Abortion

[Lee Fey]

I was wondering, exactly what passages other than Psalm 139 address the unborn child and the value of it. And if there are any passages that relate to the idea that conceived children are actually people.

 

[AngelusSax]

Even though Pslam 22 is really a prophetic Psalm about Christ and His purpose, it does say, in verse 10, "...from my mother's womb you have been my God."

That's all I can think of for right now.

 

[jbarcher]

I was wondering, exactly what passages other than Psalm 139 address the unborn child and the value of it. And if there are any passages that relate to the idea that conceived children are actually people.

I find that one does not need to even bring in Scripture, but instead use SLED and other facts of science. http://www.str.org/free/bioethics/index.htm will yield some very useful material. For stuff relating specifically to verses, see here: http://www.tektonics.org/TK-A.html

 

[Iacobus]

I was wondering, exactly what passages other than Psalm 139 address the unborn child and the value of it. And if there are any passages that relate to the idea that conceived children are actually people.

Hi Lee Fey

There are other scripture verses, but my Bible isn't handy, so I'll leave that for later. But....you might be interested in what the earliest Christians said about abortion. This is a selection of quotes, ranging from about AD 70 (the Didache) to about the 3rd century:

From the Letter to Diognetus (speaking of what distinguishes Christians from pagans): “They marry, as do all others; they beget children but they do not destroy their offspring” (literally, “cast away fetuses”).



From the Didache (Teachings of the 12 August Apostles): “You shall not slay the child by abortions.”



From the Letter of Barnabus: “You shall not destroy your conceptions before they are brought forth; nor kill them after they are born.”



From St. Clement: “Those who use abortifacients commit homicide.”



From Tertullian: “The mold in the womb may not be destroyed.”



From St. Basil the Great: “The woman who purposely destroys her unborn child is guilty of murder. The hair-splitting difference between formed and unformed makes no difference to us.”

In Christ,

James

 

[billwald]

The Mosiac Covenant treated an externally caused miscarriage as a property crime.

 

[johnd]

Exodus 20:13 You shall not murder.

Jeremiah 1:5 "Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born I set you apart; I appointed you as a prophet to the nations."

Exodus 21:22 "If men who are fighting hit a pregnant woman and she gives birth prematurely but there is no serious injury, the offender must be fined whatever the woman’s husband demands and the court allows. 23 But if there is serious injury, you are to take life for life, 24 eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, 25 burn for burn, wound for wound, bruise for bruise.

Regards,

 

[JohnJones]

Jer 1:5 "Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations."

Abortion is most certainly murder. It is a sin.

Now, politically, there is not just the pro-abortion (keep abortion legal AND fund it with federal tax money) and anti-abortion (make abortion illegal) stances, but there is also "abortion is wrong, yet legal, so rather than attempting to make it illegal let's just make sure that it is not funded with taxpayer's money."

 

[johnd]

Interesting that what allows this heinus act to continue is not choice but ignorance.

Most women I have encountered who will even talk about the matter say they did not realize it was their baby that was being put to death. They were either bamboozled by abortionists into believing it was just a blob of flesh like an apendix, or they just did not rationalize it was a life because they were in so mich trouble at the time.

Sex is pitched at people by the entertainment, media, and advertizement industries as an act devoid of consequences.

The reality is that so-called sexual freedom has very drastic and often life-long consequences. One may contracy a sexually transmitted disease that can take their own life or impair their sexual ability for the rest of their life (herpes, or infertility). Or it can each and every time risk pregnancy. That means a life that binds you to that sexual partner for the rest of your life or it means a life to terminate in the womb. And then there's the consquence of higher breast cancer risk, higher infertility risk, and other complications for having had an abortion.

There is an element of being "blissfully ignorant" that keeps the truth out of the main stream (daily life of most). But the thing that brushes back most who would investigate this matter to determine which side of it they would come down on is a satanic anti-life spirit that fuels the passion of the extreemly motivated abortionists. They are motivated. They are convicted. They know which buttons to press with the public and the reactionary sheep most people tend to be.

"Right to choose..."

"Her own body..."

"Sexual freedom..."

God is (surprising to most) Pro-Choice. This is not to say God is pro-abortion. To be sure, God is the greatest anti-abortion advocate!

But abortion is not choice.

You see, choice is having options and in this case information ahead of time. Choice means consquences to choose between (either / or). Pro-abortion is not about choice. It is about murder.

God has made it so that even though it is unlawful to commit murder, everyone has the choice to murder or not murder anyone else. But there are indeed consequences to committing murder.

When I hear the likes of Barbara Boxer talk about keping back alley abortions from ever happening again, I think how this same rhetoric could be used toward all murderous acts. "Keeping murderers from ever having to be on the run ever again..."

We wince when we think of the brutality of the Roman colleseum games... we have a sense of having overcome a bloody blood-thirsty past in the human collective... but we rather only learned how to hide it or live in denial about it.

