• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

Abiogenesis Progress

PsychoSarah

Chaotic Neutral
Jan 13, 2014
20,522
2,609
✟102,963.00
Gender
Female
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
In Relationship
There has been a lot of progress in the abiogenesis theory in recent years, and I thought it would be worth going over the basic steps of abiogenesis that HAVE been observed in labs.

1. Using models of ancient Earth conditions, simple sugars, amino acids, lipids, and nucleic acids are present and form naturally.

2. In the presence of energy (present on the ancient Earth in the forms of heat vents, and even lightening) promote these molecules to build up into larger, more complex molecules (the energy is not necessary for them to do so, it just makes the process faster). Nucleic acids form RNA, and some of these RNA molecules can and do independently replicate.

3. Lipids naturally form bilayers in liquid water (this is what cell membranes are). When these bubbles of lipids form, they capture molecules in the surrounding environment. They can also continue to capture molecules, eventually becoming larger and eventually dividing from the pressure into two lipid bubbles.

4. Lipid bubbles that capture RNA molecules that can replicate have the means to reproduce and pass down basic genetic material. Metabolism consists purely of the lipid bubble taking in molecules from its environment through diffusion (an unguided process), and molecules that don't end up getting used by the RNA to replicate or contribute to increasing the size of the lipid bubble (by becoming trapped inside) simply leave via the same mechanism. A simple life form has formed. They have a simple metabolism, grow, and divide to produce daughter cells with shared genetic material from the original cell. They do not have any complex organelles, and depend upon their environment being stable to maintain their existence.

This has all been observed in lab, and I mostly am referencing the work of Jack Szostak.
 

Saucy

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Jul 5, 2005
46,775
19,959
Michigan
✟896,120.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Republican
It's interesting, you have to create a world with the perfect ingredients to get this chemistry to produce something. It almost sounds...intelligently designed by intelligent people who knew the right mixture of stuff to put together to get the result they desired.
 
Upvote 0

PsychoSarah

Chaotic Neutral
Jan 13, 2014
20,522
2,609
✟102,963.00
Gender
Female
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
In Relationship
It's interesting, you have to create a world with the perfect ingredients to get this chemistry to produce something. It almost sounds...intelligently designed by intelligent people who knew the right mixture of stuff to put together to get the result they desired.
This is actually wrong, as several abiogenesis experiments have been successful without the same conditions. The experiments have changed as our understanding of what the environment of the ancient Earth was like has changed, and some people use different working models. Some conditions are more effective and faster at producing these results than others for sure, but there is quite a bit of wiggle room. Living beings are composed of the most common elements and compounds in the universe, so these conditions shouldn't actually be that rare in the universe. Furthermore, since evolution would act upon these living cells, those conditions wouldn't have to remain unchanging indefinitely.

Most of the single celled life on this planet actually died after the rise of cells that produced elemental oxygen as a byproduct of their metabolism. If I wanted to intelligently design a living system, I wouldn't have picked a planet without an ozone layer or equivalent, since without it the potential for organisms that live on land is lost. The early organisms had elemental sulfur as a byproduct and utilized hydrogen sulfide in their fermentation based metabolism. Were it not for the chance mutations that switched some cells into producing oxygen, cellular respiration as we know it may have been impossible, thus this would have been a planet of bacteria forever.
 
Upvote 0

frienden thalord

Well-Known Member
Apr 9, 2017
2,487
2,227
53
texas
✟90,343.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Single
It's interesting, you have to create a world with the perfect ingredients to get this chemistry to produce something. It almost sounds...intelligently designed by intelligent people who knew the right mixture of stuff to put together to get the result they desired.
Saucey.......................I love you!!!!
but lest they come to Christ.................the carnal mind can only reason as the carnal mind.
You tried......but we cant win her to Christ by science.........
either they believe and have life................or perish.
its sad ,
and ps.........I used to have the upmost scientific mind..............
praise the LORD , I was pulled out of all that...
its rather odd though................they keep trying to disprove God............
if HE don't exist to them ,why do they keep trying
well let me answer that one .
because deep in their conscious they have TO KNOW they are right
the what if............has to be eliminated
and so they can have peace of mind............
When we all STAND before GOD.................I bet like the man without
the wedding robes.........many will be SPEECHLESS on that day.........
cause it will be hard to disprove what you SEE on that day................
 
