About perpetual life

[ywl]

Is it only through the belief in Christ can people get perpetual life?
If true, thne people who does't have a chance to know Christ are bound to die. But this sounds unfair for them.

How God manage to give everyone the chance to have perpetual life?

 

[Zebra1552]

Since sin entered this world, things are rarely fair. But was it really fair for Christ to die for our sins in the first place? No...

 

[Krystabelle]

It's best that we don't judge God. He's mysterious. He's fair, but we don't know how He works. Sure only those that not just believe, but TRUST their lives on Jesus will have eternal life. But for those who have never heard of the gospel, God will have His way. Some interpretation says there is a difference between Hades and Hell, like Hades is for those that didn't know but will be judged there, I dunno, but its interesting.

 

[Webers_Home]

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RE: Is it only through the belief in Christ can people get perpetual life?

There's an alternate way to obtain eternal life; but it's very difficult.

†. Luke 10:25-28 . . On one occasion an expert in the law stood up to test Jesus. Teacher; he asked, what must I do to inherit eternal life?

. . Jesus replied: What is written in the Law? How do you read it?

. . He answered: Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind; and, Love your neighbor as yourself.

. .You have answered correctly. Do this and you will live.

†. Rom 2:6-7 . . God will give to each person according to what he has done. To those who seek glory, honor, and immortality by persistence in doing good; He will give eternal life.

If it's any consolation, the Bible's God permits ignorance to be a mitigating circumstance (Num 15:27-31). So then the uninformed will be judged with less severity than those who know better.

†. Luke 12:47-48 . . And that servant who knew his master's will, and did not prepare himself or do according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes. But he who did not know, yet committed things deserving of stripes, shall be beaten with few.

From that, I gather that the judgment of the ignorant won't be done in a vengeful spirit; but rather, with a bit more understanding— nevertheless, the ignorant will be judged; and according to the Bible, the wages of their sins will be death. (Rom 6:23)

Everyone's first death is mandatory, and due to Adam's sin rather than their own (Gen 3:3, Gen 3:19, and Rom 5:12). So then, the ignorant will have to die a second time via incineration in a reservoir of liquefied flame in order to satisfy justice for their own sins. And since there is only one resurrection per person, nobody is coming back from their experience with death the second time.

†. Dan 12:2 . . And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake: some to everlasting life; some to shame and everlasting contempt.

†. John 5:27-30 . . The hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice and come forth— those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation.

†. Rev 20:14-15 . .The lake of fire is the second death. If anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

C.L.I.F.F.
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[salida]

Its all very fair. In Acts 17:26-27- it mentions that each individual is born in a certain time period, place and environment so that we may know Him. Thus, each person was born in this fashion so that our chance of knowing God is at its highest. Plus, his creation that you see mentions that mankind is without excuse - Romans 1:20.

 

[ywl]

Is this means that some people are just not God's people so they have no chance to know God?

Its all very fair. In Acts 17:26-27- it mentions that each individual is born in a certain time period, place and environment so that we may know Him. Thus, each person was born in this fashion so that our chance of knowing God is at its highest. Plus, his creation that you see mentions that mankind is without excuse - Romans 1:20.

 

[christian08]

No my friend we all have a chance. Even if it's once in our life. The Lord gives us that chance. Our Lord IS the only way, John 14:6. We have the choice. The choice to listen to the Gospel and acept it, following our Lord, being His disciple. Or we can choose, even if it's only hearing it once, to ot listen b/c it sounds "delusional". Like another said above. In the end, and the Lord warns us, there will be no excuse. He also says, that He wont come to judge till all have heard the Gospel, to the ends of the earth. Brining it back to, noone has that excuse "I didn't know"

 

[ywl]

But it's pretty obvious that many people don't have the chance to know Gospel in their whole life. Are they going to be reborn to get another chance.

No my friend we all have a chance. Even if it's once in our life. The Lord gives us that chance. Our Lord IS the only way, John 14:6. We have the choice. The choice to listen to the Gospel and acept it, following our Lord, being His disciple. Or we can choose, even if it's only hearing it once, to ot listen b/c it sounds "delusional". Like another said above. In the end, and the Lord warns us, there will be no excuse. He also says, that He wont come to judge till all have heard the Gospel, to the ends of the earth. Brining it back to, noone has that excuse "I didn't know"

 

[Webers_Home]

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RE: But it's pretty obvious that many people don't have the chance to know Gospel in their whole life. Are they going to be reborn to get another chance.

