Abomination of desolation? When?

[Truth7t7]

No it's not, the Bible says
24:1 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.

2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

The stones referred to no longer exist, must have been 70 ad

Lk 21:20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh. The Roman army in 70 ad

Do You Believe The Abomination Of Desolation, Antichrist (Titus), And Great Tribulation Took Place In 66-70AD?

 

[jgr]

No The Invading Roman Armies Were Not the Abomination Of Desolation, Nor Was The Antichrist Revealed, Nor Did The Great Tribulation Happen In 70AD, A Preterist Fairy tale

Matthew 24
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand)

Ye is Jesus' disciples and the audience at the discourse. The abomination is something they would see.

16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

Then refers to the time when they would see the abomination. They did see it, and fled. No Christians perished.

21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

Then refers to the time period of and following the abomination, when divine judgment and destruction were unleashed on Jerusalem and Judea. If you've read Josephus, you'll understand why it was a tribulation unparalleled before ("such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time"), or since ("nor ever shall be").

 

[BABerean2]

You Believe The Abomination Of Desolation, Antichrist (Titus), And Great Tribulation Took Place In 66-70AD?

Based on your posts during the last few days it is my understanding that you came out of modern Dispensational Theology.
I was once a deacon in a conservative Bible Church that also taught the doctrine.
Since that time, like you, I have had to re-examine what I was taught in the past.
I have had to change what I believed previously, on several occasions, because I could not get it to match up with my Bible.

At one time I was taught that the antichrist is found in the Book of Daniel in association with the "abomination of desolation". As a matter of fact, this idea is found in the Scofield Reference Bible.
Since that time I have had to look at the historical fulfillment of the desecration of the temple in 167 BC by Antiochus Epiphanes.

I would ask that you be also willing to examine everything you learned while immersed in Dispensational Theology to see if you are still holding onto some things that you may not even realize.

Since we already agree that Matthew 24:15-16 and Luke 21:20-21 are parallel passages, let that be our starting point.

I do not believe that Titus was the antichrist.
Based on John 10:22, the Jews of Jesus time celebrated Hanukkah each year and were well aware of the desecration of the temple by Antiochus Epiphanes in 167 BC.
They knew that the forces of Antiochus had attacked the city killing thousands of Jews.
They also knew he had stopped the temple sacrifices.
Many people skip over one important little clue found in Matthew 24:15.

Mat 24:15　 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand　

The Jews of Jesus time would have understood when they read this verse, because they knew about the events of 167 BC.
Jesus was telling the Jews of His time that something similar to 167 BC would occur again during 70 AD.

There are a number of us here who have rejected Dispensational Theology.
We may not always agree on all things.
Let us all be willing to listen at least as much as we speak.

Welcome to the forum, Brother.

.

 

[Truth7t7]

Matthew 24
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand)

Ye is Jesus' disciples and the audience at the discourse. The abomination is something they would see.

16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

Then refers to the time when they would see the abomination. They did see it, and fled. No Christians perished.

21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

Then refers to the time period of and following the abomination, when divine judgment and destruction were unleashed on Jerusalem and Judea. If you've read Josephus, you'll understand why it was a tribulation unparalleled before ("such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time"), or since ("nor ever shall be").

Did The Second Advent And Resurrection Take Place "Immediately After The Tribulation" In 70AD?

Of Course It Didn't, The Writing In Matthew 24 Is To The Future Generation That Will Witness The Signs. And Second Advent, "They Shall See The Son Of Man Coming"

"This Generation" In Matthew 24:34 Is A Future Generation.

The Chapter Opens With The Question?

What Shall Be The Sign Of Thy Coming And Of The End Of The World?

The Complete Chapter Is Devoted To Answering This Question.

Matthew 24:3 & 29-51KJV
3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:
33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
37 But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.
43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.
44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.
45 Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season?
46 Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.
47 Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods.
48 But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming;
49 And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken;
50 The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of,
51 And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Jesus Christ Is Lord

Truth7t7

 

[jgr]

Did The Second Advent And Resurrection Take Place "Immediately After The Tribulation" In 70AD?

Of Course It Didn't, The Writing In Matthew 24 Is To The Future Generation That Will Witness The Signs. And Second Advent, "They Shall See The Son Of Man Coming"

"This Generation" In Matthew 24:34 Is A Future Generation.

The Chapter Opens With The Question?

What Shall Be The Sign Of Thy Coming And Of The End Of The World?

The Complete Chapter Is Devoted To Answering This Question.

Matthew 24:3 & 29-51KJV
3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:
33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
37 But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.
43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.
44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.
45 Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season?
46 Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.
47 Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods.
48 But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming;
49 And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken;
50 The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of,
51 And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Jesus Christ Is Lord

Truth7t7

DECEIVERS

Matthew: "And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you, For many shall come in my name saying, I am Christ, and shall deceive many" (24:4,5).

Mark: "And Jesus answering them began to say, Take heed lest any man deceive you; For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ, and shall deceive many" (13:5,6).

Luke: "And he said, Take heed that ye be not deceived; for many shall come in my name saying, I am Christ, and the time draweth near; go ye not therefore after them" (21:8).

Did such deceivers or false Christs arise and deceive many in those years before the destruction of Jerusalem? Yes.

According to Josephus, the noted Jewish historian, twelve years after our Saviour's death, a certain impostor named Theudas persuaded a great multitude to follow him to the river Jordan which he claimed would divide for their passage. At the time of Felix (who is mentioned in the book of Acts), the country of the Jews was filled with impostors who Felix had put to death EVERY DAY—a statement which indicates that there were "many" of such in those days.

An Egyptian who "pretended to be a prophet" gathered 30,000 men, claiming that he would show "how, at his command, the walls of Jerusalem would fall down."

Another deceiver was Simon, a sorcerer, who led people to believe he was the great power of God (See Acts 8). According to Irenaeus, Simon claimed to be the Son of God and creator of angels. Jerome says that he claimed to be the Word of God, the Almighty. Justin relates that he went to Rome and was acclaimed as a god by his magical powers.

Origen mentions a certain wonder-worker, Dositheus, who claimed he was the Christ foretold by Moses. Another deceiver in those days was Barchochebas who, according to Jerome, claimed to vomit flames. Bar-jesus is mentioned in Acts 13:6 as a sorcerer and false prophet. These are examples of the deceivers of whom history says there were "a great number," and of whom Jesus had prophesied that there would be "many."

WARS AND RUMORS OF WARS

Matthew: "And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars. See that ye be not troubled; for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet. For nation shall rise against nation and kingdom against kingdom" (24:6,7).

Mark: "And when ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars, be ye not troubled; for such things must needs be, but the end is not yet, For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom" (13:7, 8).

Luke: "But when ye shall hear of wars and commotions, be not terrified; for these things must first come to pass; but the end is not by and by [immediately]. Then said he unto them, Nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom (21:9,10).

We are told that when Jesus gave this prophecy, the Roman Empire was experiencing a general peace within its borders. Jesus explained to his disciples that they would be hearing of wars, rumors of wars, and commotions. And did they? Yes. Within a short time the Empire was filled with strife, insurrection, and wars.

