Abomination of Desolation aka Jerusalem surrounded by armies

[parousia70]

Regardless of whether or not the Roman armies (which were actually a multi national coalition led by Rome) WERE the AoD or Not, scripture dictates the timing of Jerusalem's surrounding as synonymous with the timing of the AoD:

COMPARE THIS:
14 “So when you see the ‘abomination of desolation,’ spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not” (let the reader understand), “then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 15 Let him who is on the housetop not go down into the house, nor enter to take anything out of his house. (Mark 13:14-15)

TO THIS:
15 “Therefore when you see the ‘abomination of desolation,’
spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place” (whoever reads, let him understand), 16 “then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. (Matt 24:15-16)

TO THIS:
20 “But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation is near. 21 Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those who are in the midst of her depart, and let not those who are in the country enter her.
(Luke 21:20-21)

Luke 21:20-24 is entirely parallel to Matt 24:15-17 and Mark 13:14-15

It's the Same "WHEN", it's the same "THEN" , it's the same "DESOLATION" being spoken of in all 3 SYNONYMOUS, PARALLEL passages.

 

[dfw69]

You did not quote the verse regarding the Abomination of Desolation.

Matthew 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand )

Daniel 12:11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days. 12 Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.


The AOD will be a statue image of the Antichrist standing.

Yep... And so because this is prophesied to take place Israel must be gathered again ... Under the false messiah Israel will be gathered and live in peace for a short season... And then the final antichrist will come and scatter Jerusalem one last time

 

[random person]

The Abomination of Desolation is spoken about through out the gospels.

Here is a list I would like everyone to pull out their bibles and read:

Matthew 11:38-41 (sign of Jonah, Jon. 3:4. Nineveh was given 40 days & repented, Israel is given roughly 40 years & does not repent)

Matthew 16:4 (once again the sign of Jonah!)

Matthew 21:40-44 & 22:1-10 (the kingdom taken away from Israel culminating in the AD 70 judgment & siege of Jerusalem and the kingdom given to the church)

Matthew 23:34-36 (the blood of ALL the prophets slain with Christ as the final prophet required of that generation during Jesus' first advent)

Matthew 24:15 (siege of Jerusalem AD 70 & abomination of desolation see Luke 21:20,24)

Mark 13:14 (siege of Jerusalem AD 70 & abomination of desolation see Luke 21:20,24)

Luke 4:25-27 (Jesus stirring words against the apostacy of Israel during His first advent)

Luke 11:29-30, 32 (once again the sign of Jonah!)

Luke 11:50-51 (once again the blood of ALL the prophets slain with Christ as the final prophet required of that generation during Jesus' first advent)

Luke 19:41-44 (Jesus mourns the siege of Jerusalem AD 70 and the abomination of desolation)

Luke 21:20,24 (siege of Jerusalem & abomination of desolation, see Matt. 24:15 & Mark 13:14)

Rev. 11:2 (siege of Jerusalem & abomination of desolation see Luke 21:24)

Rev. 17:5-6 (once again the blood of ALL the prophets slain with Christ as the final prophet required of that generation during Jesus' first advent)

Rev. 18:20,24 (once again the blood of ALL the prophets slain with Christ as the final prophet required of that generation during Jesus' first advent)

I left out some scripture verses, please dig out your bibles and read these too:

Matthew 27:25
Luke 23:28-31
John 4:20-24

And what exactly did Christ mean by this passage:


John 21:21-24

Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)


Peter seeing him saith to Jesus, Lord, and what shall this man do? Jesus saith unto him, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee? follow thou me. Then went this saying abroad among the brethren, that that disciple should not die: yet Jesus said not unto him, He shall not die; but, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee?

This is the disciple which testifieth of these things, and wrote these things: and we know that his testimony is true.



What about that? Is Jesus stating that John the Revelator will live for over 2,000 years until the Abomination of Desolation when Jerusalem will be surrounded by armies?????