People whose names aren't recorded in the book of life at the time of their resurrection won't be given a second chance.

†. Dan 12:2 . . And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake: some to everlasting life; some to shame and everlasting contempt.

†. John 5:27-30 . . The hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice and come forth— those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation.

†. Rev 20:14-15 . .The lake of fire is the second death. If anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

And since there's only one resurrection per person, nobody is coming back from the lake.

C.L.I.F.F.
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[christian08]

YWL.... The Lord promises there will be no Trib, no judgement till ALL hear the gospel. There is no way of getting around it, we are not omnipotent, but our Lord is. But let me ask you this my friend. Now a days, where hasn't ANY heard the Gospel, or EVEN of our Lord?

 

[Webers_Home]

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†. Mtt 24:14 . . This gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.

There are three important elements to note in Jesus' statement.

1) The gospel to which he referred is the gospel of the kingdom rather than the gospel of the cross and/or the grace of God.

2) the gospel of the kingdom would be preached in the whole world, but not especially to the whole world; in other words, he's not talking about preaching the gospel of the kingdom to every individual.

3) the gospel of the kingdom is a testimony to all nations, but not especially a testimony to every citizen in each nation.

Just prior to the final calamities predicted in the book of Revelation, a designated angel will fly around the earth preaching a gospel called the everlasting gospel. It's a rudimentary message containing only a few elementary details.

†. Rev 14:6-7 . .Then I saw another angel flying across the sky, having the everlasting gospel to preach to those who dwell on the earth— to every nation, tribe, tongue, and people —saying with a loud voice: Fear God and give glory to Him, for the hour of His judgment has come; and worship Him who made heaven and earth, the sea and springs of water.

The everlasting gospel contains nothing new nor of special significance. It merely states that:

1) there's a supreme being

2) He's to be recognized and respected

3) He's going to call the human race to account, and

4) the cosmos is the result of intelligent design.

Portions of the everlasting gospel have been public since before the Flood.

†. Jude 14-15 . . Now Enoch, who lived seven generations after Adam, prophesied about these people. He said: Be advised! The Lord is coming with thousands of his elect. He will bring the people of the world to judgment. He will convict the irreverent of all the irreverent things they have done in rebellion, and of all the insults that irreverent sinners have spoken against Him.

T. And the Lord said to Kain, Why hast thou anger, and why are the features of thy face downcast? If thou doest thy work well, will not thy guilt be forgiven thee? But if thou doest not thy work well in this world, thy sin is retained unto the day of the great judgment, and at the doors of thy heart lieth thy sin. And into thy hand have I delivered the power over evil passion, and unto thee shall be the inclination thereof, that thou mayest have authority over it to become righteous, or to sin. (Targum Jonathan)

T. Habel answered and said to Kain, In goodness was the world created, and according to the fruit of good works is it governed; and there is no respect of persons in judgment; but because the fruits of my works were better than thine, my oblation, before thine, hath been accepted with good will. Kain answered and said to Habel, There is neither judgment nor Judge, nor another world; nor will good reward be given to the righteous, nor vengeance be taken of the wicked.

. . And Habel answered and said to Kain, There is a judgment, and there is a Judge; and there is another world, and a good reward given to the righteous, and vengeance taken of the wicked. And because of these words they had contention upon the face of the field; and Kain arose against Habel his brother, and drave a stone into his forehead, and killed him. (Targum Jonathan)

C.L.I.F.F.
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[ywl]

Most people know our Lord. But I am pretty sure many don't know the Gospel. Things will be more obvious if we think of the situation 2000 years ago. When Jesus was still alive, of course, at that time, only small amount of people know the Gospel, like his disciples. Furthermore, I don't know how people before Jesus get salvation.

YWL.... The Lord promises there will be no Trib, no judgement till ALL hear the gospel. There is no way of getting around it, we are not omnipotent, but our Lord is. But let me ask you this my friend. Now a days, where hasn't ANY heard the Gospel, or EVEN of our Lord?