Before the fall of Jerusalem, four Emperors came to violent deaths within the space of 18 months. According to the historian Suetonius (who lived during the latter part of the first century and the beginning of the second), Nero "drove a dagger into his throat.'' Galba was run down by horsemen. A soldier cut off his head and "thrusting his thumb into the mouth," carried the horrid trophy about. Otho "stabbed himself" in the breast. Vitellius was killed by slow torture and then "dragged by a hook into the Tiber." We can understand that such fate falling on the Emperors would naturally spread distress and insecurity through the Empire.

In the Annals of Tacitus, a Roman who wrote a history which covers the period prior to 70 A. D., we find such expressions as these: "Disturbances in Germany," "commotions in Africa," "commotions in Thrace," "insurrections in Gaul," "intrigues among the Parthians," "the war in Britain," "war in Armenia."

Among the Jews, the times became turbulent. In Seleucia, 50,000 Jews were killed. There was an uprising against them in Alexandria. In a battle between the Jews and Syrians in Caesarea, 20,000 were killed. During these times, Caligula ordered his statue placed in the temple at Jerusalem. The Jews refused to do this and lived in constant fear that the Emperor's armies would be sent into Palestine. This fear became so real that some of them did not even bother to till their fields.

But though there would be wars, rumours of wars, and commotions, Jesus told his disciples: "See that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the END is not yet." The word "end" that is used here is not the same Greek word as in the expression "end of the world." As Barnes says, the end here referred to is "the end of the Jewish economy; the destruction of Jerusalem."

Wars, rumors of wars, and commotions were of a general nature. These things were not signs of the end; to the contrary, they were given to show that the end was NOT yet. None of these things would be the sign which would cause the disciples to flee into the mountains.

FAMINES, PESTILENCES, EARTHQUAKES

Matthew. "And there shall be famines and pestilences, and earthquakes in divers places, all these are the beginning of sorrows (24:7,8).

Mark: "And there shall be earthquakes in divers places, and there shall be famines and troubles. These are the beginning of sorrows" (13:8).

Luke: "And great earthquakes shall be in divers places, and famines and pestilences, and fearful sights" (21:11).

The Bible records that there was famine "throughout all the world...in the days of Claudius Caesar (Acts 11:28). Judea was especially hard hit by famine. "The disciples, every man according to his ability, determined to send relief unto the brethren which dwelt in Judaea" (verse 29). Paul's instructions concerning this "collection [of fruit] for the saints" is recorded in First Corinthians 16:1-5; Rom. 15:25-28.

Historians such as Suetonius and others mention famine during those years. Tacitus speaks of a "failure in the crops, and a famine consequent thereupon." Eusebius also mentions famines during this time in Rome, Judea, and Greece. Yes, there were famines in those years before the fall of Jerusalem.

Along with famines, Jesus mentioned pestilence; that is, plagues, the spread of disease, epidemics. Famine and pestilence, of course, go hand in hand. When people do not have proper food or insufficient food, pestilence results. Suetonius wrote of "pestilence" at Rome in the days of Nero which was so severe that "within the space of one autumn there died no less than 30,000 persons." Josephus records that pestilences raged in Babylonia in A. D. 40. Tacitus tells of pestilences in Italy in A. D. 65. Yes, there were pestilences in those years before the destruction of Jerusalem.

During this period, Jesus said there would also be earthquakes in many places. Tacitus mentions earthquakes at Rome. He wrote that "Frequent earthquakes occurred, by which many houses were thrown down" and that "twelve populous cities of Asia fell in ruins from an earthquake."

Seneca, writing in the year 58 A. D., said: "How often have cities of Asia and Achaea fallen with one fatal shock! how many cities have been swallowed up in Syria! how many in Macedonia! how often has Cyprus been wasted by this calamity ! how often has Paphos become a ruin! News has often been brought us of the demolition of whole cities at once." He mentions the earthquake at Campania during the reign of Nero. In 60 A.D., Hierapous, Colosse, and Laodicea were overthrown—Laodicea being so self-sufficient that it recovered without the Imperial aid furnished other cities. In 63 A.D,, the city of Pompeii was greatly damaged by earthquake. There were earthquakes in Crete, Apamea, Smyrna, Miletus, Chios, Samos, and Judea. Earthquakes in divers places.

PERSECUTION AGAINST THE DISCIPLES

Matthew: "Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake. And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.., And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold" (24:9-12).

Mark: "They shall deliver you up to councils; and in the synagogues ye shall be beaten; and ye shall be brought before rulers and kings for my sake, for a testimony.., whatsoever shall be given you in that hour, that speak ye: for it is not ye that speak but the Holy Ghost... And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake" (13:9-13).

Luke: "They shall lay their hands on you, and persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues and into prisons, being brought before kings and rulers for my name's sake. And it shall turn to you for a testimony...I will give you a mouth and wisdom which all your adversaries shall not be able to gainsay nor resist...and some of you shall they cause to be put to death. And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake" (21:12-17).

The book of Acts gives a complete account of how the disciples were persecuted in the very ways Jesus had predicted. Let us take, for example, Acts 4: "And they laid hands on them [Peter and John], and put them in prison" (verse 3). They were brought before "rulers" (verses 5-7). And it turned into an opportunity to testify. Peter explained that "there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved" (verse 12). They were given a mouth of wisdom which their adversaries could not gainsay, for the men of the council "marveled" (verse 13). They were then commanded "not to speak at all nor teach in the name of Jesus" (verse 18). As Jesus had said, they were hated for his name's sake.

The same things are seen in Acts 5. Certain authorities "laid their hands on the apostles, and put them in the common prison" (verse 18). Later they were brought "before the council" (verse 27) and told to answer for continuing to teach in the name of Jesus (verse 28). Again they had opportunity to testify (verses 29-32). They were "beaten" (verse 40). As they departed from the "council", they rejoiced "that they were counted worthy to suffer for his name"(verse 41).

Or take Acts 6. There arose certain ones of the "synagogue" that disputed with Steven. "And they were not able to resist the wisdom and the spirit by which he spoke" (verses 9,10). Persecution resulted and he was brought into the "council " and questioned (verse 12). Again there was the opportunity to testify, the words of that testimony being given in Acts 7. Stephen was killed for his stand (verses 54-60). Jesus had said that some of them would be killed.

Notice Acts 8. "There was a great persecution against the church." Christians were put in "prison", but the result was that the word was preached (verses 1-4).

In Acts 16, Paul and Silas were beaten and cast into "prison." But it turned into an opportunity to testify and the Philippian jailor and his family were converted as a result (verses 22-34). In Acts 21, persecution resulted in Paul being beaten, brought before rulers, before whom he testified (Acts 22). In Acts 22:19 we read that Christians were "imprisoned and beat in every Synagogue."

In Acts 24, Paul was brought before Felix, the governor, and testified. He was given a mouth of wisdom which his adversaries could not gainsay—though they obtained an orator to speak against him. Paul's words even made Felix to "tremble." In Acts 25 and 26, Paul was brought before king Agrippa, the chief captains, and the principal men of the city. He was given a mouth of wisdom, for Agrippa said to Paul, "Almost thou persuadest me to be a Christian" (verse 28).

