Abortion is Murder.

[Texas Lynn]

Why are pregnant moms given a baby shower?

The women who obtain abortions do not, except on rare occasions when the shower precedes a medically necessary abortion and everybody feels badly afterwards.

The application of this concept to the question at hand is however at best elusive. One may as well ask why person who die in car wrecks obtain driver's licenses.

Given that women who obtain abortions are most often in sad circumstances, contrasting their situations with those of joyous women with wanted pregnancies certainly labors the cruelty and the absurdity of the finger-wagging directed at women who obtain abortions. So often the "policing of the poor" which occurs is nothing but oppression and the attempts to criminalize abortion are no exception to that.

 

[drstevej]

A baby shower is purely a cultural thing and is an invention of the culture that has it. Just because someone has a baby shower doesn't mean that the fetus inside of them is a baby. It simply means that the fetus inside of them is likely a wanted one and that other people are congratulating this person on their pregnancy. You can't say that just because some culture has a baby shower that it means that the fetus inside of them is a baby.

Wanted fetuses are babies. I see.

 

[drstevej]

The women who obtain abortions do not, except on rare occasions when the shower precedes a medically necessary abortion and everybody feels badly afterwards.

The application of this concept to the question at hand is however at best elusive. One may as well ask why person who die in car wrecks obtain driver's licenses.

Given that women who obtain abortions are most often in sad circumstances, contrasting their situations with those of joyous women with wanted pregnancies certainly labors the cruelty and the absurdity of the finger-wagging directed at women who obtain abortions. So often the "policing of the poor" which occurs is nothing but oppression and the attempts to criminalize abortion are no exception to that.

I was not aware that folks who die in car wrecks acquire driving licenses.

Sad = when the fetus is wanted
Not sad = when the fetus the is unwanted

Why not have a "Wanted Fetus Shower"
or
Why not have a "Unwanted Fetus Terminated Party"

Why do you use finger wagging so often?

Cruelty is terminating a life before the individual in the womb has ANY say. My son is darn glad he did not get terminated without consent.

 

[Hentenza]

I was not aware that folks who die in car wrecks acquire driving licenses.

Sad = when the fetus is wanted
Not sad = when the fetus the is unwanted

Why not have a "Wanted Fetus Shower"
or
Why not have a "Unwanted Fetus Terminated Party"

Why do you use finger wagging so often?

Cruelty is terminating a life before the individual in the womb has ANY say. My son is darn glad he did not get terminated without consent.

All pro-choice proponents were not aborted. I am sure they are glad.

 

[LoisGriffin]

All pro-choice proponents were not aborted. I am sure they are glad.

Thats a weird comment. If I was aborted I don't think I would care.

I support choice for all. If a person wants a baby then great. If they don't then its not my business.

 

[drstevej]

If you'd have asked me when I was concieved, I would have had no opinion.

Interesting how your language overturns your position.

Game - Set - Match

 

[drstevej]

At conception you refer to yourself as "I" .... doncha mean "At conception that tissue (parasite) in my mom had no opinion?"

 

[Texas Lynn]

I was not aware that folks who die in car wrecks acquire driving licenses.

Really? Why not?

Cruelty is terminating a life before the individual in the womb has ANY say.

There is no "individual" in the womb.

My son is darn glad he did not get terminated without consent.

Is he an Iraqui?

 

[Texas Lynn]

All pro-choice proponents were not aborted. I am sure they are glad.

Non sequitur. If your father had gone out back to smoke a Tampa before making the beast with two backs with your mother then you wouldn't have become you because another sperm would have moved up front and penetrated the egg instead of the one that did. All these comments do is beg the question. They present a zero sum equation which is inapplicable.

 

[drstevej]

Well, since I was refering to myself shortly after conception, I used the word I because I, apparently mistakenly, figured that was the correct word when one was referring to themselves.

What word would you prefer? Or do you think that when people refer to themselves, they should use the opportunity to make some sort of statement? So instead of me saying "I'm cooking dinner" I should say "the female humanoid with red hair who voted for Obama is cooking dinner"?



Try not to look at the proper use of the English language as this subliminal subtext of secret anti-abortion leanings so as to justify your own personal stance.

Persons are "I"'s tissue is not.

 

[drstevej]

Ok, but I was reffering to myself, which last I checked, made me an "I."

You referred to yourself AT conception. That concedes life at conception.

 

[drstevej]

I've also reffered to the time where I was simply a twinkle in my father's eye... I guess that means that pre-conception eye twinkle's are a concescion of life at conception.

You were a twinkle in the Father's eye pre-conception!

Psalm 139:16
Your eyes saw my unformed body.
All the days ordained for me
were written in your book
before one of them came to be.

 

[Archivist]

To try to get back to the OP, the classic definition of murder was offered by Sir Edward Coke in his Institutes of the Laws of England:

"Murder is when a man of sound memory, and of the age of discretion, unlawfully killeth within any country of the realm any reasonable creature in rerum natura under the King's peace, with malice aforethought, either expressed by the party or implied by law, so as the party wounded, or hurt, etc. die of the wound or hurt, etc. within a year and a day after the same."

