abortion?

[arj1981]

this guessing game has become intriguing. I didn't know that fact about a chicken egg. Interesting!

*Sits back and watches the show*

 

[arj1981]

I don't have an opinion on homosexuality either. I wonder if that will come next.

 

[chris4243]

this guessing game has become intriguing. I didn't know that fact about a chicken egg. Interesting!

Yeah... turns out people really don't like breaking open an egg and getting a chicken fetus. I think the eggs are checked for being unfertilized by shining a bright light through them.

 

[arj1981]

Thanks to another thread here, I found the news article I was referencing above.

The hospital’s offense? It had terminated a pregnancy to save the life of the mother. The hospital says the 27-year-old woman, a mother of four children, would almost certainly have died otherwise.

Bishop Olmsted initially excommunicated a nun, Sister Margaret McBride, who had been on the hospital’s ethics committee and had approved of the decision. That seems to have been a failed attempt to bully the hospital into submission, but it refused to cave and continues to employ Sister Margaret. Now the bishop, in effect, is excommunicating the entire hospital — all because it saved a woman’s life.

Varying shades of gray within this single paragraph.

Wow, I just realized in this article this woman is 2 years younger than me. SoS, if this were u, you would've been dead in about three more years. And she had FOUR kids already. They all really were just babies. The article doesn't say but the oldest couldn't have been no more than 8 or 9 if u do the math. And I guess losing a mother at that tender age isn't considered tragic. I bet the youngest one was still nursing and this Bishop doesn't even care about ANY of these factors. I would be ashamed to call myself pro-life in the face of scum like this. God can be cruel but He also shows compassion whereas, unanimously, pro-lifers seem to lack the latter. And that's ironic when you consider the fact that they ramble on and on about unborn embryos all day long.

 

[brightmorningstar]

Lux et Lex,
You have shown a picture of what you call an egg. Just so you may think my argument as crazy as yours assume I think its a football and first try and convince me it isnt. Whe you can recognise a baby, I'll recognise an egg.

Whats this..

born 21 weeks... not a person? In the UK a person such as this can be aborted.

Now for a poached egg ofr breakfast I think

 

[katautumn]

I remember when I was pregnant with my son. I found out around five weeks into gestation. My OB told me they would not be able to accurately pick up his heartbeat until eight weeks. It seemed like time dragged on forever until that prenatal check-up. I remember being afraid they wouldn't detect a heartbeat, as I'd known women that had happened to. I miscarried very early in a pregnancy when I was married to my first husband, so I was still very afraid of losing another baby.

Anyway, I remember the doctor came in and my grandmother went to this appointment with me. She and the doctor made small talk about how both of them were from Maine and how awesome lobster rolls are. Anyway, when he picked up the strong and fast heartbeat of my son it was like my world stood still. Now, I got to hear that heartbeat at every visit and it never got old, but it was that first time I heard it that I was able to make a connection to my son, because it was so real at that point.

I mean, as a woman it's hard to explain to both men and women who've never experienced this, but when you are pregnant and your body has been taken over by this tiny little life and you don't even feel like yourself any more, like someone has hijacked the old you and replaced you with this tired, moody, emotional, nauseous, having to pee all the time monstrosity and there is no outward evidence there is a baby growing inside of you (at least not until you show) it's hard to make that connection. But when they can let you listen to the heartbeat it becomes very, very real.

 

[arj1981]

So, Kat, basically you are saying you would want the chance (at least) to stick around and experience motherhood with this new life growing inside of you? I understand. I would feel the same way too.

 

[brightmorningstar]

KatAutumn,
I agree with you, the baby is growing inside, the baby may be at foetal stage.

 

[lux et lex]

Lux et Lex,
You have shown a picture of what you call an egg. Just so you may think my argument as crazy as yours assume I think its a football and first try and convince me it isnt. Whe you can recognise a baby, I'll recognise an egg.

Whats this..

born 21 weeks... not a person? In the UK a person such as this can be aborted.

Now for a poached egg ofr breakfast I think

Never said it wasn't. If the fetus can be delivered safely without heroic measures needed in order to save it, that's the best option. In the states, late term abortions are only for rare cases, and generally something is very, very wrong with either the woman or the fetus and it is medically necessary, not merely a "oh I don't want this anymore" situation.

 

[Aibrean]

I so hope Ohio passes the heartbeat bill. If a heartbeat is detected they can't perform an abortion.

Here's another scenario... Do those people in ICU deserve to have their plugs pulled simply because their bodies are incapable of supporting them without assistance?

 

[lux et lex]

I so hope Ohio passes the heartbeat bill. If a heartbeat is detected they can't perform an abortion.

Well that would be a disaster and a direct challenge to Roe. These fetuses would also have a heart beat, but are non-viable. Anencephaly - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia What say you?

 

[chris4243]

I so hope Ohio passes the heartbeat bill. If a heartbeat is detected they can't perform an abortion.

Any animal has a heartbeat. It's our brain that makes us special.