Jesus said the disciples would be afflicted, beaten, imprisoned; they would be hated for his name's sake and some would be killed; they would be brought before councils, rulers, and kings, for a testimony; they would be given a mouth of wisdom which their adversaries could not gainsay. Surely these things came to pass in those years—unmistakably fulfilled in every detail.

"And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many ...but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved" (Mt. 24:11,13). Peter, who was present when Jesus gave this prophecy (Mk. 13:3), later wrote about "false prophets" that had risen and of "many" that followed their pernicious ways (2 Peter 2). John, who also heard Jesus give this prophecy, recorded the fulfillment: "Many false prophets are gone out into the world" (l John 4:1). "Many deceivers are entered into the world" (2 John 7).

Paul also spoke of "false apostles, deceitful workers" (2 Cor. 11:13). He mentioned Hymenaeus and Philetus who taught false doctrines and overthrew the faith of some (2 Tim. 2:17, 18). By the time of his epistle to Titus, there were "many...deceivers ...who subvert whole houses, teaching things which they ought not" (Titus 1:10, 11).

The waters of truth were muddied by betrayals, false prophets, iniquity, and the love of many waxing cold. "But he that shall endure [such things] until the end, the same shall be saved" (Mt. 24:13)—both now and hereafter. We understand "end" here in a general sense, for unlike the use of this word in verses 6 and 14, this reference does not have the definite article in the Greek text.

GOSPEL TO BE PREACHED TO THE NATIONS

"And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then [not until then] shall the end come" (Mt. 24:14). Unless we take this verse clear out of its setting, "the end" in view here is the end or destruction which was to come upon Jerusalem and the temple. This was the question that Jesus was answering in the verses before, and the verses that follow are still speaking about Jerusalem and Judea. Jerusalem would be destroyed, but "first" the gospel would be preached unto all nations (Mk. 13:10).

It was a tremendous prophecy. Picture the scene. Here on the mount of Olives, Jesus was speaking these words to seemingly insignificant men. Who would have supposed that the names of these humble men would become known around the world and that even in our day—almost 2,000 years later—the seeds of truth that they planted would still be producing fruit? Who would have supposed that this unpopular gospel that Christ committed to these men would ever spread beyond that immediate area? Such a vast preaching program unto all nations seemed almost impossible of fulfillment. But it was fulfilled, and in a very real sense the gospel did go to all nations before the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 A. D..

On the day of Pentecost when the disciples were filled with the Holy Spirit, there were present in Jerusalem "devout men, out of every nation under heaven" (Acts 2:5). They heard the gospel preached by Peter and 3,000 were converted that day. Many of these, no doubt, returned to their various countries and preached the gospel.

Later when persecution came against the church, the believers at Jerusalem were scattered and "went every where preaching the word", throughout the regions of Judea and Samaria (Acts 8:1,4). Philip took the message to the city of Samaria with great results (verses 5-8). Later he was directed to a high ranking government official from Ethiopia who was gloriously converted (verses 26-40). It is believed that this man took the message to the continent of Africa and many were converted because of his influential testimony.

Peter took the message to the Gentiles at the house of Cornelius, an event that was a turning point in the missionary activities of the church (Acts 10, 11). The book of Acts gives a sketch of the mighty missionary work that advanced rapidly.

The message spread to Rome. By the time of Nero, the Christians had grown so numerous that they aroused the jealousy of the government. The story of the great fire in Rome in 64 A. D. —for which the Christians were falsely blamed—is well known. In writing to the Christians at Rome, Paul opens his epistle by saying, "Your faith is spoken of throughout the whole world" (Rom. 1:8), and his closing words talk about the gospel as having been "made known to all nations for the obedience of faith" (16:26).

Concerning even far away England, Newton says: "There is absolute certainty that Christianity was planted in this country in the days of the apostles, before the destruction of Jerusalem." Eusebius and also Theodoret inform us that the apostles preached the gospel in all the world and some of them "passed beyond the ocean to the Britannic isles."

By the time Paul wrote his letter to the Colossians, he could say: 'The gospel...is come unto you, as it is in all the world" (Col. 1:6). Likewise, in verse 23, he mentions '"the gospel which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven."

By 70 A. D., the gospel had gone forth to the world for a witness. No longer was God's message to man confined to one nation or race.


Source: "Great Prophecies of the Bible" by Ralph Woodrow

 

[Truth7t7]

Based on your posts during the last few days it is my understanding that you came out of modern Dispensational Theology.
I was once a deacon in a conservative Bible Church that also taught the doctrine.
Since that time, like you, I have had to re-examine what I was taught in the past.
I have had to change what I believed previously, on several occasions, because I could not get it to match up with my Bible.

At one time I was taught that the antichrist is found in the Book of Daniel in association with the "abomination of desolation". As a matter of fact, this idea is found in the Scofield Reference Bible.
Since that time I have had to look at the historical fulfillment of the desecration of the temple in 167 BC by Antiochus Epiphanes.

I would ask that you be also willing to examine everything you learned while immersed in Dispensational Theology to see if you are still holding onto some things that you may not even realize.

Since we already agree that Matthew 24:15-16 and Luke 21:20-21 are parallel passages, let that be our starting point.

I do not believe that Titus was the antichrist.
Based on John 10:22, the Jews of Jesus time celebrated Hanukkah each year and were well aware of the desecration of the temple by Antiochus Epiphanes in 167 BC.
They knew that the forces of Antiochus had attacked the city killing thousands of Jews.
They also knew he had stopped the temple sacrifices.
Many people skip over one important little clue found in Matthew 24:15.

Mat 24:15　 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand　

The Jews of Jesus time would have understood when they read this verse, because they knew about the events of 167 BC.
Jesus was telling the Jews of His time that something similar to 167 BC would occur again during 70 AD.

There are a number of us here who have rejected Dispensational Theology.
We may not always agree on all things.
Let us all be willing to listen at least as much as we speak.

Welcome to the forum, Brother.

.

I Pray You Do The Same With Your (Preterist) Interpretation Of The Olivet Discourse, Straight From The Roman Catholic Jesuit Priest Luis De Alcasar.

Wikipedia: Preterism

The term preterism comes from the Latin praeter, which Webster's 1913 dictionary lists as a prefix denoting that something is "past" or "beyond". Adherents of preterism are commonly known as preterists. Preterism teaches that either all (full preterism) or a majority (partial preterism) of the Olivet discourse had come to pass by AD 70.

Historically, preterists and non-preterists have generally agreed that the Jesuit Luis de Alcasar (1554–1613) wrote the first systematic preterist exposition of prophecy - Vestigatio arcani sensus in Apocalypsi (published in 1614)—during the Counter-Reformation.

The Preterist Interpretation Denies, Bends, And Twist's Scripture More Than The Darby/Scofield Dispensationalist Interpretation Does

Scripture & The Apostolic Church Fathers Teach Of A Future From 66-70AD Revealing Of The Man Of Sin/Antichrist, A Future Tribulation, A Future Second Advent & Resurrection, A Future Judgment & Eternal Kingdom At The Second Advent, "Immediately After The Future Tribulation"

I Believe And Teach The Same

Did The Second Advent And Resurrection Take Place "Immediately After The Tribulation" In 70AD?