 

[random person]

Regardless of whether or not the Roman armies (which were actually a multi national coalition led by Rome) WERE the AoD or Not, scripture dictates the timing of Jerusalem's surrounding as synonymous with the timing of the AoD:

COMPARE THIS:
14 “So when you see the ‘abomination of desolation,’ spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not” (let the reader understand), “then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 15 Let him who is on the housetop not go down into the house, nor enter to take anything out of his house. (Mark 13:14-15)

TO THIS:
15 “Therefore when you see the ‘abomination of desolation,’
spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place” (whoever reads, let him understand), 16 “then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. (Matt 24:15-16)

TO THIS:
20 “But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation is near. 21 Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those who are in the midst of her depart, and let not those who are in the country enter her.
(Luke 21:20-21)

Luke 21:20-24 is entirely parallel to Matt 24:15-17 and Mark 13:14-15

It's the Same "WHEN", it's the same "THEN" , it's the same "DESOLATION" being spoken of in all 3 SYNONYMOUS, PARALLEL passages.

Amen.

And if there is a Rapture, why is Jesus instructing followers to "FLEE"? "FLEE" from what? Aren't they safe during the Rapture?

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by dfw69

The aod is an idol ....placed in the future temple.... The image of the man of sin...that comes to life .. A golem....that speaks ...and will be worship and people will obey it
​

Yeah, I can see that. I mean, hey, a talking image, whose first impulse is not to fall down and worship it? You know that talking Abe Lincoln at Disneyland? It's all I can do to stop myself from worshipping it, and I don't even think the Old Abe himself was all that. And that giant talking mouse at Chuckie Cheese? I have to just focus on the Ski Ball game to keep from kowtowing to a mechanical rat.

So yeah, a jen-yoo-wine, golem, that'd be too much for anybody to resist.

It is future ...it has not happened yet

Any day now.

Or any month or year now.......

Rev 9:15
and loosed were the four messengers, who have been made ready for the hour, and day, and month, and year, that they may kill the third of men;

The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD

The day on which Titus encompassed Jerusalem was the feast of the Passover
and it is deserving of the very particular attention of the reader, that this was the anniversary of that memorable period in which the Jews crucified their Messiah! ...................

This memorable siege terminated on the eighth day of the ninth month, A. D. 70 : its duration was nearly five months,
the Romans having invested the city on the fourteenth day of the fourth month, preceeding.

.

 

[Codger]

The Abomination of desolation is the Roman Armies that surrounded and destroyed Jerusalem in 70 AD.

Abomination of desolation = Jerusalem surrounded by armies

The bible is its own best commentator

Event: Abomination of Desolation

Matthew 24:15

Mark 13:14

Luke Not Mentioned (no abomination of desolation is spoken of anywhere in the Gospel of Luke)

Event: Jerusalem surrounded by armies

Matthew Not Mentioned

Mark Not Mentioned

Luke 21:20


Conclusion:

Abomination fulfilled when Jerusalem surrounded by armies

Yes it was fulfilled - but by which army? There were four armies at Jerusalem from 66 to 70AD.

1. Agrippa II - sent a meager 3,000 cavalry to aid the peace party and the Cohort of Roman soldiers left by Florus who first attempted to put down the rebellion. This rebellion began when Eleazar ben Ananus stopped the daily sacrifices in the temple for Rome and the emperor. The battle for Jerusalem was initially between "brothers." It was between the Zealots and the peace party. The young Zealots thought they could win a war with the Romans. The older Peace party members led by Eleazar's father (former high priest Ananus ben Ananus) did not believe that they could win and wanted to make peace with the Romans.

The peace party (et al) holed up in the walled Royal Palace of Herod. Later the army of Agrippa and the Peace Party surrendered to the Zealots. Later the Romans also surrendered and when they had laid down their weapons they were slaughtered - about a Cohort or 600 men.

2. The next army was that of Cestius Gallus who came to put down the rebellion (Falling away) with somewhere between 30,000 and some say up to 45,000 troops. This was a collection of different armies the main Roman legion was the 12th.

Cestius for some reason retreated and was pursued by the Zealots and lost most of 6,000 troops. There was no Roman presence in Jerusalem after Cestius retreated until the coming of Titus at Passover of 70AD.

3 The third army was the 20,000 Idumeans who were granted entrance into the city where they slaughtered those of the peace party and the general populace. THe Zealots had sent for the Idumeans who were told that the peace party had sent to Vespasian for troops. The Idumeans later learned that this was a lie and withdrew from the city.

