Abortion

[jesusfreak3786]

Consider this:

there are theories that violence can be passed down in some way through genes.

Would you take the risk that your child would turn out violence and possibly rape others?

I know if i were woman, and I were raped, I'd try to get a morning after pill ASAP.

Thats just passing the blame, We all make our own choices, regardless of our tendencys.

 

[Jetgirl]

Thats just passing the blame, We all make our own choices, regardless of our tendencys.

And being raped is a choice how exactly?

 

[jesusfreak3786]

And being raped is a choice how exactly?

Read the post mine was in responce to, your question makes no sense in reletivity to the subject.

 

[Jetgirl]

Read the post mine was in responce to, your question makes no sense in reletivity to the subject.

Oops, my bad. You're right, makes no sense. :o

 

[jesusfreak3786]

Oops, my bad. You're right, makes no sense. :o

No prob

 

[In A Perfect World]

Thats just passing the blame, We all make our own choices, regardless of our tendencys.

Understanding blame.

People who inherit AIDs, or diseases didn't choose to get them. Same with the "violence" gene. Who knows? It may not exist. But if it did, would it change your mind about abortion? Ya know, bringing an already angry soul into the world who could possibly rape others? It kinda sens the message rape is ok.

 

[maha]

I heard a really sick story from a third party that had to do with the techncians at an abortion clinic. I don't know if it was true or if it is just an urban myth, but it's pretty appalling to say the least. I also don't know if the story is congruent with how the abortion process works, so I don't know if it is even a possibility that something like this could happen...but...

...Allegedly an employee at an abortion clinic claimed that some of the other doctors and technicians would take the aborted fetus's and play with their bodies like marionettes--dangling them by the arms and otherwise playing with them like dolls as if they were some sort of demented puppeteer. Again, I don't know if the fetus in its early stages of development would even be able to be handled in such a way after it was aborted, but it is an incredibly disgusting and sadistic thing to do if the story is true.

I wouldn't put it past a person (or people) to do something like that. When you deal with the deaths of babies everyday, you probably become desensitized to the humanity of it all. I know that emergency room doctors engage in random conversations, sometimes even laughing hysterically, as they are trying to save dying patients. It's just kind of sad that people can deaden themselves to the suffering of others...no matter what the circumstances. I'm pro-choice, but stories like that don't make it easy for me.

 

[In A Perfect World]

I heard a really sick story from a third party that had to do with the techncians at an abortion clinic. I don't know if it was true or if it is just an urban myth, but it's pretty appalling to say the least. I also don't know if the story is congruent with how the abortion process works, so I don't know if it is even a possibility that something like this could happen...but...

...Allegedly an employee at an abortion clinic claimed that some of the other doctors and technicians would take the aborted fetus's and play with their bodies like marionettes--dangling them by the arms and otherwise playing with them like dolls as if they were some sort of demented puppeteer. Again, I don't know if the fetus in its early stages of development would even be able to be handled in such a way after it was aborted, but it is an incredibly disgusting and sadistic thing to do if the story is true.

I wouldn't put it past a person (or people) to do something like that. When you deal with the deaths of babies everyday, you probably become desensitized to the humanity of it all. I know that emergency room doctors engage in random conversations, sometimes even laughing hysterically, as they are trying to save dying patients. It's just kind of sad that people can deaden themselves to the suffering of others...no matter what the circumstances. I'm pro-choice, but stories like that don't make it easy for me.

Yeah I hear that. That's very disgusting and repulsive. They should have their licenses revoked IMHO. There was recently a story about an abortion doctor who used to keep fetuses in the employee frdige and eat them for lunch.

 

[Jetgirl]

Yeah I hear that. That's very disgusting and repulsive. They should have their licenses revoked IMHO. There was recently a story about an abortion doctor who used to keep fetuses in the employee frdige and eat them for lunch.

Link, and/or support?

 

[In A Perfect World]

Link, and/or support?

I can't remember which big site I found the original article on, but here is what i did find:

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=44779

I'm not sure if there is any truth to this though. Could have been a pro-life attempt to fake a "leak".