Of Course It Didn't, The Writing In Matthew 24 Is To The Future Generation That Will Witness The Signs. And Second Advent, "They Shall See The Son Of Man Coming"

"This Generation" In Matthew 24:34 Is A Future Generation.

The Chapter Opens With The Question?

What Shall Be The Sign Of Thy Coming And Of The End Of The World?

The Complete Chapter Is Devoted To Answering This Question.

They Shall See The Son Of Man Coming? "The Second Advent"

Know That It Is Near, Even At The Doors? "The Second Advent"

Heaven And Earth Shall Pass Away? "At The Second Advent"

What Is The Day And Hour No Man Knows? "The Second Advent"

Matthew 24:3 & 29-51KJV
3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:
33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
37 But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.
43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.
44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.
45 Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season?
46 Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.
47 Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods.
48 But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming;
49 And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken;
50 The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of,
51 And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

I Will Be More Than Glad To Help You Untangle The Spiders Web Spun By Luis De Alcasar, Post Your Questions Regarding (Partial Preterism) It's Not Found In The Holy Scripture, Just As The Dispy's Secret Rapture & Millennial Kingdom Isn't.

Jesus Christ Is Lord

Truth7t7

 

[BABerean2]

I Pry You Do The Same With Your (Preterist) Interpretation Of The Olivet Discourse, Staight From The Roman Catholic Jesuit Priest Luis De Alcasar.

I would be considered a "partial-preterist" in the same way that Jesus was a partial-preterist in the Olivet Discourse, by speaking of the destruction of the temple in Luke 21:20-24, and His future Second Coming in Luke 21:25-28.

Go back and study post #36 above if you want to understand the timing of the Olivet Discourse.

Full-Preterism is considered a heretical teaching by many, and I am one of those many.

Jesus did not return in 70 AD, since He remained seated at the Father's right hand.
He allowed the Romans to destroy the city and the temple in the same way that the Babylonians had destroyed it in the past.

Make sure you know the difference between "partial-preterism" as used by Christ in the Olivet Discourse and "Full-Preterism", which has been a forbidden topic on this forum in the past, before you try to put me inside of a box.

I am well aware of the history of the Jesuits in both the Preterist (Alcasar) and Futurist (Ribera) systems of interpretation.
Both systems have their problems.

As a former Dispensationalist, you have been immersed in Ribera's Futurist system.
Make sure you have re-examined everything in the light of the New Covenant.


Who Confirmed The Covenant?
James Lloyd
http://christianmediaresearch.com/node/1023

 

[Truth7t7]

DECEIVERS

Matthew: "And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you, For many shall come in my name saying, I am Christ, and shall deceive many" (24:4,5).

Mark: "And Jesus answering them began to say, Take heed lest any man deceive you; For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ, and shall deceive many" (13:5,6).

Luke: "And he said, Take heed that ye be not deceived; for many shall come in my name saying, I am Christ, and the time draweth near; go ye not therefore after them" (21:8).

Did such deceivers or false Christs arise and deceive many in those years before the destruction of Jerusalem? Yes.

According to Josephus, the noted Jewish historian, twelve years after our Saviour's death, a certain impostor named Theudas persuaded a great multitude to follow him to the river Jordan which he claimed would divide for their passage. At the time of Felix (who is mentioned in the book of Acts), the country of the Jews was filled with impostors who Felix had put to death EVERY DAY—a statement which indicates that there were "many" of such in those days.

An Egyptian who "pretended to be a prophet" gathered 30,000 men, claiming that he would show "how, at his command, the walls of Jerusalem would fall down."

Another deceiver was Simon, a sorcerer, who led people to believe he was the great power of God (See Acts 8). According to Irenaeus, Simon claimed to be the Son of God and creator of angels. Jerome says that he claimed to be the Word of God, the Almighty. Justin relates that he went to Rome and was acclaimed as a god by his magical powers.

Origen mentions a certain wonder-worker, Dositheus, who claimed he was the Christ foretold by Moses. Another deceiver in those days was Barchochebas who, according to Jerome, claimed to vomit flames. Bar-jesus is mentioned in Acts 13:6 as a sorcerer and false prophet. These are examples of the deceivers of whom history says there were "a great number," and of whom Jesus had prophesied that there would be "many."

WARS AND RUMORS OF WARS

Matthew: "And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars. See that ye be not troubled; for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet. For nation shall rise against nation and kingdom against kingdom" (24:6,7).

Mark: "And when ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars, be ye not troubled; for such things must needs be, but the end is not yet, For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom" (13:7, 8).

Luke: "But when ye shall hear of wars and commotions, be not terrified; for these things must first come to pass; but the end is not by and by [immediately]. Then said he unto them, Nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom (21:9,10).

We are told that when Jesus gave this prophecy, the Roman Empire was experiencing a general peace within its borders. Jesus explained to his disciples that they would be hearing of wars, rumors of wars, and commotions. And did they? Yes. Within a short time the Empire was filled with strife, insurrection, and wars.

Before the fall of Jerusalem, four Emperors came to violent deaths within the space of 18 months. According to the historian Suetonius (who lived during the latter part of the first century and the beginning of the second), Nero "drove a dagger into his throat.'' Galba was run down by horsemen. A soldier cut off his head and "thrusting his thumb into the mouth," carried the horrid trophy about. Otho "stabbed himself" in the breast. Vitellius was killed by slow torture and then "dragged by a hook into the Tiber." We can understand that such fate falling on the Emperors would naturally spread distress and insecurity through the Empire.

In the Annals of Tacitus, a Roman who wrote a history which covers the period prior to 70 A. D., we find such expressions as these: "Disturbances in Germany," "commotions in Africa," "commotions in Thrace," "insurrections in Gaul," "intrigues among the Parthians," "the war in Britain," "war in Armenia."

Among the Jews, the times became turbulent. In Seleucia, 50,000 Jews were killed. There was an uprising against them in Alexandria. In a battle between the Jews and Syrians in Caesarea, 20,000 were killed. During these times, Caligula ordered his statue placed in the temple at Jerusalem. The Jews refused to do this and lived in constant fear that the Emperor's armies would be sent into Palestine. This fear became so real that some of them did not even bother to till their fields.

But though there would be wars, rumours of wars, and commotions, Jesus told his disciples: "See that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the END is not yet." The word "end" that is used here is not the same Greek word as in the expression "end of the world." As Barnes says, the end here referred to is "the end of the Jewish economy; the destruction of Jerusalem."

Wars, rumors of wars, and commotions were of a general nature. These things were not signs of the end; to the contrary, they were given to show that the end was NOT yet. None of these things would be the sign which would cause the disciples to flee into the mountains.

FAMINES, PESTILENCES, EARTHQUAKES

Matthew. "And there shall be famines and pestilences, and earthquakes in divers places, all these are the beginning of sorrows (24:7,8).

Mark: "And there shall be earthquakes in divers places, and there shall be famines and troubles. These are the beginning of sorrows" (13:8).

