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Aaaaaaaarrrrrgggghhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

oneofthem

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So we've been together for about a year and a half, and we're getting married in less than three weeks. We have struggled on and off throughout that time with fornication. To be explicit, no, we haven't done it, but we've crossed other lines. Then a couple of nights ago, we nearly stuffed up again but we didn't, then last night we did. We have lost count of how many times we have screwed up. No amount of conviction and moral knowledge seems to be enough to make us not do it. I will say that we have grown and matured through this time, but i'm just so so so sick of the game we play and i'm so sick of it being wrong. WHY WHY WHY!!?? Why does no one talk about this stuff openly at church? Why can't they cover this in marriage courses? Why is there no accountability system with other couples? Why do we make choices that we know are wrong?
 

miss_klara

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Firstly, you're not stupid!!! It's one of the easiest traps to fall into when you're in a serious relationship (not that everyone feels as tempted as others, but a lot of people sure do!!) The best you can do is to just keep repenting, keep giving it over to God, keep earnestly asking Him to take it away - and hey, at least you only have to deal with it another 3 weeks... In the mean time, just hold off on being alone together at all. Avoid your place, his place, cars, movie theatres, any secluded areas...
I agree that the church doesn't talk about it enough, but have you asked other friends in serious relationships if they have struggles? I think you'll find that you know at least one other couple that shares your struggle and can act as accountability partners until you get married.
 
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oneofthem

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Okay, i know i'm not stupid. I used the word loosely, because it was shorter than "how can we walk around the same mountain 100 times and still not learn this lesson?" I just don't know what it's going to take. I want a magic formula!

We're in a bit of a church transition at the moment. We're moving from a big church to a small church, and we're in the process of establishing new community. He has been really good with accountability, he's in touch with some guys from the new church. I have someone who i have confessed stuff to on and off which has been helpful too.
 
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ShinigamiMommy

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I like to use St. Augustine as an example. In his early years, he was a party animal and a fornicator. He had a few children out of wedlock from different women. But look where he is now. He's a saint, and a doctor of the catholic church. You're on your way to marriage and I'm sure you'll be forgiven if you stay in the light of Christ.
 
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holo

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So we've been together for about a year and a half, and we're getting married in less than three weeks. We have struggled on and off throughout that time with fornication. To be explicit, no, we haven't done it, but we've crossed other lines. Then a couple of nights ago, we nearly stuffed up again but we didn't, then last night we did. We have lost count of how many times we have screwed up. No amount of conviction and moral knowledge seems to be enough to make us not do it. I will say that we have grown and matured through this time, but i'm just so so so sick of the game we play and i'm so sick of it being wrong. WHY WHY WHY!!?? Why does no one talk about this stuff openly at church? Why can't they cover this in marriage courses? Why is there no accountability system with other couples? Why do we make choices that we know are wrong?
The problem isn't that you're weak, but that you're trying to live according to a commandment, according to the letter, as Paul said. The way you're trying to do it will never work. Not now, not later. Because you're not living in grace, you're not depending on God, but rather trying to act according to some moral standard.

The problem is that the commandment is the power of sin. Tell someone that they must absolutely not, under any circumstance, push the big red button. What do you think will be on their minds? Pushing the button. Tell a kid (try this at home, it's actually quite amusing) that he must NOT look in a particular cupboard. Of all the cupboards in the house, guess which one he won't be able to stay out of? Tell Israel not to have other gods. What will they do? Build a golden calf. Tell Paul not to covet. Will it make him not covet? No, sin will take advantage of the commandment and produce in him "every covetous desire". Tell Adam and Eve that the only thing they can't do is to eat from a certain tree. Which tree could the serpent tempt them with?

Do you see what's happening? The commandment is still the power of sin. The commandment is good, as are your intentions, but it doens't help you, does it? Trying to live according to commandments simply doesn't work.

You need to climb out of the law tree and stop eating that forbidden fruit. It only makes you tempted by sin, and then exposes your nudity. The commandment looks so good that people tend to gaze on it. And you know what happens when you gaze on the commandment? You don't gaze on Jesus. And what happens when you don't gaze on Jesus? You sink. But when you DO gaze on Jesus, you will conquer everything.

