the word of God.

God Bless!

 

[RGL1]

This is an intersting verse.

Then one who had escaped came and told Abram the Hebrew, who was living by the oaks of Mamre the Amorite, brother of Eshcol and of Aner. These were allies of Abram.
Genesis 14:13

 

[J21]

This is an intersting verse.

Then one who had escaped came and told Abram the Hebrew, who was living by the oaks of Mamre the Amorite, brother of Eshcol and of Aner. These were allies of Abram.
Genesis 14:13

I've read in Unger's Handbook that the name 'Hebrew' - taken from the word 'Habiru' used here in reference to Abram, is the first time it is used for a person within the Bible and is not so much a term denoting ethnicity, rather was based on the social description of what Abraham and his family did for a living - "wanderers" or "those who pass from place to place"...shepherds etc.

Abraham became ,through the Covenant promise, the father of all men of faith, Jew or Gentile.

I would say that this term 'Hebrew' used for Abram could be akin to the use of the word 'Gypsy' for a multitude of differing ethnic groups who 'travel'.

Peace.

 

[JM]

There is but one everlasting covenant made within the Godhead.

 

[plum]

Very good . I just wanted to have you expand upon what you had said for the sake of the noble bystanders.

How is one saved and not in Christ?? Prior to the building of the church, those who were justified by faith were not in Christ.

are you saying there is more than one way to be saved?

 

[Jerrysch]

Was Abraham a Jew or a Gentile?

He was a gentile, what is it that makes a person a Jew?

 

[Jerrysch]

are you saying there is more than one way to be saved?

Oh no, not at all, Yet those who were justified by faith prior to the comming of Messiah were not members of the body of Messiah, that is what I meant, I may have stated my question in an unclear manner

 

[Jerrysch]

There is but one everlasting covenant made within the Godhead.

And what would that be and where would we find it in Scripture?

 

[Hismessenger]

Abraham was a gentile saved by grace just as all the church is.

Hismessenger

 

[JM]

And what would that be and where would we find it in Scripture?

According to Lewis S. Chafer the Covenant of Redemption is found in Titus 1:2; Hebews 13:20.