Luke: "And great earthquakes shall be in divers places, and famines and pestilences, and fearful sights" (21:11).

The Bible records that there was famine "throughout all the world...in the days of Claudius Caesar (Acts 11:28). Judea was especially hard hit by famine. "The disciples, every man according to his ability, determined to send relief unto the brethren which dwelt in Judaea" (verse 29). Paul's instructions concerning this "collection [of fruit] for the saints" is recorded in First Corinthians 16:1-5; Rom. 15:25-28.

Historians such as Suetonius and others mention famine during those years. Tacitus speaks of a "failure in the crops, and a famine consequent thereupon." Eusebius also mentions famines during this time in Rome, Judea, and Greece. Yes, there were famines in those years before the fall of Jerusalem.

Along with famines, Jesus mentioned pestilence; that is, plagues, the spread of disease, epidemics. Famine and pestilence, of course, go hand in hand. When people do not have proper food or insufficient food, pestilence results. Suetonius wrote of "pestilence" at Rome in the days of Nero which was so severe that "within the space of one autumn there died no less than 30,000 persons." Josephus records that pestilences raged in Babylonia in A. D. 40. Tacitus tells of pestilences in Italy in A. D. 65. Yes, there were pestilences in those years before the destruction of Jerusalem.

During this period, Jesus said there would also be earthquakes in many places. Tacitus mentions earthquakes at Rome. He wrote that "Frequent earthquakes occurred, by which many houses were thrown down" and that "twelve populous cities of Asia fell in ruins from an earthquake."

Seneca, writing in the year 58 A. D., said: "How often have cities of Asia and Achaea fallen with one fatal shock! how many cities have been swallowed up in Syria! how many in Macedonia! how often has Cyprus been wasted by this calamity ! how often has Paphos become a ruin! News has often been brought us of the demolition of whole cities at once." He mentions the earthquake at Campania during the reign of Nero. In 60 A.D., Hierapous, Colosse, and Laodicea were overthrown—Laodicea being so self-sufficient that it recovered without the Imperial aid furnished other cities. In 63 A.D,, the city of Pompeii was greatly damaged by earthquake. There were earthquakes in Crete, Apamea, Smyrna, Miletus, Chios, Samos, and Judea. Earthquakes in divers places.

PERSECUTION AGAINST THE DISCIPLES

Matthew: "Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake. And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.., And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold" (24:9-12).

Mark: "They shall deliver you up to councils; and in the synagogues ye shall be beaten; and ye shall be brought before rulers and kings for my sake, for a testimony.., whatsoever shall be given you in that hour, that speak ye: for it is not ye that speak but the Holy Ghost... And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake" (13:9-13).

Luke: "They shall lay their hands on you, and persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues and into prisons, being brought before kings and rulers for my name's sake. And it shall turn to you for a testimony...I will give you a mouth and wisdom which all your adversaries shall not be able to gainsay nor resist...and some of you shall they cause to be put to death. And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake" (21:12-17).

The book of Acts gives a complete account of how the disciples were persecuted in the very ways Jesus had predicted. Let us take, for example, Acts 4: "And they laid hands on them [Peter and John], and put them in prison" (verse 3). They were brought before "rulers" (verses 5-7). And it turned into an opportunity to testify. Peter explained that "there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved" (verse 12). They were given a mouth of wisdom which their adversaries could not gainsay, for the men of the council "marveled" (verse 13). They were then commanded "not to speak at all nor teach in the name of Jesus" (verse 18). As Jesus had said, they were hated for his name's sake.

The same things are seen in Acts 5. Certain authorities "laid their hands on the apostles, and put them in the common prison" (verse 18). Later they were brought "before the council" (verse 27) and told to answer for continuing to teach in the name of Jesus (verse 28). Again they had opportunity to testify (verses 29-32). They were "beaten" (verse 40). As they departed from the "council", they rejoiced "that they were counted worthy to suffer for his name"(verse 41).

Or take Acts 6. There arose certain ones of the "synagogue" that disputed with Steven. "And they were not able to resist the wisdom and the spirit by which he spoke" (verses 9,10). Persecution resulted and he was brought into the "council " and questioned (verse 12). Again there was the opportunity to testify, the words of that testimony being given in Acts 7. Stephen was killed for his stand (verses 54-60). Jesus had said that some of them would be killed.

Notice Acts 8. "There was a great persecution against the church." Christians were put in "prison", but the result was that the word was preached (verses 1-4).

In Acts 16, Paul and Silas were beaten and cast into "prison." But it turned into an opportunity to testify and the Philippian jailor and his family were converted as a result (verses 22-34). In Acts 21, persecution resulted in Paul being beaten, brought before rulers, before whom he testified (Acts 22). In Acts 22:19 we read that Christians were "imprisoned and beat in every Synagogue."

In Acts 24, Paul was brought before Felix, the governor, and testified. He was given a mouth of wisdom which his adversaries could not gainsay—though they obtained an orator to speak against him. Paul's words even made Felix to "tremble." In Acts 25 and 26, Paul was brought before king Agrippa, the chief captains, and the principal men of the city. He was given a mouth of wisdom, for Agrippa said to Paul, "Almost thou persuadest me to be a Christian" (verse 28).

Jesus said the disciples would be afflicted, beaten, imprisoned; they would be hated for his name's sake and some would be killed; they would be brought before councils, rulers, and kings, for a testimony; they would be given a mouth of wisdom which their adversaries could not gainsay. Surely these things came to pass in those years—unmistakably fulfilled in every detail.

"And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many ...but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved" (Mt. 24:11,13). Peter, who was present when Jesus gave this prophecy (Mk. 13:3), later wrote about "false prophets" that had risen and of "many" that followed their pernicious ways (2 Peter 2). John, who also heard Jesus give this prophecy, recorded the fulfillment: "Many false prophets are gone out into the world" (l John 4:1). "Many deceivers are entered into the world" (2 John 7).

Paul also spoke of "false apostles, deceitful workers" (2 Cor. 11:13). He mentioned Hymenaeus and Philetus who taught false doctrines and overthrew the faith of some (2 Tim. 2:17, 18). By the time of his epistle to Titus, there were "many...deceivers ...who subvert whole houses, teaching things which they ought not" (Titus 1:10, 11).

The waters of truth were muddied by betrayals, false prophets, iniquity, and the love of many waxing cold. "But he that shall endure [such things] until the end, the same shall be saved" (Mt. 24:13)—both now and hereafter. We understand "end" here in a general sense, for unlike the use of this word in verses 6 and 14, this reference does not have the definite article in the Greek text.

GOSPEL TO BE PREACHED TO THE NATIONS

"And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then [not until then] shall the end come" (Mt. 24:14). Unless we take this verse clear out of its setting, "the end" in view here is the end or destruction which was to come upon Jerusalem and the temple. This was the question that Jesus was answering in the verses before, and the verses that follow are still speaking about Jerusalem and Judea. Jerusalem would be destroyed, but "first" the gospel would be preached unto all nations (Mk. 13:10).