Get down from the law tree and up in the grace tree. Your freedom lies in realizing that you're FREE from the law, you're FREE from condemnation, you're FREE from guilt. There IS no condemnation for you. Period.
 
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Weasel7711

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So we've been together for about a year and a half, and we're getting married in less than three weeks. We have struggled on and off throughout that time with fornication. To be explicit, no, we haven't done it, but we've crossed other lines. Then a couple of nights ago, we nearly stuffed up again but we didn't, then last night we did. We have lost count of how many times we have screwed up. No amount of conviction and moral knowledge seems to be enough to make us not do it. I will say that we have grown and matured through this time, but i'm just so so so sick of the game we play and i'm so sick of it being wrong. WHY WHY WHY!!?? Why does no one talk about this stuff openly at church? Why can't they cover this in marriage courses? Why is there no accountability system with other couples? Why do we make choices that we know are wrong?
Try to examine the situation more closely. What is causing you to do these things that you have resolved to do. For example, maybe you are tempted when you are alone in the bedroom together, the solution to stay away from the bedroom together. If your hand causes you to sin cut it off.

I can see where holo is getting at but I disagree with his methods. Grace is amazing and it is offered to us unconditionally, however while we are technically free there are things that we can freely choose to do which can ensnare us. Paul says in 1 Cor 6 and in 10 that all things are permissible but not all things are beneficial and that he will not be mastered by anything. Then there's always the Holy Spirit whom will convict you when you are getting into a danger zone. Learn to listen to the voice of the holy spirit. If you have been ignoring him for a while it will be harder to recognize his voice. Spend time with God in His Word and in prayer. Draw near to him and he will draw near to you, for where the spirit of the Lord is there is liberty. We aren't saved by the law, but the law was made to protect us. I don't think God just made up a bunch of rules just to screw with humanity. Thus following the leading of the holy spirit and scripture will lead you to the most fulfilling life God has for you, but don't get caught up on being perfect, none of us are.
 
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oneofthem

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Hi.

Thanks for your responses.

I'm hoping our busyness with wedding plans will give us a distraction and some time to cool off. I have also been in the word and i am reading proverbs at the moment. This can be a good or bad thing depending on how i think my performance is going. If i read proverbs on a bad day, i start thinking "yes, i'm a fool, yes i am an immoral woman, these will be the consequences of my behaviour". It is hard to read when i am struggling to understand the covenant of grace.

It's one of those mentalities where it's easy to go to either end, but we need to have a firm grasp of both. (I'm referring to grace and law). The law convicts us of sin, and so it should because that is it's rightful place in our lives. I don't want to avoid feeling the grief that is a consequence of this sin, because sin seperates us from God and a failing morally is not a trivial issue.

On the other hand, we are not to wallow in the guilt of our sin, because that would deny that we have been forgiven and cleansed by God for that sin completely. It denies the power of the cross, and we can't add anything to His sacrifice by staying there. But then if we just shrug off the seriousness of it, how then can we maintain willingness?

God, change us and teach us the lessons that we would have learned if we hadn't failed.

Looking back, i can see that we made some decisions but not others to stay pure. Yes, we kept accountable mostly to the right people, yes we felt sorry and repented and got back up again and again, but no, we did not stop hanging out in his car or at mine or his place alone. In those situations, we struggled to make right choices, but we could have made a wise and sacrificing choice ahead of time that would have prevented us from compromising.

Blah blah blah i feel like i'm trying to pep talk myself out of this. So over it. I just want to have sex and not be seperated from God!
 
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BeautifulDestiny09

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You are lucky, you're getting married in three weeks. Me and my fiance' aren't getting married until next year!!!! However, we try to stay focused on God...we realize we aren't perfect, but trust me, I know how you feel...it's harder for me and him to have accountability partners...besides my parents, we really don't know any other married couples...we go to separate churches (but I do plan to join his church soon) but I do know exactly how you feel...me and him struggle the exact way that you guys do...whatever you do, just don't give up completely! Me and him still strive to do better...no matter how much we screw up! And I think that God takes notice of that...
 