 

[Jeffwhosoever]

Most people know our Lord. But I am pretty sure many don't know the Gospel. Things will be more obvious if we think of the situation 2000 years ago. When Jesus was still alive, of course, at that time, only small amount of people know the Gospel, like his disciples. Furthermore, I don't know how people before Jesus get salvation.

I'm not sure I understand your point above. The Gospel is about Jesus Christ, so I don't know how you can truly know the Lord without knowing the Gospels (Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John). Please explain and we'll try to help.

Jeff

 

[ywl]

Some people heard of the name of Jesus Christ, but they may have no idea who he is, what he did.

I'm not sure I understand your point above. The Gospel is about Jesus Christ, so I don't know how you can truly know the Lord without knowing the Gospels (Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John). Please explain and we'll try to help.

Jeff

 

[christian08]

Most people know our Lord. But I am pretty sure many don't know the Gospel. Things will be more obvious if we think of the situation 2000 years ago. When Jesus was still alive, of course, at that time, only small amount of people know the Gospel, like his disciples. Furthermore, I don't know how people before Jesus get salvation.

Well... The Lord hasn't come yet. lol, unfortunately. so I'm sure since He hasn't come, there's still much more work to be done for His kingdom. As for salvation of those before the Lord's ministry... Those who knew of YHWH, God our Creator, and put their faith in Him. Mainly the Jews around those times, i.e. Abraham, Moses, Daniel, Isaiah etc. Their souls were in what they called paradise, not heaven mind you, basically waiting for their Messiah to come and bring them up. They couldn't go up and be with the Lord yet b/c Jesus had to come and conquer death, clean our sins with His sacrifice. Remember, Jesus tells the story of a rich man and poor man on earth. When they died, they weren't in heaven, the poor man was in "Abrahams bossom", which is the paradise- being comforted while waiting, and the rich man was in Sheol, which is a waiting place for those to be judged. This in my opinion is a point past "the milk" so to speak. So to keep it simple here. They were waiting for their Messiah even after death. Once He came, our Lord Jesus, they were finally able to be with the Lord after He conquered death and wiped our sins away for those who believe. Like I said this, in my opinion, is a tougher teaching. Hence, Paul and Peter refer to us craving milk first then moving on to solid foods, so to speak. If there's something you don't understand I will try better next time, just let me know my friend.

 

[Webers_Home]

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RE: When Jesus was still alive, of course, at that time, only small amount of people know the Gospel, like his disciples. Furthermore, I don't know how people before Jesus get salvation.

Be careful about making the all-too-common mistake of assuming that the word "gospel" always means the same thing every time in every era regardless of the context.

I'm aware of at least four gospels.

1) the everlasting gospel (Rev 14:6-7)

2) the gospel of the kingdom (Mtt 24:14)

3) the gospel of the cross (Mrk 16:15-16)

4) the Old Testament gospel (Heb 4:2)

Regardless of which of those four gospels one is privy to; salvation has always been by one's faith rather than by one's conduct.

†. Hab 2:4 . .The righteous shall live by his faith.

So then, even though people in the Old Testament didn't have as many details as we have today; all they had to do was believe, and act, upon whatever information they were given.

But those people knew a whole lot more about Christ than is given them credit. Abraham, for example, was fully aware of a coming redeemer.

†. John 8:56 . .Your father Abraham rejoiced at the thought of seeing my day— he saw it and was glad.

Jacob was aware of a coming redeemer too.

†. Gen 49:18 . . I have waited for thy salvation; oh Lord.

The whole 53rd chapter of Isaiah reveals that Yhvh's people were fully advised of a coming redeemer.

†. Isa 53:5-6 . . He was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed. All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and Yhvh hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

Unfortunately, the people to whom the Old Testament gospel was sent didn't think much of it.

†. Isa 53:1 . .Who has believed our report? And to whom has the arm of Yhvh been revealed?

†. Heb 4:2 . . For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it

C.L.I.F.F.
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[christian08]

Weber... Man how do you just pull all of this out of your head brother? No insult, but I see your older. How long have you been with the Lord?