First, this specifically requires an unlawful killing. Abortion is legal.

Second, it requires that the victim be a "reasonable creature in rerum natura," which specifically precludes a fetus.

 

[drstevej]

To try to get back to the OP, the classic definition of murder was offered by Sir Edward Coke in his Institutes of the Laws of England:

"Murder is when a man of sound memory, and of the age of discretion, unlawfully killeth within any country of the realm any reasonable creature in rerum natura under the King's peace, with malice aforethought, either expressed by the party or implied by law, so as the party wounded, or hurt, etc. die of the wound or hurt, etc. within a year and a day after the same."

First, this specifically requires an unlawful killing. Abortion is legal.

Second, it requires that the victim be a "reasonable creature in rerum natura," which specifically precludes a fetus.

I googled "crazy English laws" and found these...

• No cows may be driven down the roadway between 10 AM and 7 PM unless there is prior approval from the Commissioner of Police.
• All English males over the age 14 are to carry out 2 or so hours of longbow practice a week supervised by the local clergy.
• Since 1313, MPs are not allowed to don armor in Parliament.
• It is illegal for two adult men to have sex in the same house as a third person.
• Those wishing to purchase a television must also buy a license.

I am sure folks thought these made sense when enacted.
Killing a kid in the womb makes sense?

 

[Archivist]

I googled "crazy English laws" and found these...

• No cows may be driven down the roadway between 10 AM and 7 PM unless there is prior approval from the Commissioner of Police.
• All English males over the age 14 are to carry out 2 or so hours of longbow practice a week supervised by the local clergy.
• Since 1313, MPs are not allowed to don armor in Parliament.
• It is illegal for two adult men to have sex in the same house as a third person.
• Those wishing to purchase a television must also buy a license.

I am sure folks thought these made sense when enacted.
Killing a kid in the womb makes sense?

You do realize that Lord Coke is highly respected as the "Father of the Common Law." Our Anglo-American legal system is based upon his writings.

You cannot compare his well-research legal treatise with local ordinances or internal rules of the Parliament.

 

[drstevej]

You do realize that Lord Coke is highly respected as the "Father of the Common Law." Our Anglo-American legal system is based upon his writings.

You cannot compare his well-research legal treatise with local ordinances or internal rules of the Parliament.

You do realize that Lord Jesus is highly respected as the "Alpha and Omega." Our universe is upheld by His Word.

You cannot compare His eternal authority with mortal utterances or academic opinion.

He commanded us to preach to the people and to testify that He [Jesus] is the one whom God appointed as judge of the living and the dead.

 

[Archivist]

You do realize that Lord Jesus is highly respected as the "Alpha and Omega." Our universe is upheld by His Word.

You cannot compare His eternal authority with mortal utterances or academic opinion.

Yes, I do realize that Jesus is the Alpha and Omega (I presume that you did see the Christian symbol). However, Jesus never specifically addressed the issue of abortion, even though it was practiced in Biblical times.

The Old Testament does specifically address the issue of taking the life of a fetus in the book of Exodus:

"And if men struggle with each other and strike a woman with child so that she has a miscarriage, yet there is no further injury, he shall surely be fined as the woman's husband may demand of him; and he shall pay as the judges decide. But if there is any further injury, then you shall appoint as a penalty life for life." (Exodus 21:22-23)

Now the Old Testament penalty for the murder of a human being was death, but scripture clearly states that the penalty for causing a miscarriage not death but a fine.

 

[Texas Lynn]

I googled "crazy English laws" and found these...

• No cows may be driven down the roadway between 10 AM and 7 PM unless there is prior approval from the Commissioner of Police.
• All English males over the age 14 are to carry out 2 or so hours of longbow practice a week supervised by the local clergy.
• Since 1313, MPs are not allowed to don armor in Parliament.
• It is illegal for two adult men to have sex in the same house as a third person.
• Those wishing to purchase a television must also buy a license.

I am sure folks thought these made sense when enacted.

Yes, just like the Patriarchs did when they penned Leviticus.

Killing a kid in the womb makes sense?

Well, a fetus is never a "kid" until it's born and can't be "killed" since it's not alive on its own.

But research on abortion has shown time and time again that abortion primarily occurs for economic reasons--the abortion rate parallells the unemployment rate. If you want to reduce abortion, promote an end to social inequality. Nothing else works.

What doesn't make any sense is the social structure where from whose crotch a baby pops out of determines its power and survival as an adult.

 

[drstevej]

What doesn't make any sense is the social structure where from whose crotch a baby pops out of determines its power and survival as an adult.

Babies don't just pop out of crotches. Except for rape they are the result of two people making a choice who are unwilling to accept the consequences of not controlling their crotches.

Why kill a baby (not allow it to pop out of the crotch alive) just to help economically?

I picked up the tab for my adopted son's birth and still do help out 22 years later.