As Christians we must face the most fundamental truth about what we believe: that every soul has the potential to be saved from an eternal hell in Christ Jesus. How tragic it is that we have somehow managed to force this down inside ourselves as to deny it / ignore it / hope it goes away...

God is Pro-Life.

Amen.

 

[thereselittleflower]

Also, look at John the Baptist:

Luk 1:15 For he will be great in the sight of the Lord. He will never drink wine or any strong drink, and he will be filled with the Holy Spirit even before he is born.



​

And then further:

Luk 1:39 At this time Mary set out hurriedly for a Judean city in the hill country.


Luk 1:40 She went into Zechariah's home and greeted Elizabeth.

Luk 1:41 When Elizabeth heard Mary's greeting, the baby jumped in her womb. Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit

Luk 1:42 and exclaimed with a loud cry, "How blessed are you among women, and how blessed is the fruit of your womb!

Luk 1:43 Why should this happen to me, to have the mother of my Lord visit me!

Luk 1:44 For as soon as the sound of your greeting reached my ears, the baby in my womb jumped for joy.


​

Only a person can jump for joy.



Peace in Him!

 

[Shalia]

JohnD, I think you have the most important point of all.

The biggest inroad we can make right now on an abortion stand is to get people to realize that IT'S A BABY, not just a "clump of cells" or a "fetus" or a "zygote" or any other term that makes it more comfortable to kill. I think getting people to admit that fact alone would significantly drop the number of abortions, w/o even making abortion illegal. But so many groups have made it sound like it's only a "clump of cells" that people actually believe that now. They don't actually connect with the fact they are killing a baby, they think they are "solving a problem" and that's the first thing we can fix, even with abortion still legal.

We, as Christians, need to find ways to help people who feel that abortion is their only way out, and we need to help those that think that they only have a "clump of cells" realize they really have a baby. And we need to do both in such a loving way that we don't come across as zealots, but as people who love both the mother and the baby.

We have a tough job ahead of us, don't we?

 

[thereselittleflower]

We, as Christians, need to find ways to help people who feel that abortion is their only way out, and we need to help those that think that they only have a "clump of cells" realize they really have a baby.

Yes! And not just a baby inside the womb, but a PERSON, for there are those who will readly acknowledge that a "baby" is growing inside the womb, but will not ascribe personhood to it an any way shape or form . . . . And I think that is the heart of the matter . ..

This baby is a PERSON and so, in our country, is entitled to the protection of right to life our constitution provides in the US. .. .

The constitution does not give such a right . . God alone gives that right . . but if a goverment protects and defends that God given right, then we need to see that that protection is upheld; and where it is not protected, that such protection is granted.


I tihnk the OP brings out one way to do demostrate that a baby in the womb is indeed a person and so has a right to live, especially for those who will listen to what scripture has to say on the matter.


The attack on abortion takes a 2 pronged approach . . helping individuals to see that a baby is a person, and coming against all the propaganda put out by those who insist on the right to choose and abortion on demand put out; and to make sure protections that are in place are honored, and if not in place, to work to see that such do get put into place.


But it all hinges on understanding that a fetus is a PERSON.


Peace in Him
1

 

[Lee Fey]

So where in the Bible does it say that all fetuses are people? The passages that are there point to me that they can be interpreted either way. Please help clear the fog in my mind.

 

[AngelusSax]

So where in the Bible does it say that all fetuses are people? The passages that are there point to me that they can be interpreted either way. Please help clear the fog in my mind.

Off the top of my head, Psalm 22 says that "from my mother's womb you have been my God."

Also, do humans give birth to donkeys or tables or chairs? No, they give birth to humans.

Just as a 3 year old and a 90 year old are both humans, at different stages in that human life, so too is a fetus a human, just at a different stage in life.

Fetus is Latin for "little one" if memory serves correct. Jesus taught us to not offend or harm the little ones.

Abortion is also one reason Social Security is in trouble. Many people who would have been going to work to pay into Social Security have been aborted, thus the work-force dwindles as those reaching retirment age does not.

 

[thereselittleflower]

So where in the Bible does it say that all fetuses are people? The passages that are there point to me that they can be interpreted either way. Please help clear the fog in my mind.

Do you think that at least some fetuses are people?


Peace in Him!

 

[filosofer]

Interesting that "fetus" comes from the Latin - "little child" or "baby".

Hmmmm

 

[FreeGrace]

The great sadness is that this subject seems to be a matter of debate.I believe this shows just how far from biblical christianity and understanding many are.Life is life I find it inconcievable how anyone could willingly kill a child.

May God have mercy upon us all.

 

[jbarcher]

Noting the "humans birth humans", the unique human DNA of the unborn, and even the most basic stage of humans meeting the standard defintion for life (metabolism, growth, reproduction, reaction to stimuli), I don't think it is possible for one to rationally say that the unborn are not humans.

Now then, Lee Fey, what's the difference between a human being and a human person?

(Also, in the biblical times they did not have scientific terms as we use them today. Asking for those terms is anachronistic.)