 

[Webers_Home]

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RE: How long have you been with the Lord?

Since February of 1968— going on 42 years.

RE: how do you just pull all of this out of your head?

What you see is the result of many tedious hours of research, Sunday school lessons, lectures, seminars, debates, discussions, and comprehensive Bible classes.

I've also had the benefit of a good deal of supernatural tutoring.

†. 1John 2:26-27 . . I am writing these things to you about those who are trying to lead you astray. As for you, the anointing you received from him remains in you, and you do not need anyone to teach you. But as his anointing teaches you about all things and as that anointing is real, not counterfeit— just as it has taught you, remain in him.

John isn't saying that believers can get by without Bible teachers because his contemporary, Paul, said that teachers are a gift from Christ to his church for their own good. (Eph 4:11-16)

However, a human Bible teacher is very limited in what they can do for their students. The one thing they cannot do is give them a feel for the truth; in other words they cannot give their students an intuitive grasp of the truth.

What 1John 2:26-27 is saying is that God's Spirit is the custodian of holy writ; and not only enables believers to recognize the truth when they hear it, but also enables them to understand it and to accept it; viz: believers enjoy a degree of inspiration; which is absolutely essential because the unaided mortal mind cannot intuitively recognize, understand, nor accept, nor properly apply the Bible's information any other way. (cf. Deut 29:3, Isa 6:9-10, Ezek 12:1, and 1Cor 2:1-16)

†. 1Cor 2:14 . .The man without The Spirit does not accept the things that come from The Spirit of God, for they are absurd to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.

The word "spiritually" isn't a reference to symbols and metaphors. It's simply saying that the Bible cannot be correctly understood, nor it's truths correctly applied, on a merely intellectual level because its teachings are expressions of the mind of God, and no natural-born human being can intuitively understand the rationale of the mind of God.

†. 1Cor 2:10-14 . .The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God. For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the human spirit within him? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God. We have not received the spirit of the world but the Spirit who is from God, that we may understand what God has freely given us. This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, expressing spiritual truths in spiritual words.

What that's saying is that there are professional preachers out there with ThD's from Bible colleges and seminaries who don't have a clue what the hell they're talking about; while lummox, low brow, uneducated hillbilly coal miners do when their personal tutor is God's Spirit.

†. Acts 4:13 . . Now when they saw the boldness of Peter and John, and perceived that they were unlearned and ignorant men, they marveled

†. 1Cor 1:26-29 . . Brethren, think of what you were when you were called. Not many of you were intelligent by human standards; not many were influential; not many were of noble birth. But God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the intelligent; God chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong. He chose the lowly things of this world and the despised things— and the things that are not —to nullify the things that are, so that no one may brag before Him.

C.L.I.F.F.
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[christian08]

well man. I hope the Lord does the same for my family and I when it's been 42 years and more. He's blessed you my brother. Good to see.

 

[ywl]

So does this means that Jesus will go to paradise and Sheol to save people or spiritis there?

Well... The Lord hasn't come yet. lol, unfortunately. so I'm sure since He hasn't come, there's still much more work to be done for His kingdom. As for salvation of those before the Lord's ministry... Those who knew of YHWH, God our Creator, and put their faith in Him. Mainly the Jews around those times, i.e. Abraham, Moses, Daniel, Isaiah etc. Their souls were in what they called paradise, not heaven mind you, basically waiting for their Messiah to come and bring them up. They couldn't go up and be with the Lord yet b/c Jesus had to come and conquer death, clean our sins with His sacrifice. Remember, Jesus tells the story of a rich man and poor man on earth. When they died, they weren't in heaven, the poor man was in "Abrahams bossom", which is the paradise- being comforted while waiting, and the rich man was in Sheol, which is a waiting place for those to be judged. This in my opinion is a point past "the milk" so to speak. So to keep it simple here. They were waiting for their Messiah even after death. Once He came, our Lord Jesus, they were finally able to be with the Lord after He conquered death and wiped our sins away for those who believe. Like I said this, in my opinion, is a tougher teaching. Hence, Paul and Peter refer to us craving milk first then moving on to solid foods, so to speak. If there's something you don't understand I will try better next time, just let me know my friend.