It was a tremendous prophecy. Picture the scene. Here on the mount of Olives, Jesus was speaking these words to seemingly insignificant men. Who would have supposed that the names of these humble men would become known around the world and that even in our day—almost 2,000 years later—the seeds of truth that they planted would still be producing fruit? Who would have supposed that this unpopular gospel that Christ committed to these men would ever spread beyond that immediate area? Such a vast preaching program unto all nations seemed almost impossible of fulfillment. But it was fulfilled, and in a very real sense the gospel did go to all nations before the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 A. D..

On the day of Pentecost when the disciples were filled with the Holy Spirit, there were present in Jerusalem "devout men, out of every nation under heaven" (Acts 2:5). They heard the gospel preached by Peter and 3,000 were converted that day. Many of these, no doubt, returned to their various countries and preached the gospel.

Later when persecution came against the church, the believers at Jerusalem were scattered and "went every where preaching the word", throughout the regions of Judea and Samaria (Acts 8:1,4). Philip took the message to the city of Samaria with great results (verses 5-8). Later he was directed to a high ranking government official from Ethiopia who was gloriously converted (verses 26-40). It is believed that this man took the message to the continent of Africa and many were converted because of his influential testimony.

Peter took the message to the Gentiles at the house of Cornelius, an event that was a turning point in the missionary activities of the church (Acts 10, 11). The book of Acts gives a sketch of the mighty missionary work that advanced rapidly.

The message spread to Rome. By the time of Nero, the Christians had grown so numerous that they aroused the jealousy of the government. The story of the great fire in Rome in 64 A. D. —for which the Christians were falsely blamed—is well known. In writing to the Christians at Rome, Paul opens his epistle by saying, "Your faith is spoken of throughout the whole world" (Rom. 1:8), and his closing words talk about the gospel as having been "made known to all nations for the obedience of faith" (16:26).

Concerning even far away England, Newton says: "There is absolute certainty that Christianity was planted in this country in the days of the apostles, before the destruction of Jerusalem." Eusebius and also Theodoret inform us that the apostles preached the gospel in all the world and some of them "passed beyond the ocean to the Britannic isles."

By the time Paul wrote his letter to the Colossians, he could say: 'The gospel...is come unto you, as it is in all the world" (Col. 1:6). Likewise, in verse 23, he mentions '"the gospel which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven."

By 70 A. D., the gospel had gone forth to the world for a witness. No longer was God's message to man confined to one nation or race.


Source: "Great Prophecies of the Bible" by Ralph Woodrow

Focus On The Question, And Respond To The Scripture Presented

Question: Did The Second Advent And Resurrection Take Place "Immediately After The Tribulation" In 70AD?

Of Course It Didn't, The Writing In Matthew 24 Is To The Future Generation That Will Witness The Signs. And Second Advent, "They Shall See The Son Of Man Coming"

"This Generation" In Matthew 24:34 Is A Future Generation.

The Chapter Opens With The Question?

What Shall Be The Sign Of Thy Coming And Of The End Of The World?

The Complete Chapter Is Devoted To Answering This Question.

They Shall See The Son Of Man Coming? "The Second Advent"

Know That It Is Near, Even At The Doors? "The Second Advent"

Heaven And Earth Shall Pass Away? "At The Second Advent"

What Is The Day And Hour No Man Knows? "The Second Advent"

Matthew 24:3 & 29-51KJV
3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:
33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
37 But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.
43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.
44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.
45 Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season?
46 Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.
47 Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods.
48 But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming;
49 And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken;
50 The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of,
51 And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

I Will Be More Than Glad To Help You Untangle The Spiders Web Spun By Luis De Alcasar, Post Your Questions Regarding (Partial Preterism) It's Not Found In The Holy Scripture, Just As The Dispy's Secret Rapture & Millennial Kingdom Isn't.

Jesus Christ Is Lord

Truth7t7

 

[Truth7t7]

I would be considered a "partial-preterist" in the same way that Jesus was a partial-preterist in the Olivet Discourse, by speaking of the destruction of the temple in Luke 21:20-24, and His future Second Coming in Luke 21:25-28.

Go back and study post #36 above if you want to understand the timing of the Olivet Discourse.

Full-Preterism is considered a heretical teaching by many, and I am one of those many.

Jesus did not return in 70 AD, since He remained seated at the Father's right hand.
He allowed the Romans to destroy the city and the temple in the same way that the Babylonians had destroyed it in the past.

Make sure you know the difference between "partial-preterism" as used by Christ in the Olivet Discourse and "Full-Preterism", which has been a forbidden topic on this forum in the past, before you try to put me inside of a box.

I am well aware of the history of the Jesuits in both the Preterist (Alcasar) and Futurist (Ribera) systems of interpretation.
Both systems have their problems.

As a former Dispensationalist, you have been immersed in Ribera's Futurist system.
Make sure you have re-examined everything in the light of the New Covenant.


Who Confirmed The Covenant?
James Lloyd
http://christianmediaresearch.com/node/1023

I Read Your Post #36, Same Preterist Argument, Focusing On The Temple Destruction, Giving Disregard To The Main Question? What Shall Be The Sign Of Thy Coming And Of The End Of The World?

I'm Fully Aware Of The Differences Between (Partial) & (Full) Preterism.

Berean I Have No Axe To Grind, I Have Studied Both Systems, Compared Them To The Bible, Studied The Apostolic Church Fathers.

The Preterist 66-70AD Fulfillment Of The AOD, Antichrist, Great Trib, Nor The Disp'y Pre-Trib Rapture Or Millennial Kingdom On Earth Is Found In The Holy Scripture.

There Will Be A Future Revealing Of The Man Of Sin/Antichrist, Great Tribulation. Immediately After The Future Tribulation Is The Second Advent, Resurrection Of All, Final Judgment, Eternal Kingdom, On The Last Day.

Jesus Christ Didn't Teach 66-70AD Fulfillment Of The Second Advent And Resurrection "Immediately After The "Future" Tribulation" As Seen In Matthew 24:29-31 Below

The Second Advent And Resurrection Seen Is Future, And Will Take Place After The Future Great Tribulation.

Did The Second Advent And Resurrection Take Place "Immediately After The Tribulation" In 70AD?

Of Course It Didn't, The Writing In Matthew 24 Is To The Future Generation That Will Witness The Signs. And Second Advent, "They Shall See The Son Of Man Coming"

"This Generation" In Matthew 24:34 Is A Future Generation.

The Chapter Opens With The Question?

What Shall Be The Sign Of Thy Coming And Of The End Of The World?

The Complete Chapter Is Devoted To Answering This Question.

They Shall See The Son Of Man Coming? "The Second Advent"

Know That It Is Near, Even At The Doors? "The Second Advent"

Heaven And Earth Shall Pass Away? "At The Second Advent"

What Is The Day And Hour No Man Knows? "The Second Advent"

Matthew 24:3 & 29-51KJV
3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:
33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
37 But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.
43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.
44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.
45 Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season?
46 Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.
47 Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods.
48 But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming;
49 And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken;
50 The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of,
51 And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

I Will Be More Than Glad To Help You Untangle The Spiders Web Spun By Luis De Alcasar, Post Your Questions Regarding (Partial Preterism) It's Not Found In The Holy Scripture, Just As The Dispy's Secret Rapture & Millennial Kingdom Isn't.

