Abortion...It is time to put an END to it!

[DamonRambo]

And I cannot believe you are talking about me being "soap-boxy".

As in..

"Yes, I know kids are being brutally murdered every day...but why do you have to be so passionate about stopping it? Don't you know you are interrupting our discussion of the latest episode of 'Glee'"?

Sheesh. Wonder if people called Dietrich Bonhoeffer "soap boxy"?

As in "Yes, yes, we all know those Jews are being gassed, but do you have to be so preachy?"

 

[Armoured]

What is your idea?

Implanon or similar given to all women along with their teenage boosters, then renewed every three years until declined or requested removed. There would simply be no more unwanted pregnancies. People with the insert wouldn't get pregnant, and people who declined the insert or had requested it removed would have no excuse to say "well I wasn't planning to get pregnant".

If you say, "I believe all baby killing, including abortion, should be illegal," then I will be happy to apologize. Otherwise, I don't think I have mischaracterized your position.

I'm not going to follow your script for your benefit. I believe abortion is immoral and wrong. You mischarecterised me utterly when you suggested I thought anything else.

 

[Armoured]

And I cannot believe you are talking about me being "soap-boxy".

As in..

"Yes, I know kids are being brutally murdered every day...but why do you have to be so passionate about stopping it? Don't you know you are interrupting our discussion of the latest episode of 'Glee'"?

Sheesh. Wonder if people called Dietrich Bonhoeffer "soap boxy"?

As in "Yes, yes, we all know those Jews are being gassed, but do you have to be so preachy?"

No, as in waxing all enraged and throwing murder rhetoric around when discussing the issue with a Catholic is unnecessary. Ever heard the expression "preaching to the choir"? Tends to irk people when they keep getting the hard sell after they bought the car.

 

[DamonRambo]

Implanon or similar given to all women along with their teenage boosters, then renewed every three years until declined or requested removed. There would simply be no more unwanted pregnancies. People with the insert wouldn't get pregnant, and people who declined the insert or had requested it removed would have no excuse to say "well I wasn't planning to get pregnant".

Ahh, yes, the old "The only way we can prevent abortion, is by encouraging mass fornication" line....

No thanks. God's way is better.

I'm not going to follow your script for your benefit. I believe abortion is immoral and wrong. You mischarecterised me utterly when you suggested I thought anything else.

So in other words, you do NOT think abortion should be illegal, and you hold to an absolutely ridiculous equivocating position. So I did not mischaracterize you at all, and have nothing to apologize for.

You are part of the problem.

 

[DamonRambo]

No, as in waxing all enraged and throwing murder rhetoric around when discussing the issue with a Catholic is unnecessary. Ever heard the expression "preaching to the choir"? Tends to irk people when they keep getting the hard sell after they bought the car.

Its not "throwing the word murder around." Its just using the proper terminology. It IS murder, so I will call it murder. That's like calling me inflamatory, because I call a red car "red."

You think that you being Catholic is supposed to impress me with your pro-life credentials? Do you have any idea how many people of your faith, have put my people to death??

Not exactly a "pro-life" religion.

 

[dogs4thewin]

I hate to tell you all but you literally CANNOT stop all abortion because legally and techially speaking a miscarriage is an abortion even if the woman did NOTHING to cause it or did not know she was with child and so she for example took pain medication.

 

[DamonRambo]

I hate to tell you all but you literally CANNOT stop all abortion because legally and techially speaking a miscarriage is an abortion even if the woman did NOTHING to cause it or did not know she was with child and so she for example took pain medication.

No one is talking about trying to stop natural death. We are talking about preventing murder.

Are you suggesting that because people die of old age, that we therefore should not put serial killers in jail, because "you just can't stop death"?

That is an absurd argument. Yes, people die naturally all the time. No, that does not justify murder, or mean that we should cease prosecuting murderers..

 

[dogs4thewin]

No one is talking about trying to stop natural death. We are talking about preventing murder.

Are you suggesting that because people die of old age, that we therefore should not put serial killers in jail, because "you just can't stop death"?

No, I am talking about if a woman has a miscarriage NOT people dying of old age or anything like that, but if I am with child I miscarry that is considered aborting the child by the ACTUAL defination even if I took perfect care of myself while with child put NOTHING in my body that did not need to be there. I am not talking about death in general.

 

[DamonRambo]

No one is talking about trying to stop natural death. We are talking about preventing murder.

