About origins.

[philadiddle]

According to YEC, all dogs have a common ancestor, a dog. I was wondering what exactly that common ancestor is and how does the fossil record support it?

 

[shernren]

That's a good question, but I haven't heard a good answer yet.

 

[Didaskomenos]

"All I know is what I read in the Bible!"

 

[billwald]

DNA analysis supports it?

 

[david_x]

DNA says 50% of our DNA is the same as a banana.

 

[random_guy]

DNA says 50% of our DNA is the same as a banana.

And what's the problem? If all of life descended from a common ancestor, shouldn't we share similar sequences?

If you put up other stats, you'll quickly see that a pattern emerges.

Chimps 98.7%
Mouse 98%
Nematode 74%

Of course, these statistics really don't mean anything because I couldn't find out what the % actually mean when they say DNA in common. Are they comparing coding sequences, genes, or introns? These are important questions that you need to know if you actually plan form some sort of argument.

 

[Crusadar]

According to YEC, all dogs have a common ancestor, a dog. I was wondering what exactly that common ancestor is and how does the fossil record support it?

Creationists do believe that the present variety of dogs today are descended from an original dog type - but it is evolutionists who are the ones who have confirmed this through genetics:

“The origin of the domestic dog from wolves has been established---we examined the (mt DNA) mitochondrial DNA sequence variation among 654 domestic dogs representing all major dog populations worldwide---suggesting a common origin from a single gene pool for all dog populations.”

-Savolainen, P., Zhang, Y.P., Luo, J., Lundeberg, J. and Leitner, T., Genetic Evidence for an East Asian Origin of Domestic Dogs” Science 22 Nov '02 vol 298(5598): pp1610–1613.

“Two-kilogram teacup poodles; 90-kg mastiffs; slender greyhounds; squat English bulldogs: For a single species, canines come in a vast array of shapes and sizes. Even more remarkably, they all come from the same stock. --- Only subtle differences distinguish dogs from coyotes, jackals, and other canids, making family trees difficult to construct and the timing of the transition from wolf to dog hard to pinpoint.”

-Pennisi, E., “A Shaggy Dog History”, 22 Nov '02 Science vol 298(5598)p1540–1542.

 

[shernren]

“The origin of the domestic dog from wolves has been established---we examined the (mt DNA) mitochondrial DNA sequence variation among 654 domestic dogs representing all major dog populations worldwide---suggesting a common origin from a single gene pool for all dog populations.”

This is precisely what evolution predicts. Evolution would be weakened instead if it was shown that the origins of the dogs was polyphyletic instead of monophyletic - if it could be shown that dogs here are descended from gene pool A and there from gene pool B and there from gene pool C. On the other hand, it is now up to baraminologists to show that that entire gene pool could be contained in two ancestral organisms, no more.

 

[random_guy]

According to YEC, all dogs have a common ancestor, a dog. I was wondering what exactly that common ancestor is and how does the fossil record support it?

Creationists do believe that the present variety of dogs today are descended from an original dog type - but it is evolutionists who are the ones who have confirmed this through genetics:

“The origin of the domestic dog from wolves has been established---we examined the (mt DNA) mitochondrial DNA sequence variation among 654 domestic dogs representing all major dog populations worldwide---suggesting a common origin from a single gene pool for all dog populations.”

-Savolainen, P., Zhang, Y.P., Luo, J., Lundeberg, J. and Leitner, T., Genetic Evidence for an East Asian Origin of Domestic Dogs” Science 22 Nov '02 vol 298(5598): pp1610–1613.

“Two-kilogram teacup poodles; 90-kg mastiffs; slender greyhounds; squat English bulldogs: For a single species, canines come in a vast array of shapes and sizes. Even more remarkably, they all come from the same stock. --- Only subtle differences distinguish dogs from coyotes, jackals, and other canids, making family trees difficult to construct and the timing of the transition from wolf to dog hard to pinpoint.”

-Pennisi, E., “A Shaggy Dog History”, 22 Nov '02 Science vol 298(5598)p1540–1542.

Something I've always wondered is why Creationist accept some science and reject others. The same science used to determine the ancestory of dogs is used to determine the ancestory of humans.

 

[Crusadar]

Something I've always wondered is why Creationist accept some science and reject others. The same science used to determine the ancestory of dogs is used to determine the ancestory of humans.