4. The forth army was that of Titus who some say had about 80,000 troops with him. He set up the siege of Jerusalem at Passover of 70AD when the city was gorged with pilgrims for the festival of unleavened bread. The siege calculates out to 136 days total - about 4 1/2 months.

I have heard it taught that the army of Titus was the AoD. Not so. The term Abomination that causes Desolation has a chronology attached to it. First the Abomination and then later the Desolation. The Temple was already destroyed when Titus arrived at it. AoD does not apply. A common misinterpretation.

Jesus told the writers of the synoptic Gospels that they should look for two events. When they saw these two events they should escape the city posthaste - without delay. When the Zealots were fighting with the peace party, which was holed up in the Royal Palace the peace party was so outnumbered that the fighting was restricted to the palace areas. But when Cestius arrived at the city the Zealots took over the Temple in defense against the Romans. You see here that the two events that Jesus warned about took place in just a matter of a day or two. The terrorist take over of the temple was the AoD. And the army of Cestius surrounding the city was the other sign. Both happened almost simultaneously.

Both of these events happened on about Cheshvan 4th 66AD. This was the very day that the 1,290 day clock of Daniel started ticking. !,290 days later Josephus tells us that the daily sacrifice failed. According to Daniel the war was over just 45 days later (1,335 days total). The Romans were shocked and surprised that the Zealots had surrendered. Although their initial surrender was a trick that failed. And so God had cut the siege short because of the "Elect" still remaining in the city at the time. It all fits together - if you want to see it. I suspect that a lot of people during the siege found the Messiah.

When Cestius retreated and the Zealots were out of the city for about 8 days this is when the Christians escaped and fled to Pella where as Revelation said that they were cared for for 1,269 days or 3 1/2 years during the fall and tribulation of those days. It really all does fit together.

 

[Interplanner]

Good detail, Codg!

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Yes it was fulfilled - but by which army? There were four armies at Jerusalem from 66 to 70AD..............

You see here that the two events that Jesus warned about took place in just a matter of a day or two.
The terrorist take over of the temple was the AoD. And the army of Cestius surrounding the city was the other sign. Both happened almost simultaneously.

Both of these events happened on about Cheshvan 4th 66AD.
This was the very day that the 1,290 day clock of Daniel started ticking. !,290 days later Josephus tells us that the daily sacrifice failed. According to Daniel the war was over just 45 days later (1,335 days total). The Romans were shocked and surprised that the Zealots had surrendered. Although their initial surrender was a trick that failed.

And so God had cut the siege short because of the "Elect" still remaining in the city at the time. It all fits together - if you want to see it. I suspect that a lot of people during the siege found the Messiah.

When Cestius retreated and the Zealots were out of the city for about 8 days this is when the Christians escaped and fled to Pella where as Revelation said that they were cared for for 1,269 days or 3 1/2 years during the fall and tribulation of those days. It really all does fit together.

Good post.
Did anyone notice that the siege last approx 5 months? The same amount of time as shown in 9:35! Amazing!

The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD

On the appearance of the Roman army, the factious Jews united, and, rushing furiously out of the city repulsed the tenth legion, which was with difficulty preserved.
This event caused a short suspension of hostilities, and, by opening the gates, gave an opportunity to such as were so disposed to make their escape ;..........

The day on which Titus encompassed Jerusalem, was the feast of the Passover......................

While the city was in this dismal situation, a Jew named Mannaeus fled to Titus, and informed him, that from the beginning of the siege (4th mo. 14th) to the 1st of 7th mo. following, one hundred and fifteen thousand eight hundred and eighty dead bodies had been carried through one gate only, which he had guarded.............

This memorable siege terminated on the eighth day of the ninth month, A. D. 70 : its duration was nearly five months,
the Romans having invested the city on the fourteenth day of the fourth month, preceeding.

Reve 9:35
And was given to them that not they should be killing them,
but that they should be being tormented five months.



.

 

[Bro in Christ]

Dan 8:13

Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain saint which spake, How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot?


Matt 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand

Mk 13:14 But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains:

2 thes 2: 4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.


