Abortion and legality

[Helo]

Im curious as to why some people seem to think that if abortion is made illegal that ittl just magically stop. That no one will get abortions if its illegal.

 

[gengwall]

I don't know if people so much believe it as hope that it's true. I have yet to see any pro-life person (of which I am one) give a solid argument that abortion will even drop dramatically if it is made illegal. On the other hand, there is plenty of pre-Roe as well as current illegal abortion country evidence that abortion will continue on quite unabated.

 

[sister_maynard]

There's a sense of idealism that people will play by the rules, I suspect. It might reduce the abortion rate. People might try to be more consistent with birth control, and there would be less willingness to get an abortion when people knew that it was going to be unsafe and unsanitary. However, this is just speculation and it might not change. I do agree that it wouldn't magically vanish away. Rather, it would vanish underground and we wouldn't hear as much about it.

 

[shinbits]

Im curious as to why some people seem to think that if abortion is made illegal that ittl just magically stop.

That's the same argument that people use with Marijuana. Doesn't mean we should make it legal.

 

[sister_maynard]

The analogy is flawed. The difference is that abortion is currently legal, and we're looking for evidence that banning legal abortions would actually lower the number of abortions.

 

[quatona]

That's the same argument that people use with Marijuana. Doesn't mean we should make it legal.

As far as I can see the OP didn´t conlude that. It was merely asking whether the argument described is compelling and/or convincing.

 

[Yusuf Evans]

They're not gonna stop, since your going to have irresponsible people having sex and getting pregnant and using abortion as a means to fix that problem. BTW, I'm not referring to rape and incest when I spoke about the above.

 

[Athene]

Im curious as to why some people seem to think that if abortion is made illegal that ittl just magically stop. That no one will get abortions if its illegal.

Because they are clueless.

 

[Monica02]

I am very involved in the pro-life movement and I know of no one who thinks that abortion will stop once it is made illegal. All illegal actions still happen - that is why we have courts and jails. I do think abortions will decrease if they are more difficult to obtain and that putting a mark of dissaproval on the procedure will shape future opinions of the morality of abortion.

 

[judy]

Yes, abortions will continue, whether they are legal or not. Only instead of being affordable, they will become expensive, and some low-lifey black marketeers will be enriching themselves with the hard-earned salaries of young desperate women. Instead of being relatively safe, they will become risky. Young desperate women will once again start showing up in emergency rooms, or be left alone in seedy motel rooms to bleed to death.

As the mother of a teenage daughter, I shudder to think of a day when "pro-lifers" get their wish and my daughter and her peers find that they have to resort to potentially deadly measures to obtain an abortion.

 

[momalle1]

Im curious as to why some people seem to think that if abortion is made illegal that ittl just magically stop. That no one will get abortions if its illegal.

A reversal of Roe vs Wade would not make abortions illegal, it would simply place it back at the state level. You are more likely to see a modified Roe vs Wade, or no change at all. There are 50 states, some will keep things the way they are. What will pro-lifers do next? Restrict interstate travel?

 

[Jacob4Jesus]

I don't think many pro lifers really believe it will stop. However, some that I have spoken to want it illegal so they can hold those responsible for having and performing the abortions legally accountable for it.

 

[Sabina41]

People might try to be more consistent with birth control,

Except of course that all we're teaching now is abstinence only...

putting a mark of dissaproval on the procedure

Cuz there's not one already??

Making abortions illegal will definitely lower the number of abortions because then there will be girls who don't know of or can't afford to pay a black marketer or travel out of state or out of country. It certainly won't reduce the number of unplanned pregnancies however while we're not teaching young women how to protect themselves. And please, abortion already has a mark of disapproval and likely always will. Let's at least make sure young mothers don't have to die AND be shamed.

 

[Yusuf Evans]

I don't think many pro lifers really believe it will stop. However, some that I have spoken to want it illegal so they can hold those responsible for having and performing the abortions legally accountable for it.