Upvote 0

SkyWriting

The Librarian
Site Supporter
Jan 10, 2010
37,281
8,501
Milwaukee
✟411,038.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
There has been a lot of progress in the abiogenesis theory in recent years, and I thought it would be worth going over the basic steps of abiogenesis that HAVE been observed in labs.
1. Using models of ancient Earth conditions...,2. In the presence of energy (present on the ancient Earth in the forms of heat vents, and even lightening) promote these molecules to build up into larger, more complex molecules...3. Lipids naturally form...4. Lipid bubbles...This has all been observed in lab, and I mostly am referencing the work of Jack Szostak.

I found no links or citations to science journals in your sermon.
Evidently you don't feel we need to know Jack.
So here are his published papers you fail to provide
to support your sermon.
"JACK SZOSTAK" - Google Scholar

Synthesizing life
Jack W. Szostak1, David P. Bartel1 & P. Luigi Luisi1
Top of page
Abstract
Advances in directed evolution and membrane biophysics make the synthesis of simple living cells, if not yet foreseeable reality, an imaginable goal. Overcoming the many scientific challenges along the way will deepen our understanding of the essence of cellular life and its origin on Earth.

The origins of cellular life
JP Schrum, TF Zhu, JW Szostak - Cold Spring Harbor …, 2010 - cshperspectives.cshlp.org
Abstract Understanding the origin of cellular life on Earth requires the discovery of plausible pathways for the transition from complex prebiotic chemistry to simple biology, defined as the emergence of chemical assemblies capable of Darwinian evolution. We have proposed...

Origins of life: Systems chemistry on early Earth
JW Szostak - Nature, 2009 - nature.com
For 40 years, efforts to understand the prebiotic synthesis of the ribonucleotide building blocks of RNA have been based on the assumption that they must have assembled from their three molecular components: a nucleobase (which can be adenine, guanine, cytosine or uracil), a...

Expanding roles for diverse physical phenomena during the origin of life
I Budin, JW Szostak - Annual review of biophysics, 2010 - annualreviews.org
Recent synthetic approaches to understanding the origin of life have yielded insights into plausible pathways for the emergence of the first cells. Here we review current experiments with implications for the origin of life, emphasizing the ability of unexpected physical...
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

pitabread

Well-Known Member
Jan 29, 2017
12,920
13,373
Frozen North
✟344,333.00
Country
Canada
Gender
Male
Faith
Agnostic
Marital Status
Private
It's interesting, you have to create a world with the perfect ingredients to get this chemistry to produce something. It almost sounds...intelligently designed by intelligent people who knew the right mixture of stuff to put together to get the result they desired.

Considering the sheer size and scope of the universe, it seems a lot less remarkable. In fact, if the universe was created solely for the existence of life on this one planet, it's really just a lot of wasted space.
 
Last edited:
  • Agree
Reactions: tyke
Upvote 0

pitabread

Well-Known Member
Jan 29, 2017
12,920
13,373
Frozen North
✟344,333.00
Country
Canada
Gender
Male
Faith
Agnostic
Marital Status
Private
Upvote 0

Speedwell

Well-Known Member
May 11, 2016
23,928
17,626
82
St Charles, IL
✟347,280.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Other Religion
Marital Status
Married
Saucey.......................I love you!!!!
but lest they come to Christ.................the carnal mind can only reason as the carnal mind.
You tried......but we cant win her to Christ by science.........
either they believe and have life................or perish.
its sad ,
and ps.........I used to have the upmost scientific mind..............
praise the LORD , I was pulled out of all that...
its rather odd though................they keep trying to disprove God............
if HE don't exist to them ,why do they keep trying
well let me answer that one .
because deep in their conscious they have TO KNOW they are right
the what if............has to be eliminated
and so they can have peace of mind............
When we all STAND before GOD.................I bet like the man without
the wedding robes.........many will be SPEECHLESS on that day.........
cause it will be hard to disprove what you SEE on that day................
Can you win anyone to to Christ by science?
 