2 thes 2:4 is the act of Abomination of Desolation with out stating the words....

has not happened yet

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Dan 8:13

Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain saint which spake,
How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot?

Matt 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand

Mk 13:14 But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains:

2 thes 2: 4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.


2 thes 2:4 is the act of Abomination of Desolation with out stating the words....

has not happened yet

I found this interesting concerning the use of "abomination" in Daniel.

http://www.christianforums.com/t7505784/
Quick evidence that Daniel 9:27 is not the abomination of desolation.

Hebrew Interlinear of Daniel 11:31 Showing the use of the Definite Article -
THE Abomination of Desolation
Hebrew Interlinear of Daniel 12:11 Showing the Absence of the Definite Article -
AN Abomination of Desolation

Daniel 11:31
and arms from him shall stand up and they profane/violate the sanctuary, the refuge and they take-away the continual and they give The-Abomination, one-making-desolate.

Daniel 12:11
And from time the continual is taken away and-to-give-of an-Abomination, one-desolating, days, thousand, two hundreds and ninety


.

 

[Bro in Christ]

any one can bring u-p argument against the bible... I say yes .. another states no

there can only be one who is right .... and I am at peace

 

[dfw69]

Dan 8:13

Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain saint which spake, How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot?


Matt 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand

Mk 13:14 But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains:

2 thes 2: 4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.


2 thes 2:4 is the act of Abomination of Desolation with out stating the words....

has not happened yet

Yep

 

[TPeterY]

And what exactly did Christ mean by this passage:


John 21:21-24

Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)


Peter seeing him saith to Jesus, Lord, and what shall this man do? Jesus saith unto him, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee? follow thou me. Then went this saying abroad among the brethren, that that disciple should not die: yet Jesus said not unto him, He shall not die; but, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee?

This is the disciple which testifieth of these things, and wrote these things: and we know that his testimony is true.

John 21:20-25
Easy-to-Read Version (ERV)
20 Peter turned and saw the follower Jesus loved very much walking behind them. (This was the follower who had leaned against Jesus at the supper and said, “Lord, who is it that will hand you over?”) 21 When Peter saw him behind them, he asked Jesus, “Lord, what about him?”

22 Jesus answered, “Maybe I want him to live until I come. That should not matter to you. You follow me!”

23 So a story spread among the followers of Jesus. They were saying that this follower would not die. But Jesus did not say he would not die. He only said, “Maybe I want him to live until I come. That should not matter to you.”

24 That follower is the one who is telling these things. He is the one who has now written them all down. We know that what he says is true.

25 There are many other things that Jesus did. If every one of them were written down, I think the whole world would not be big enough for all the books that would be written.

John 21:20-25 ERV - Peter turned and saw the follower Jesus - Bible Gateway


.

 

[TPeterY]

the Roman armies (which were actually a multi national coalition led by Rome)

One of the most accurate statement I've seen since joining CF.

 

[parousia70]

One of the most accurate statement I've seen since joining CF.

Thanks for recognizing!

The rest of that post is equally accurate as well, BTW.

 

[random person]

Thanks for recognizing!

The rest of that post is equally accurate as well, BTW.

I concur!

 

[ebedmelech]

The very first "abomination of desolation" which Daniel speaks of is in Daniel 11.

Why saints won't acknowledge it is beyond me. It is the reason the Jews have celebrated Hannukkah and were doing so before Jesus came into the world.

It is the very reason Jesus mentions it in the "Olivet Discourse" to the disciples! It was something that got their attenion because Antiochus Epiphanes was the one who desecrated the temple.

In mentioning this the disciples understand this prophecy is about the temple destruction.

It is found in 1 & 2 Maccabees, and is the reason for the Maccabean Revolt.

Research it...and you *may* get a better understanding.

 

[Bro in Christ]

when has 200 million man army ever surround Jerusalem in the past? .... rev 9:16

 

[Interplanner]

EbedM,
why do you skip Dan 9? don't you see how it builds on 8?

 

[ebedmelech]

EbedM,
why do you skip Dan 9? don't you see how it builds on 8?

I don't think Daniel 9 builds on 8.

Danuel 8 is another thing. Daniel 9 focuses on the return to the land after the 70 year captivity. Daniel is praying about that, and Gabriel answers that.