 

[Steve_SandbachBaptist_UK]

Why couldn't god have made it so that people only acquired sexual desires AFTER marriage if that was his plan?

He had to create a Plan B after the fall of Adam and Eve. Sin came into the world when they lost their innocence, according to Genesis.

 

[Steve_SandbachBaptist_UK]

And being raped is a choice how exactly?

Being raped is not a choice, but aborting a child is. Even the produce of a rapist is sacred and should be treated as such. I can understand the woman wanting to abort a child who was conceived via rape but I wouldn't encourage anyone to do it.

If you asked the majority of people who were conceived through a rape whether they wish they'd been aborted, I doubt many would say "yes".

Edit - typo

 

[jesusfreak3786]

Understanding blame.

People who inherit AIDs, or diseases didn't choose to get them. Same with the "violence" gene. Who knows? It may not exist. But if it did, would it change your mind about abortion? Ya know, bringing an already angry soul into the world who could possibly rape others? It kinda sens the message rape is ok.

No it sends the message that abortion is ok. Rape is not accepted behavior, but abortion is, it's discusting. I would not change my mind, even idf there is a proven tendency, we all make our own choices, no one makes them for us. If a person has the desire to murder, it is diffrent than if that person chooses to murder, you would be surprised at how many poeple think about it but never do it. It's the choice an individial makes that is the true factor, not the tendincy.

 

[Seeking...]

Being raped a choice, but aborting a child is. Even the produce of a rapist is sacred and should be treated as such. I can understand the woman wanting to abort a child who was conceived via rape but I wouldn't encourage anyone to do it.

If you asked the majority of people who were conceived through a rape whether they wish they'd been aborted, I doubt many would say "yes".

Whether the child is sacred or not has little to do with whether or not the traumatized woman is capable of carrying such a child to term. What you don't seem to understand is that despite a belief in God(s), therapy, and a belief in the sanctity of life - some women will not be able to carry a non-consensual pregnancy to term. They would rather die first.

I simply cannot equate the non-viable life of a early term fetus with that of its mother. Her needs, whether physical, emotional, spiritial or material take precedence.

 

[Jetgirl]

Eek, didn't mean for this much discussion to come out of my post mistake, but anyway...

Whether the child is sacred or not has little to do with whether or not the traumatized woman is capable of carrying such a child to term. What you don't seem to understand is that despite a belief in God(s), therapy, and a belief in the sanctity of life - some women will not be able to carry a non-consensual pregnancy to term. They would rather die first.

I might be one of those.

Even if I did make it through the pregnancy, it would be with gritted teeth, and I'd have to give the baby up for adoption, it wouldn't be right to raise a child under a cloud like that.

I simply cannot equate the non-viable life of a early term fetus with that of its mother. Her needs, whether physical, emotional, spiritial or material take precedence.

I agree.

 

[truth_restorer]

When people use the term viabilty, they seem to think it will make that person less human; yet, people on life support systems are in the same postion, as is someone unconscious from drowning and not breathing, as is someone undergoing a heart attack whose heart has stopped. All this is irrelevant to the fact that unborn children, those having those heart attacks, those who drown and can be resuscitated, all have the key element that makes them a human being - living, self-replicating, 100% complete human DNA; the essence of what life is and, more specifically, what human life is.

I can understand that a human being who comes into the world through an act of rape is a reminder of a traumatic incident with probably many scars attendant to it, but that human being did not ask to come into the world in such a way either and is also a victim, as is the woman. Please consider this child.

Shalom

 

[Seeking...]

When people use the term viabilty, they seem to think it will make that person less human; yet, people on life support systems are in the same postion, as is someone unconscious from drowning and not breathing, as is someone undergoing a heart attack whose heart has stopped. All this is irrelevant to the fact that unborn children, those having those heart attacks, those who drown and can be resuscitated, all have the key element that makes them a human being - living, self-replicating, 100% complete human DNA; the essence of what life is and, more specifically, what human life is.