For me, it's a matter of being woman enough to realize you made a mistake and that you ought to be adult enough to raise that life that's growing inside of you.

 

[flicka]

For me, it's a matter of being woman enough to realize you made a mistake and that you ought to be adult enough to raise that life that's growing inside of you.

It has nothing to do with "being woman enough". I'm not even sure what being "woman enough" means.

Another way to look at it is that a woman is being responsible enough to deal with an unexpected/unwanted situation in a manner that is least disruptive to her life and the lives of those around her.

And before anyone goes on "what about the baby's life..." let me just say I'm speaking of an early term abortion and don't believe there is a life until it is viable outside the womb.

 

[judy]

And before anyone goes on "what about the baby's life..." let me just say I'm speaking of an early term abortion and don't believe there is a life until it is viable outside the womb.

I think there is definitely life before there is a baby. There is a living thing in there. It's just not a person. A person has rights. An embryo has no rights.

 

[quatona]

For me, it's a matter of being woman enough to realize you made a mistake and that you ought to be adult enough to raise that life that's growing inside of you.

I certainly respect that as your opinion, but I fail to see how this is argument. It´s an appeal to "be adult enough" - how the heck can someone be adult enough, if she is not adult enough?
I personally don´t feel I can criticize a woman who realizes she is not adult enough to raise a child, and therefore won´t do it. Quite the opposite: With the view on the to be raised child I see quite some benefits coming from that decision.
Anyways, I appreciate that at least you admit what - in my observation - this concern with abortion is really about: Not the life of a baby, not the future of a child, but: educating a person and forcing your moral view on her.

 

[gengwall]

A reversal of Roe vs Wade would not make abortions illegal, it would simply place it back at the state level. You are more likely to see a modified Roe vs Wade, or no change at all. There are 50 states, some will keep things the way they are. What will pro-lifers do next? Restrict interstate travel?

Actually, at least two of the states that have current abortion ban bills in the works include provisions that would prevent someone traveling to another state to get an abortion. I'm not sure how that would work, but the provisions are in the bills.

There could, of course, also be a federal abortion ban that wouldn't be applicable intrastate but would apply to interstate abortion.

Except of course that all we're teaching now is abstinence only...

Well, that's quite a generalization...

 

[jayem]

Elective abortion is not a virtuous thing by any means, but these restrictive laws raise my libertarian hackles. I don't believe there is any consensus that an embryo, from the moment of conception, is a person, with all the legal rights thereunto appertaining. And I don't think the bulk of American women will support laws which allow the state to dictate what she can do with her uterus during an entire pregnancy. The Constitution may not state it in so many words, but there is a sphere of privacy which most people understand. The fiasco of the 18th Amendment should show us what happens when government crosses the line in trying to regulate people's private behavior. Government control of pregnancy also crosses that line, and it would be a public policy disaster.

 

[gengwall]

Elective abortion is not a virtuous thing by any means, but these restrictive laws raise my libertarian hackles. I don't believe there is any consensus that an embryo, from the moment of conception, is a person, with all the legal rights thereunto appertaining. And I don't think the bulk of American women will support laws which allow the state to dictate what she can do with her uterus during an entire pregnancy. The Constitution may not state it in so many words, but there is a sphere of privacy which most people understand. The fiasco of the 18th Amendment should show us what happens when government crosses the line in trying to regulate people's private behavior. Government control of pregnancy also crosses that line, and it would be a public policy disaster.

You are certainly correct that there is no consensus on embryonic and fetal personhood. But it seems clear this is where the debate will be centered. In the end, we will have, at least in the law, a consensus. It is very possible that the pro-life position will be the victorious one (it sure is winning the battles right now).

I also agree that the founders and ammendment writers intended, even without being explicit, that we have a right to privacy (with certain valid limitations). But I really don't think that is where the abortion battle is being fought.

Still, your raised hackles are duly noted and justified.