Upvote 0

frienden thalord

Well-Known Member
Apr 9, 2017
2,487
2,227
53
texas
✟90,343.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Single
this is my best guess here.........
but often when one is this hard against the truth.......
usually they believed at some point in their life.....but fell away
and now have to spend the rest of their life justify why they are right ...
but often also..................some do return .
within the conscious deep , deep within.................their lies that what if........
JESUS once said something an this sums the
whole up.
the ONLY condemnation one has , is that LIGHT has indeed come into the world
but men have loved darkness rather than light.........
and wont come to the LIGHT ,lest their deeds be reproved,
modern language.........
man wont come to the LIGHT , because he cant let go of his love of sin
or lifestyle.
this too is why many fall away............diverse lusts........enter in and choke the word.
But I want my lovely sarah to know this one thing........
YOU can have the gift of life IN Christ.............
for I truly was one of the worst vile men .............and he drew me to the SON
and CHANGED ME............he can you too............
come sarah that ye may have life......................
 
Upvote 0

pitabread

Well-Known Member
Jan 29, 2017
12,920
13,373
Frozen North
✟344,333.00
Country
Canada
Gender
Male
Faith
Agnostic
Marital Status
Private
Seriously folks, this is literally the first result when searching for Jack Szostak:

Szostak Lab: Home

Which contains references to current research and dozens of publications. Took all of 5 seconds to find.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Speedwell

Well-Known Member
May 11, 2016
23,928
17,626
82
St Charles, IL
✟347,280.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Other Religion
Marital Status
Married
this is my best guess here.........
but often when one is this hard against the truth.......
usually they believed at some point in their life.....but fell away
and now have to spend the rest of their life justify why they are right ...
but often also..................some do return .
within the conscious deep , deep within.................their lies that what if........
JESUS once said something an this sums the
whole up.
the ONLY condemnation one has , is that LIGHT has indeed come into the world
but men have loved darkness rather than light.........
and wont come to the LIGHT ,lest their deeds be reproved,
modern language.........
man wont come to the LIGHT , because he cant let go of his love of sin
or lifestyle.
this too is why many fall away............diverse lusts........enter in and choke the word.
But I want my lovely sarah to know this one thing........
YOU can have the gift of life IN Christ.............
for I truly was one of the worst vile men .............and he drew me to the SON
and CHANGED ME............he can you too............
come sarah that ye may have life......................
But what does that have to do with science?
 
  • Like
Reactions: tyke
Upvote 0

frienden thalord

Well-Known Member
Apr 9, 2017
2,487
2,227
53
texas
✟90,343.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Single
Can you win anyone to to Christ by science?
WE can win none to CHRIST by the wisdom of men
pual knew it , so do I,
tis why I don't preach science............just CHRIST and him crucified.
we love you sarah.................don't ever forget that....................I do.....................
 
Upvote 0

pitabread

Well-Known Member
Jan 29, 2017
12,920
13,373
Frozen North
✟344,333.00
Country
Canada
Gender
Male
Faith
Agnostic
Marital Status
Private
Can you win anyone to to Christ by science?

A better question is can one win anyone to Christ with random capitalization, broken sentences, no regard for proper writing style, and attempted derailment of what could otherwise be an interesting thread?

I would wager no, no they can't.
 
Upvote 0

SkyWriting

The Librarian
Site Supporter
Jan 10, 2010
37,281
8,501
Milwaukee
✟411,038.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Were it not for the chance mutations that switched some cells into producing oxygen, cellular respiration as we know it may have been impossible, thus this would have been a planet of bacteria forever.

Engineers reject the concept of "random" or "chance" becasue it doesn't exist.
 
Upvote 0

Speedwell

Well-Known Member
May 11, 2016
23,928
17,626
82
St Charles, IL
✟347,280.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Other Religion
Marital Status
Married
I changed it to engineers.
From The Mathematics of Physics and Modern Engineering by Sokolnikoff & Redheffer (a standard handbook for engineers):

"Random: Predictable by no known algorithm."

So they don't believe in it but define it anyway??
 
Upvote 0

SkyWriting

The Librarian
Site Supporter
Jan 10, 2010
37,281
8,501
Milwaukee
✟411,038.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
From The Mathematics of Physics and Modern Engineering by Sokolnikoff & Redheffer (a standard handbook for engineers):

"Random: Predictable by no known algorithm."

So they don't believe in it but define it anyway??

Yes. It defined as the language of ignorance.
Ignorance is also clearly defined, for some season.
 
Upvote 0