Are you suggesting that because people die of old age, that we therefore should not put serial killers in jail, because "you just can't stop death"?

No, I am talking about if a woman has a miscarriage NOT people dying of old age or anything like that, but if I am with child I miscarry that is considered aborting the child by the ACTUAL defination even if I took perfect care of myself while with child put NOTHING in my body that did not need to be there. I am not talking about death in general.

You are playing semantic word games. There is no difference between a person dying of old age, or a car accident, and a natural spontaneous death of a baby by miscarriage. Both of those are natural deaths, and no one says they can be prevented.

Babies being murdered, though, is a different matter. Mothers should not be allowed to kill their children intentionally, just because some die of natural or accidental causes.

Natural deaths of unborn children, car accidents, and dying of old age are all realities of this world that are unavoidable. But that doesn't mean that murder, whether that is murder by a serial killer, a mom, or a jealous husband, should go unpunished.

 

[dogs4thewin]

You are playing semantic word games. There is no difference between a person dying of old age, or a car accident, and a natural spontaneous death of a baby by miscarriage. Both of those are natural deaths, and no one says they can be prevented.

Babies being murdered, though, is a different matter. Mothers should not be allowed to kill their children intentionally, just because some die of natural or accidental causes.

Natural deaths of unborn children, car accidents, and dying of old age are all realities of this world that are unavoidable. But that doesn't mean that murder, whether that is murder by a serial killer, a mom, or a jealous husband, should go unpunished.

Oh I thought you were talking in the post where you asks the question ONLY about death after birth. We still cannot control however a woman purposely trying to have a miscarriage.

 

[DamonRambo]

Oh I thought you were talking in the post where you asks the question ONLY about death after birth. We still cannot control however a woman purposely trying to have a miscarriage.

Sure we can make it illegal for a woman to kill her child.

#1 Pass a law. Make it illegal. Protect the child.

#2 Educate people. Make it abortion seen for what it is: an act of heinous murder.

#3 Educate people further; children are a blessing, not a cancer to get rid of.

Will that stop ALL murder? No. But neither does the laws we have on the books on other homicides.

But it should be illegal nonetheless.

 

[dogs4thewin]

Sure we can make it illegal for a woman to kill her child.

#1 Pass a law. Make it illegal. Protect the child.

#2 Educate people. Make it abortion seen for what it is: an act of heinous murder.

#3 Educate people further; children are a blessing, not a cancer to get rid of.

Will that stop ALL murder? No. But neither does the laws we have on the books on other homicides.

But it should be illegal nonetheless.

They dried that and abortion has remained legal for decades.

 

[DamonRambo]

They dried that and abortion has remained legal for decades.

"Oh well. We tried to stop people from killing kids. It just didn't work."

I am not willing to settle for that. I wonder if the people in Germany said...

"We tried to stop the Nazis...but it didn't work. I guess the Jews just have to die..."

 

[TheDag]

Abortion is the mom using her body, to kill another person, as sure as if she took a knife and plunged it into her child.

We belong to God, and do not have a right to do what we want with our bodies. Anymore than I have a right to lie, steal, or cheat on my wife.

They can do it, but the Bible says we are to judge them for it.....just as we are to judge all murderers, and punish them accordingly.

if you are going to quote the bible please quote the entire passage of relevance not just half of it. The bible is very clear that we have no right to judge those outside the church until Christ returns. We can only judge other Christians and then that must be done in a way to win them over and get them to repent not in a condemning way.
Please also point out where the bible says Christians are to force their views on the world through legislation. I can't find any such passage. I can find passages saying we should be a light to the world which when taken in conjunction with passage saying we don't cover the lamp but let it shine so all can see the light and also that God's word is a lamp unto our feet all indicate the way we should be a light (influence) is much more personal not by force of law.

Of course looking at some of your comments in particular in post #15 I don't think you are being reasonable. Do you not realise that bearing false witness against your neighbour (anyone) is going against one of the ten commandments and is also repeated in the NT. Funny how you are happy to break one commandment but are so hard and fast against what you believe is breaking a commandment. That position sounds hypocritical to me. There are unwanted pregnancies within marriage as well. To take the typical Christian view that men do not have to take personal responsibility for their actions is absolutely disgusting and vile. It makes me ashamed to be a man when I hear that attitude.