I can understand that a human being who comes into the world through an act of rape is a reminder of a traumatic incident with probably many scars attendant to it, but that human being did not ask to come into the world in such a way either and is also a victim, as is the woman. Please consider this child.

Shalom

I don't assume that a non-viable baby is less human. It is still a child, but it is not in the same position as someone who has a heart attack or drowns. That non-viable baby is inside of another living person who must deal with the fact that it is there every second of her life. The fact that the child is there is a continuing violation and a reminder of the initial violation that put it there. For some women, looking at her changing body would be a constant reminder that some man saw her as a human receptacle. She was powerless to prevent the assault and if abortion were illegal - she'd be powerless again. It simply isn't about the child. If a woman is able to bear the pain and is willing to - fine, support her through her pregnancy. But if she is not capable - do not force her to carry such a pregnancy to term. I know myself well enough to know that I wouldn't make it. I rather take a long walk off a short ledge than walk around for nine months being aware every moment that I had no rights to my own body. A person on a respirator isn't the same, they aren't attached to another person's body against their will.

 

[Cheli]

Even the produce of a rapist is sacred

As George Carlin said, "Life is sacred? Who said so? God? If you read history you'll see that god is one of the leading causes of death!"

I simply cannot equate the non-viable life of a early term fetus with that of its mother. Her needs, whether physical, emotional, spiritial or material take precedence

I agree completely.

I can understand that a human being who comes into the world through an act of rape is a reminder of a traumatic incident with probably many scars attendant to it, but that human being did not ask to come into the world in such a way either and is also a victim, as is the woman. Please consider this child.

There is no CHILD to consider. The embryo would not have an opinion on whether or not it surives as it has no sentience. This is a redundant point.

A person on a respirator isn't the same, they aren't attached to another person's body against their will.

Isn't there a pro-choice argument like this that uses the analogy of forcing somebody to share a kidney with a famous violinist? I can;t remember how it goes off-hand.

 

[HouseApe]

When people use the term viabilty, they seem to think it will make that person less human; yet, people on life support systems are in the same postion, as is someone unconscious from drowning and not breathing, as is someone undergoing a heart attack whose heart has stopped. All this is irrelevant to the fact that unborn children, those having those heart attacks, those who drown and can be resuscitated, all have the key element that makes them a human being - living, self-replicating, 100% complete human DNA; the essence of what life is and, more specifically, what human life is.

I can understand that a human being who comes into the world through an act of rape is a reminder of a traumatic incident with probably many scars attendant to it, but that human being did not ask to come into the world in such a way either and is also a victim, as is the woman. Please consider this child.

Shalom

So why is the life of a cell with human DNA more important than the liberty of a human woman?

 

[truth_restorer]

I don't assume that a non-viable baby is less human. It is still a child, but it is not in the same position as someone who has a heart attack or drowns. That non-viable baby is inside of another living person who must deal with the fact that it is there every second of her life. The fact that the child is there is a continuing violation and a reminder of the initial violation that put it there. For some women, looking at her changing body would be a constant reminder that some man saw her as a human receptacle. She was powerless to prevent the assault and if abortion were illegal - she'd be powerless again. It simply isn't about the child. If a woman is able to bear the pain and is willing to - fine, support her through her pregnancy. But if she is not capable - do not force her to carry such a pregnancy to term. I know myself well enough to know that I wouldn't make it. I rather take a long walk off a short ledge than walk around for nine months being aware every moment that I had no rights to my own body. A person on a respirator isn't the same, they aren't attached to another person's body against their will.

The essence of my point here is that they are both equal as far as their humanity goes because both are living complete human DNA. Living, growing, human DNA = human life. We are all just human DNA of a lesser or greater age. Seeing the unborn child as a "human being", on a par with yourself is a prerequisite to any desire or ability to carry it to term. Without such a conception of it as the full human that it is, there would be no incentive to follow through to term. So, the definitional issue is the operative issue; the threshhold issue.

Shalom