Here's another scenario... Do those people in ICU deserve to have their plugs pulled simply because their bodies are incapable of supporting them without assistance?

If they're not going to recover and aren't conscious, they're essentially already dead*. If they've never been conscious, they essentially have never been alive*.

*as a person, not as a collection of cells.

 

[katautumn]

Any animal has a heartbeat. It's our brain that makes us special.

So you're saying someone with lesser capacity to think and reason is less of a human, by that logic. Animals have brains as well.

If they're not going to recover and aren't conscious, they're essentially already dead*. If they've never been conscious, they essentially have never been alive*.

*as a person, not as a collection of cells.

A fetus isn't a mere "collection of cells" at random. At some point in gestation it takes on the shape of a human baby and has the ability to feel. Just because it hasn't taken in the sights, sounds, smells and tastes of the world outside of the womb does not mean it is not alive. It's a living entity from the beginning of pregnancy. Whether it has rights or not is the question, not whether it's a living thing or has the genetic components that make it a human.

 

[chris4243]

So you're saying someone with lesser capacity to think and reason is less of a human, by that logic. Animals have brains as well.

Yes... but still a human so long as they meet certain requirements. Someone with their brain largely gone, I would no longer consider a person (perhaps a dead person).

A fetus isn't a mere "collection of cells" at random. At some point in gestation it takes on the shape of a human baby and has the ability to feel. Just because it hasn't taken in the sights, sounds, smells and tastes of the world outside of the womb does not mean it is not alive. It's a living entity from the beginning of pregnancy. Whether it has rights or not is the question, not whether it's a living thing or has the genetic components that make it a human.

We're all a collection of cells. We're all an organism. And we're all a person. If you were to die as a person, but scientists preserve your cells as a cell culture, you'd be alive as a collection of cells but dead as a person and as an organism. If most of your body is alive but your brain is excessively damaged, you're alive as an organism and dead as a person. Conversely, if someone were to copy the information in your brain to a computer (so that someone could chat with you and not be able to tell the difference) and your body then died, then you'd be alive as a person but dead as an organism.

 

[brightmorningstar]

Lux et Lex,

Never said it wasn't.

Never said it wasn’t a person? Are you sure?

If the fetus can be delivered safely without heroic measures needed in order to save it, that's the best option.

The person you mean.

In the states,

OI don’t live in the States.

and generally something is very, very wrong with either the woman or the fetus and it is medically necessary, not merely a "oh I don't want this anymore" situation.

There is not necessarily always something wrong with the woman who wants to kill her own baby, frequently they are mislead by the trickery of the pro-choice thinking to believe the baby is not a human being but a foetus.

Not surprisingly you missed the point. The photo is of a human being, a baby that is 21 weeks old, the similar baby at 21 weeks old may be killed by abortion by the choice of the mother in some countries. The photo is to show that the entity you are referring to is a human being and a baby, not merely some clump of cells. If we posted pictures of human beings could we tell them from clumps of cells?

The baby in the womb is as much a bunch of cells as we are, as much human beings in development as the human beings we developed as, the fact that at certain stages there is no sentience or consciousness is actually an advantage for the person when looking at the pro-choice insanity.

 

[brightmorningstar]

chris4243,

Yes... but still a human so long as they meet certain requirements. Someone with their brain largely gone, I would no longer consider a person (perhaps a dead person).

Ah but your requirements are different from mine, the US one are different from other countries and different from what the Nazis would have thought.
Its that sort of dangerous arrogance we need to tackle.

 

[lux et lex]

I'm only looking at this from a US perspective. I don't have the time to waste looking up the nuances of the laws of every country. And it seems as though you're talking about something you don't know about (read: US law) when you speak about late term abortions with me.

 

[brightmorningstar]

Lux et Lex,

I'm only looking at this from a US perspective. I don't have the time to waste looking up the nuances of the laws of every country.

Firstly you are in a global debating forum and secondly no one is asking you to, the only reason you might want to do so would be to check the differences people say are in fact true.
thus…

And it seems as though you're talking about something you don't know about (read: US law) when you speak about late term abortions with me.

it shows you may not know and in typical liberal style are trying to diffuse and confuse by making the accusation.

 

[zairsmith]

I'm only looking at this from a US perspective. I don't have the time to waste looking up the nuances of the laws of every country. And it seems as though you're talking about something you don't know about (read: US law) when you speak about late term abortions with me.

How could you only look at it in a US perspective when God is the God of the universe. Are you suggesting that God only governs the US? The lengths some people will go when they are backed against a wall facing their self generated demons is unprecedented. Just admit that your provision makes no sense....oh by the way I live in California but I'm gonna guess that I'm only looking at it from a Californian perspective, right?

 

[zairsmith]

Legalism tries to confine God in a box and I promise you that God is bigger than any box you can think of...so stop looking at it from a legalized pov. Abortion is a spiritual and moral issue that supports the enemy's hatred of man along with everything else that decimates human life.