Jesus Christ Is Lord

Truth7t7

 

[jgr]

Focus On The Question, And Respond To The Scripture Presented

Question: Did The Second Advent And Resurrection Take Place "Immediately After The Tribulation" In 70AD?

Of Course It Didn't, The Writing In Matthew 24 Is To The Future Generation That Will Witness The Signs. And Second Advent, "They Shall See The Son Of Man Coming"

"This Generation" In Matthew 24:34 Is A Future Generation.

The Chapter Opens With The Question?

What Shall Be The Sign Of Thy Coming And Of The End Of The World?

The Complete Chapter Is Devoted To Answering This Question.

They Shall See The Son Of Man Coming? "The Second Advent"

Know That It Is Near, Even At The Doors? "The Second Advent"

Heaven And Earth Shall Pass Away? "At The Second Advent"

What Is The Day And Hour No Man Knows? "The Second Advent"

Matthew 24:3 & 29-51KJV
3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:
33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
37 But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.
43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.
44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.
45 Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season?
46 Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.
47 Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods.
48 But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming;
49 And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken;
50 The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of,
51 And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

I Will Be More Than Glad To Help You Untangle The Spiders Web Spun By Luis De Alcasar, Post Your Questions Regarding (Partial Preterism) It's Not Found In The Holy Scripture, Just As The Dispy's Secret Rapture & Millennial Kingdom Isn't.

Jesus Christ Is Lord

Truth7t7

Verses 30-31 are Second Coming.

Everything in post 45 is recorded historically as being fulfilled.

 

[Truth7t7]

Verses 30-31 are Second Coming.

Everything in post 45 is recorded historically as being fulfilled.

Do You Believe The "Great Tribulation" Was Fulfilled In 66-70AD?

As You Believe Matthew 24:30-31 Represents A Future Event, As You Posted.

Truth7t7

 

[jgr]

Do You Believe The "Great Tribulation" Was Fulfilled In 66-70AD?

As You Believe Matthew 24:30-31 Represents A Future Event, As You Posted.

Truth7t7

Yes

 

[Truth7t7]

Yes

You Have Identified That The Great Tribulation As Seen In matthew 24:21 Took Place In 66-70AD With The Answer "Yes".

You Have Identified You Believe Matthew 24:29-31 Represents The Future Second Advent.

How Do You Separate The Great Tribulation Seen In Matthew 24:21 From The Future Advent Seen In Matthew 24:29-31 "Immediately After The Tribulation"?

To Make Your (Partial Preterist) System Of 66-70AD Fulfillment Of The Great Tribulation Work, Your Definition Of "Immediately After The Tribulation" Is Roughly 2000 Years And Waiting

Sorta Like A Rubber Ruler, Little Bit Of Bend And Twist?

You Will Closely Note, It Represents "The Tribulation Of "Those Days" Not A Different Tribulation From Matthew 24:21

Matthew 24:21KJV
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

Matthew 24:29-31KJV
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

 

[BABerean2]

I Read Your Post #36, Same Preterist Argument, Focusing On The Temple Destruction, Giving Disregard To The Main Question?

Do you deny that Luke 21:20-24 is about 70 AD?

.

 

[Truth7t7]

Do you deny that Luke 21:20-24 is about 70 AD?

.

No Luke 21:20-28 Below Is A Future Event, And The Future Generation That Will Experience/See These Signs Will Also Witness The Future Second Advent As Seen In Verse 27 Below

"Then" Shall They See The Son Of Man Coming.

I Don't Deny There Was A Roman Destruction Of Jerusalem In 66-70AD, However This Historical Event Did Not Fulfill Matthew 24 Or Luke 21.

Just As The 2nd And 3rd Century Apostolic Church Fathers Justin Martyr (100-165AD), Hippolytus Of Rome (170-235AD) & Iranaeus Of Lyon (202AD) Taught, They Saw A Future Antichrist, Abomination Of Desolation, And Great Tribulation From Their 2nd & 3rd Century Lives, As They Didn't See Luis De Alcasar's 66-70AD Fulfillment Either.

Luke 21:20-28KJV
20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.
21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.
22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.
23 But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people.
24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.
25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.

Justin Martyr 100-165AD

Dialogue With Trypho The Jew, (Chapter 32 & 110)

Christ ascended to heaven, after He rose again from the dead, the times now running on to their consummation; and he whom Daniel foretells would have dominion for a time, and times, and an half, is even already at the door, about to speak blasphemous and daring things against the Most High. But you, being ignorant of how long he will have dominion, hold another opinion.

Dialogue with Trypho (Chapter 32)

O unreasoning men! understanding not what has been proved by all these passages, that two advents of Christ have been announced: the one, in which He is set forth as suffering, inglorious, dishonoured, and crucified; but the other, in which He shall come from heaven with glory, when the man of apostasy, who speaks strange things against the Most High, shall venture to do unlawful deeds on the earth against us the Christians, who, having learned the true worship of God from the law, and the word which went forth from Jerusalem by means of the apostles of Jesus, have fled for safety to the God of Jacob and God of Israel;

Dialogue with Trypho (Chapter 110)

Irenaeus of Lyons, 202AD

Irenaeus, Against Heresies Book V, Chapter XXV

Chapter XXV.-The Fraud, Pride, and Tyrannical Kingdom of Antichrist, as Described by Daniel and Paul.

1. And not only by the particulars already mentioned, but also by means of the events which shall occur in the time of Antichrist is it shown that he, being an apostate and a robber, is anxious to be adored as God; and that, although a mere slave, he wishes himself to be proclaimed as a king. For he (Antichrist) being endued with all the power of the devil, shall come, not as a righteous king, nor as a legitimate king, [i.e., one] in subjection to God, but an impious, unjust, and lawless one; as an apostate, iniquitous and murderous; as a robber, concentrating in himself [all] satanic apostasy, and setting aside idols to persuade [men] that he himself is God, raising up himself as the only idol, having in himself the multifarious errors of the other idols. This he does, in order that they who do [now] worship the devil by means of many abominations, may serve himself by this one idol, of whom the apostle thus speaks in the second Epistle to the Thessalonians: "Unless there shall come a failing away first, and the man of sin shall be revealed, the son of perdition, who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he sitteth in the temple of God, showing himself as if he were God." The apostle therefore clearly points out his apostasy, and that he is lifted up above all that is called God, or that is worshipped-that is, above every idol-for these are indeed so called by men, but are not [really] gods; and that he will endeavour in a tyrannical manner to set himself forth as God.

2. Moreover, he (the apostle) has also pointed out this which I have shown in many ways, that the temple in Jerusalem was made by the direction of the true God. For the apostle himself, speaking in his own person, distinctly called it the temple of God. Now I have shown in the third book, that no one is termed God by the apostles when speaking for themselves, except Him who truly is God, the Father of our Lord, by whose directions the temple which is at Jerusalem was constructed for those purposes which I have already mentioned; in which [temple] the enemy shall sit, endeavouring to show himself as Christ, as the Lord also declares: "But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, which has been spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place (let him that readeth understand), then let those who are in Judea flee into the mountains; and he who is upon the house-top, let him not come down to take anything out of his house: for there shall then be great hardship, such as has not been from the beginning of the world until now, nor ever shall be."

