Abortion song

[KalithAlur]

you don't have to see yourself as a distinct individual to understand that pain is to be retreated from.

by this new definition, "pain" implies self-aware, since the pain of a wood chipper would be avoided by any entity with a nervous system,

and other organisms have developed a pattern of reacting to destruction (which can be symbolized by the *wood chipper) offensively/defensively, merely because if they hadn't developed such reactive patterns, they'd no longer exist. these organisms can be so simple they don't "feel" anything ... no pain, pleasure, aggression. they simply react to specific situations a specific way.

 

[WatersMoon110]

because if you aren't self aware, and get slowly lowered into a woodchipper, you wouldn't care.

A self aware entity would

Don't you mean sentinence, or the ability to feel pain?

A fish, which is not really anywhere near what I would consider "self aware", still feels pain. Insects don't seem to have anything like pain (though they do respond to sensations) as they don't have similar structures to our nociceptors, which create the sensation of pain for us.

Also, there are some people who can't feel pain, due to the medical condition anhidrosis. Would it be okay to "lower them into a woodchipper", as they would not be able to feel it?

 

[EnemyPartyII]

Don't you mean sentinence, or the ability to feel pain?

A fish, which is not really anywhere near what I would consider "self aware", still feels pain. Insects don't seem to have anything like pain (though they do respond to sensations) as they don't have similar structures to our nociceptors, which create the sensation of pain for us.

Also, there are some people who can't feel pain, due to the medical condition anhidrosis. Would it be okay to "lower them into a woodchipper", as they would not be able to feel it?

oinly if they consented, which is unlikely, because they would probably miss the use of the bits that got chipped.

But yes, I am of the opinion that, while a fish DOES repond to pain stimulus, its not the same as being AWARE of pain stimulus

 

[WatersMoon110]

But yes, I am of the opinion that, while a fish DOES repond to pain stimulus, its not the same as being AWARE of pain stimulus

Like, connecting the sensation with the cause? Because it would be hard to show that young children are able to do so either.

 

[Asimov]

Psychology for years has ignored growth and devlopment due to dominance by behaviorists. It's gonna take a ong time efore we can figure out this riddle.

But all I hear about is the baby - what about the mother - giving birth is quite horridly painful too.

Yea, but they deserve it for opening their legs in the first place, eh? Women are just baby factories, after all, and nobody cares about the factory, just the product.

 

[quatona]

If it makes you feel any better, Kathy Troccoli has a song about an unborn baby who prays for and forgives her mother for contemplating abortion:

It irritates me for the same reason the other song irritates me: It´s propaganda harping on emotionalisms.

 

[EnemyPartyII]

Yea, but they deserve it for opening their legs in the first place, eh? Women are just baby factories, after all, and nobody cares about the factory, just the product.

Totally. Women are scum, fit for nothing but being chained to the kitchen sink. Glad I'm not one!... oh, wait... oh darn!

 

[quatona]

Totally. Women are scum, fit for nothing but being chained to the kitchen sink.

Doesn´t mean they are less important, of course.

 

[EnemyPartyII]

Doesn´t mean they are less important, of course.

oh no, its one of those "seperate but equal" deals... you be an unquestion slave, while I go and have fullfilment in the outside world... see, we're both equal, just different

 

[quatona]

oh no, its one of those "seperate but equal" deals... you be an unquestion slave, while I go and have fullfilment in the outside world... see, we're both equal, just different

Exactly.
You women deserve our (the mens´) utmost respect and admiration. Where would we be without you doing the dishes, after all? I mean, we couldn´t even focus on leading a decent war or committing other massacres with the nagging thought in our backheads "at home there are still the dishes, undone".

 

[EnemyPartyII]

Exactly.
You women deserve our (the mens´) utmost respect and admiration. Where would we be without you doing the dishes, after all? I mean, we couldn´t even focus on leading a decent war or committing other massacres with the nagging thought in our backheads "at home there are still the dishes, undone".

and some woman, somewhere, NOT pregnant and NOT having sex at her husband's pleasure *shudder* the horror, the horror

 

[KalithAlur]

"while a fish DOES repond to pain stimulus, its not the same as being AWARE of pain stimulus"

if the fish feels pain, the fish is aware of pain stimulus. feeling is awareness of what you are feeling.

 

[Asimov]

It irritates me for the same reason the other song irritates me: It´s propaganda harping on emotionalisms.

I just wish I could be that manipulative.

 

[Texas Lynn]

If it makes you feel any better, Kathy Troccoli has a song about an unborn baby who prays for and forgives her mother for contemplating abortion:



http://www.lyricsdownload.com/kathy-troccoli-a-baby-s-prayer-lyrics.html

This song is sentimental, but I think it conveys the same message in a very gentle way......the baby loves her mother unconditionally--can't the mother do the same for him/her?

Where brain function has not yet developed in most feti the song is at best deceptive.

 

[KalithAlur]

so is the statement, "brain function has not yet developed in most feti," especially since the last several pages of posts on this thread are devoted to determining to what extent brain functioning has developed in the fetus... it doesn't take long for some amount of brain functioning to begin, that doesn't happen that long after conception (in my opinion, based on what i'v read)

 

[EnemyPartyII]

"while a fish DOES repond to pain stimulus, its not the same as being AWARE of pain stimulus"

if the fish feels pain, the fish is aware of pain stimulus. feeling is awareness of what you are feeling.

um, no, not necesarily... I think you are suffering from a case of anthropomorphism...

 

[KalithAlur]

sensation is a form of awareness, according to my interpretation of the dictionary.

to be aware of something is to have some knowledge it is going on.

when pain is felt, a signal travels to the brain to alert the brain of damage, otherwise the pain wouldn't be felt. this signal alerts (makes aware) the brain that something harmful is going on.

of course, i'll agree that some things resembling pain response don't actually qualify as pain (or awareness of damage, or even negative sensation). for instance, if an entity automatically reacts to certain situations without feeling anything, a fish can react to damage without feeling the damage. but i wouldn't define that scenario as pain response, i'd define it as situational response.