Guess what I do know one person who had protected sex and still ended up pregnant so using contraception is no guarantee. It is easy enough to access information that tells you no form of contraception is 100% effective.

Your claim that if a person has a child it is their responsibility to look after and raise that child is also unbiblical. Yes they have that responsibility but so does the community to help them and support them. Would you like to take a guess at how many anti-abortion people I know that are foster parents or who have applied to adopt a child? I could use one hand to count them. It would be less than 1% of anti-abortion people. When it comes down to it anti-abortion people generally are just not willing to put their beliefs into action. It is instead just an idea and a cause but not something one should actually be practical about in terms of helping people. Last year I went from $100k plus income to homeless in a few months. I am starting to recover now and have stable accommodation and am trying to find work although as a single parent nobody wants to employ me despite excellent availability. It is employers who simply do not want to be flexible.

There were, VERY few, despite the stories you hear of back alleys and coat hangers.

The way to stop abortion, is to tell people, "If you kill a kid, you are going to prison." It is ridiculous for Andrea Yates to be in prison for killing her children, while doctors receive government assistance to kill other people's....

you just defeated your own argument! The threat of going to jail did not stop andrea yates. The threat of going to prison does not stop crime from happening. If you don't believe me just look at your local jail and see how many people are there. If you think that will stop it you just aren't thinking. Punishments do not stop crime they simply punish. Sure it may be a deterrent for some people but for many it isn't. Please join us in reality and come up with a realistic solution.

 

[TheDag]

Thou shalt not murder is pretty clear.

Yes it is pretty clear. However the traditional Jewish view and therefore the traditional Christian view is that life begins at the first breath. there is some debate over when the first breath is taken. Some say it is in the womb while others say it is only after birth. That was the culture of the time the bible was written and therefore makes part of the context and can not in good conscious be ignored. So yeah even if all politicians were committed Christians there is still no guarantee they would agree with you. The current Christian view on abortion only became the Christian view in the late 1970's. Certainly that view had been around for some time but until the late 1970's it was not a required belief to be a Christian. Many very influential Christians that I am certain you would have a lot of respect for actually have said abortion is not a sin. Of course they wouldn't dream of saying that today because of the response but just because a influential group has changed the definition of what it means to be christian does not make that definition correct.

Also if we follow biblical principles then in the rare cases where the life of the mother is in danger then biblical principles say abortion should be allowed in those cases. Even if it was a one in ten million chance the bible teaches it should still be allowed in that situation.

 

[crazyasheaven]

I am very new, and I know christians are very political, but here's my opinion:

The demographic jesus spoke to were the jews of his day. he would quote the bible because the people he was speaking to had those verses in their heads. when he flipped over tables, all those people were jews. when he talked about pharisees, they were jews. the new testament writers wrote to all jewish/christian communities/churches. ephesians, colosians, philipians, thesolonians...etc...those are faith based communities.

I don't think christians should judge anybody outside of that or tell them to do something because they think it's moral. (1 Cor 5:12)

I think if a church wants to take a stance on being anti-abortion (which i think they should) then they should frame their stance of pro-life in a sane way. I think children and marriage are things that are supposed to bring people together. Not only the people married or just parent and child are held together, but a whole community of friends and family are in it too to support them and give help to them.

What a person that is getting an abortion needs is support in keeping the baby. If the church supported the woman with food, clothes, babysitters, parenting advice etc...and the people of the church organized to offer that service, that would be an amazing and proper response.

Problem is, there are tons of kids already and everybody has a busy life already. So all the church can actually do is think abortion is wrong and judge people getting them.

if a non-christian woman came to a church thinking about getting support, but decides to get the abortion anyway, I would just say "goodbye! have a nice day!". The end.

if it were a christian woman, i would strongly recommend keeping the baby and try to organize her friends and church family into supporting her baby.

it would be a temporary service. i mean...if she has meals made for her, financial assistance if she needs to take time off from work, whatever it is...she could find a romantic partner that can eventually help her while the service is given to her and hopefully get them somewhat independent.

 

[let God be God]

You must start with birth control because abortion is simply another form off birth control

 

[SPF]

You must start with birth control because abortion is simply another form off birth control

You might need to clarify this statement. For example, birth control that prevents fertilization is certainly not the same thing as abortion.

 

[let God be God]

They stem from the same heart condition both are not wanting a child

 

[let God be God]

Anything done to prevent children from being born is birth control so abortion is birth control