HIPPOLYTUS OF ROME 170-235AD

TREATISE ON CHRIST AND ANTICHRIST.

5) But as time now presses for the consideration of the question immediately in hand, and as what has been already said in the introduction with regard to the glory of God, may suffice, it is proper that we take the Holy Scriptures themselves in hand, and find out from them what, and of what manner, the coming of Antichrist is; on what occasion and at what time that implores one shall be revealed; and whence and from what I tribe (he shall come); and what his name is, which is indicated by the number in the Scripture; and how he shall work error among the people, gathering them from the ends of the earth; and (how) he shall stir up tribulation and persecution against the saints; and how he shall glorify himself as God; and what his end shall be; and how the sudden appearing of the Lord shall be revealed froth heaven; and what the conflagration of the whole world shall be; and what the glorious and heavenly kingdom of the saints is to be, when they reign together with Christ; and what the punishment of the wicked by fire.

64) These things, then, being to come to pass, beloved, and the one week being divided into two parts, and the abomination of desolation being manifested then, and the two prophets and forerunners of the Lord having finished their course, and the whole world finally approaching the consummation, what remains but the coming of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ from heaven, for whom we have looked in hope? who shall bring the conflagration and just judgment upon all who have refused to believe on Him.

Jesus Christ Is The Lord

Truth7t7

 

[jgr]

You Have Identified That The Great Tribulation As Seen In matthew 24:21 Took Place In 66-70AD With The Answer "Yes".

You Have Identified You Believe Matthew 24:29-31 Represents The Future Second Advent.

How Do You Separate The Great Tribulation Seen In Matthew 24:21 From The Future Advent Seen In Matthew 24:29-31 "Immediately After The Tribulation"?

To Make Your (Partial Preterist) System Of 66-70AD Fulfillment Of The Great Tribulation Work, Your Definition Of "Immediately After The Tribulation" Is 2000+ Years And Waiting

Sorta Like A Rubber Ruler, Little Bit Of Bend And Twist?

You Will Closely Note, It Represents "The Tribulation Of "Those Days" Not A Different Tribulation From Matthew 24:21

Matthew 24:21KJV
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

Matthew 24:29-31KJV
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Matthew 24
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

This is an apocalyptic allegorical description of a seminal prophetic event in history -- the death of the Old Covenant era and economy, and the dawn of the New.

Compare its language with that of:

Acts 2
19 And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke:
20 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and notable day of the Lord come:

...which is Peter quoting Joel describing another seminal prophetic event -- the birth of the New Testament Church.

Such language is also found at various places in the OT e.g. Psalm 18 where David describes personal deliverance from his adversaries.

Matthew 24
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

The Greek "tote" translated "then" can refer to past, present, or future. Future is the most evident understanding here.

 

[Truth7t7]

Matthew 24
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

This is an apocalyptic allegorical description of a seminal prophetic event in history -- the death of the Old Covenant era and economy, and the dawn of the New.

Compare its language with that of:

Acts 2
19 And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke:
20 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and notable day of the Lord come:

...which is Peter quoting Joel describing another seminal prophetic event -- the birth of the New Testament Church.

Such language is also found at various places in the OT e.g. Psalm 18 where David describes personal deliverance from his adversaries.

Matthew 24
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

The Greek "tote" translated "then" can refer to past, present, or future. Future is the most evident understanding here.

Do You Deny "Tribulation" As Seen In Matthew 24:21 Has A Relationship To "Tribulation" Seen In Matthew 24:29?

Do You Deny "Those Days" In Matthew 24:29 Represents The "Tribulation" Seen In Matthew 2:21?

Do You Deny "Immediately" In Matthew 24:29 Represents Near, Quick?

Does "Immediately" Represent Nearly 2000 Years And Waiting For The Future Second Advent You See In Matthew 24:30?

Matthew 24:21-31KJV
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Truth7t7

 

[jgr]

Do You Deny "Tribulation" As Seen In Matthew 24:21 Has A Relationship To "Tribulation" Seen In Matthew 24:29?

Do You Deny "Those Days" In Matthew 24:29 Represents The "Tribulation" Seen In Matthew 2:21?

Do You Deny "Immediately" In Matthew 24:29 Represents Near, Quick?

Does "Immediately" Represent Nearly 2000 Years And Waiting For The Future Second Advent You See In Matthew 24:30?

Matthew 24:21-31KJV
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Truth7t7

"No" to the first three questions. I don't understand your 4th.

 

[Truth7t7]

"No" to the first three questions. I don't understand your 4th.

Ok JGR I Better Understand Your Position?

1. You State That The Tribulation Seen In Matthew 24:21 Was Fulfilled In 66-70AD

2. You Believe "Tribulation" As Seen In Matthew 24:29 Represented The Tribulation Seen In Matthew 24:21

3. You Believe "Immediately" Seen In Matthew 24:29 Represents Near/Quick

JGR How Is It You Believe The Great Tribulation Takes Place In 66-70AD When "Immediately After The Tribulation" We See The Second Advent In Matthew 24:30 "They Shall See The Son Of Man" That You Believe Is Future?

You Have A Tribulation Fulfilled In 66-70AD, Then "Immediately After this Tribulation" Near/Quick We See The Second Advent, That You Believe Is Future?

As Scripture Clearly Teaches, It's Impossible To Believe And Teach The Great Tribulation Took Place In 66-70AD, Because The Future Second Advent Is Seen Following This Great Tribulation "Immediately"?

Matthew 24:21-31KJV
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Truth7t7

 

[BABerean2]

No Luke 21:20-28 Below Is A Future Event

Almost all Bible scholars, including John Darby, agree that Luke 21:24 occurred during 70 AD.

"Consequently the Lord says nothing in Verse 20 (Luk_21:20) of the abomination of desolation spoken of by Daniel, but gives the fact of the siege of Jerusalem, and its then approaching desolation — not the end of the age, as in Matthew. These were the days of vengeance on the Jews, who had crowned their rebellion by rejecting the Lord. " (Commentary by John Nelson Darby)


It is the dividing line between the two questions in Matthew 24:3.

Mat 24:1　 Then Jesus went out and departed from the temple, and His disciples came up to show Him the buildings of the temple.　
Mat 24:2　 And Jesus said to them, "Do you not see all these things? Assuredly, I say to you, not one stone shall be left here upon another, that shall not be thrown down."　

Mat 24:3　 Now as He sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, "Tell us, when will these things be? And what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?"　



You have eliminated the first question.


Luk 21:24　 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.　

The end of the verse above gives a time period called "the times of the Gentiles", which ends at the future Second Coming of Christ found in the next few verses. (Luke 21:25-28)


Mar 13:9　 But take heed to yourselves: for they shall deliver you up to councils; and in the synagogues ye shall be beaten: and ye shall be brought before rulers and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them.　

Act 22:19　 And I said, Lord, they know that I imprisoned and beat in every synagogue them that believed on thee:　


Do you think modern Christians will be beaten in synagogues?

.