The conclusion of wolves remain in the dog kind and is according to what scripture says. After all if I am not mistaken all members of the genus Canis family can interbreed - now whether they choose to or not is another story. The conclusion of apes as being human acestors has no bases in genetics, even with the 95-98% similiarities in DNA, humans and apes cannot interbreed.

 

[shernren]

Can wolves have intercourse with dogs? Honest question.

 

[random_guy]

Can wolves have intercourse with dogs? Honest question.

Some can, some can't.

 

[charityagape]

I'm pretty sure they're genetically compatible. I doubt you'd ever see a poodle running off to do the wild thing with a wild wolf (more likely he'd be lunch) but I belief they are genetically compatible. I think I'll look into that. What would be even more interesting to know is, is a house tabby genetically compatible with a tiger? I have seen a cat that was half housecat half bobcat.

 

[philadiddle]

The conclusion of wolves remain in the dog kind and is according to what scripture says. After all if I am not mistaken all members of the genus Canis family can interbreed - now whether they choose to or not is another story. The conclusion of apes as being human acestors has no bases in genetics, even with the 95-98% similiarities in DNA, humans and apes cannot interbreed.

there are about 800,000 species of beetle which cannot interbreed, did noah take them all? what about some feline species that can't interbreed? house cats and tigers can't breed. your model falls apart even when someone just scratches the surface.

i'll ask again, how does the fossil record support the YEC model?

 

[AndrewinIdaho]

New dog breeds come from breeding two different kinds of Dogs togeather. We know that the present day dog breeds come from the Wolf and have been bred for certain charictaristics.

This is known as selective breeding, (survival of the fittiest in the wild) and has plenty of evidence to support it.

However, if you go back into time before the wolf, that is where you start losing credibility for evolution the fossil record is too incomplete, most of the missing link dinosaurs have been show to be two different animals, the main one that comes to mind is the Archeopteryx

 

[random_guy]

New dog breeds come from breeding two different kinds of Dogs togeather. We know that the present day dog breeds come from the Wolf and have been bred for certain charictaristics.

This is known as selective breeding, (survival of the fittiest in the wild) and has plenty of evidence to support it.

However, if you go back into time before the wolf, that is where you start losing credibility for evolution the fossil record is too incomplete, most of the missing link dinosaurs have been show to be two different animals, the main one that comes to mind is the Archeopteryx

Are you sure about this? In the news, there's been a very recent discovery.

[font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] According to a study of the fossil conducted by German and US scientists, the feet of Archaeopteryx have been found to be anatomically similar to those of theropods. The findings of the study have been published in the latest issue of the journal Science. The researchers observed that the creature had theropod dinosaur-like feet for walking on the ground and not birdlike feet for perching.

So what is it, a bird or a dinosaur?
[/font]

 

[philadiddle]

New dog breeds come from breeding two different kinds of Dogs togeather. We know that the present day dog breeds come from the Wolf and have been bred for certain charictaristics.

wolves and domestic dogs share a common ancestor, domestic dogs didn't come directly from wolves. you're lack of understanding of the theory of evolution is starting to show.

This is known as selective breeding, (survival of the fittiest in the wild) and has plenty of evidence to support it.

yes, i agree

However, if you go back into time before the wolf, that is where you start losing credibility for evolution the fossil record is too incomplete, most of the missing link dinosaurs have been show to be two different animals, the main one that comes to mind is the Archeopteryx

so y do canis fossils only go back so far? y are genus fossils found below them?

explain this to me

Chiwawa and Great Danes go back to Canis

Canis, wild dogs, wolves, maned wolves, and foxes (which aren't dogs) go back to Canidae

Canidae, bears, wolverines, sea lions, raccons etc go back to the Canoidea.

Canoidea and Feloidea (cats, meerkats, fossas, bearcats etc) go back to the Carnivora.

is what u need to explain is why the fossils are found in this order, and y are canis not found alongside carnivora? after all, according to the YEC model they all existed at the same time

 

[gluadys]

most of the missing link dinosaurs have been show to be two different animals, the main one that comes to mind is the Archeopteryx

Actually, only one was shown to be two different animals, and it was not Archeopteryx, it was called Archeoraptor until it was properly examined and found to be two separate fossils.

Both fossils were genuine. They just didn't belong together.

There are eight fossil specimens of Archeopteryx and none have been found to be chimeras.

 

[fragmentsofdreams]

DNA says 50% of our DNA is the same as a banana.

We share a lot of our cellular structure with bananas.

 

[charityagape]

Someone said it was 75% to the banana? Anyone know the truth?