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HOPEOF9

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My hubby and I found that spending less time alone together helped tremendously. There was one point that if he would have asked, I would have said yes...it is shameful to even admit, but it's the truth.
spend more time on the phone and less time together.

Blessings!
 
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Ornela

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Haha, what are you waiting for if you both can't take it? I don't think it is a sin if you have sex with your boyfriend before the wedding. I mean clearly it is not the wedding ceremony that decides if you two are married or not right? If you think that having the ceremony at church will decide that, then you are saying that the priest has more authority over your life events than God has. Marriage is when you two love each other and decide to commit all your life to each other forever and then you have sex. (haven't you read in the old testament how it says that back in those times the couple would get inside a tent and have intercourse and then when they would get out of it they were considered married? Who do you think married Adam and Eve? You think there was a priest then? NO, God married them.) It's weird how peolpe have made their lives misareable with this ''rule'' because it is too much to bear. A rule that God didn't give to us, people, the catholic church made it up so that they could have absolute control over people's lives. Adultery is a sin, fornication (sleeping with a person whom you don't love or have anything to do with in the terms of future marriage)is a sin. To me the wedding ceremonies are good just to make it more official.

Haha, I used to be terrified that me and my hubby would end up having sex before the wedding night too but now I am not anymore. Thank God! It is great being enlightened!
 
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BeautifulDestiny09

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God clearly states in the bible that we MUST follow the law, and if the law states that you are NOT married, then you aren't...which means you can't have sex!!!! This would go back to the thread "If you are engaged, are you still fornicating?" God created these parameters FOR A REASON...He knew that sex outside of the protection of marriage has its consequences...for one, most of us, it separates us from God...and you don't want to do anything that will bring you farther from God instead of closer...
Point blank, WE KNOW WHAT IS WRONG and WHAT IS RIGHT...and we all have to answer to God one day about our actions...dont let others opinions sway you into making choices that are really up to you and your fiance'! I think God winks at our ignorance if we don't know, but one phrase that rings true in my head is "Once you know better, you DO better."
In the end, you answer to NO ONE but GOD...
 
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BigNorsk

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So we've been together for about a year and a half, and we're getting married in less than three weeks. We have struggled on and off throughout that time with fornication. To be explicit, no, we haven't done it, but we've crossed other lines. Then a couple of nights ago, we nearly stuffed up again but we didn't, then last night we did. We have lost count of how many times we have screwed up. No amount of conviction and moral knowledge seems to be enough to make us not do it. I will say that we have grown and matured through this time, but i'm just so so so sick of the game we play and i'm so sick of it being wrong. WHY WHY WHY!!?? Why does no one talk about this stuff openly at church? Why can't they cover this in marriage courses? Why is there no accountability system with other couples? Why do we make choices that we know are wrong?

I've know more than one pastor who's publically warned against long engagements as times of great temptation.

As for the classes, by the time people take them, they've already decided to marry, they've already set a date and so on. In other words, the couple really isn't asking to be instructed in many things. Normally what you do is try to mention things (usually ignored at the time but maybe it will be recalled later when needed) that will help them in their marriage.

About half the time, if the couple was paying attention in marriage class the conclusion they would reach is that they shouldn't get married. But by then they aren't willing to call it off.

In many ways the big ceremony and showing off has become the important thing. It's more a social statement than a joining of a man and woman. Since that social statement is the priority, you see things like long engagements and such because schedules have to be made, places rented and lots and lots of money spent.

It's not surprising that causes problems for people, those same things will continue to cause problems for them after the wedding.

If you cannot resist. Then go and get married. Then still have the ceremony later since it is already probably mostly planned and paid for. Or give up on the big ceremony and being married on Valentine's Day altogether and just get married. If you've got a honeymoon trip planned for then, you can still take it.

Marriage isn't causing your problem, a wedding ceremony is.

Marv
 
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oneofthem

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Hey, thanks everyone for your encouragement and empowering words. We were good-ish this weekend. Ie, we didn't fornicate. In hindsight, i do believe things would have been so much easier if we had never kissed. There were even periods of time where we tried to do the "non kissing" thing. 18 months is a hard slog but God knows we did our best. We'll be married in 2 weeks! Hoorah!
 
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