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[Minister Monardo]

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[TheWhat?]

Here's some interesting things about 'sympaschō', translated as "suffer" in Romans 8:17

The outline of biblical usage according to Strongs is:

1. to suffer or feel pain together
   
   
2. to suffer evils (troubles, persecutions) in the like manner with another

This is rather convenient for my point as this seems to reflect the choice in interpretation on the overall picture of suffering presented by the NT. In the first definition, the key point is to suffer together, that is, taken not so unlike our english definition of sympathy or empathy, it is to experience another's pain. Taken in the second sense, to be crucified yourself is not necessarily to feel another's pain, it is to experience your own.

Why do I think this is relevant? Because Paul emphasizes the circumcision of the heart, and because experiencing the pain of Christ is different than experiencing our own. There are many, unfortunately, who take the latter in a sense to justify the suffering of christians, as if to increase their suffering and contribute to their persecution is a good thing, or encourage them in a direction of believing they must atone for themselves, nullifying the atonement of Christ on our behalf. God forbid.

 

[Minister Monardo]

Here's some interesting things about 'sympaschō', translated as "suffer" in Romans 8:17

Is this to say that you noted how I translated it in the OP?

17 and if children, then heirs—heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ, if indeed
we suffer together, that we may also be glorified together.

 

[Minister Monardo]

There are many, unfortunately, who take the latter in a sense to justify the suffering of christians, as if to increase their suffering and contribute to their persecution is a good thing, or encourage them in a direction of believing they must atone for themselves, nullifying the atonement of Christ on our behalf. God forbid.

Unfortunately, we have to accept that the world will persecute Christians and need no
scriptural justification. We still have to press through this, and by the grace of God we have
one another to bear that burden. This is a major theme of 1 Peter.
1 Peter 4:
12 Beloved, do not think it strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you, as though some strange thing happened to you;
13 but rejoice to the extent that you partake of Christ’s sufferings, that when His glory is revealed,
you may also be glad with exceeding joy.
14 If you are reproached for the name of Christ, blessed are you, for the Spirit of glory and of God
rests upon you. On their part He is blasphemed, but on your part He is glorified.
15 But let none of you suffer as a murderer, a thief, an evildoer, or as a busybody in other people’s matters.
16 Yet if anyone suffers as a Christian, let him not be ashamed, but let him glorify God in this matter.

Paul calls this the "law of Christ". Sounds obligatory!
Galatians 6:2 Bear one another’s burdens, and so fulfill the law of Christ.

 

[TheWhat?]

Is this to say that you noted how I translated it in the OP?

Sure, there's nothing wrong with the verses you quoted. It's just one of those things that I can't, for the life of me, figure out how people allow themselves to rationalize. Like privacy for instance -- someone reads one verse about exposing things and suddenly thinks respect of privacy is no longer biblical, nevermind that spying on one's neighbor's nakedness can be very clearly against scripture. In this case, it's as if, after reading some verses, some of a similar mind suddenly turn to crucify christians, doing what anti-christian pagans did. It confounds me to no end how anyone can think this way.

 

[Minister Monardo]

Sure, there's nothing wrong with the verses you quoted.

I meant that I literally added "together" to Romans 8:17. NKJV- suffer with him. The translation
italicizes him because the word isn't there. I agree with you completely. Paul is saying we suffer
together, and Paul is not saying suffer with Christ Jesus. The church remaining faithful, not only
to Him, but to one another in the face of persecution and suffering.
No surprise, of course, if the children of darkness misuse scriptures to justify their unrighteous acts.
Their condemnation will be just.

 

[TheWhat?]

I meant that I literally added "together" to Romans 8:17. NKJV- suffer with him. The translation
italicizes him because the word isn't there. I agree with you completely. Paul is saying we suffer
together, and Paul is not saying suffer with Christ Jesus. The church remaining faithful, not only
to Him, but to one another in the face of persecution and suffering.
No surprise, of course, if the children of darkness misuse scriptures to justify their unrighteous acts.
Their condemnation will be just.

I agree, and although I'm aware of some strong words of condemnation on the subject, I'm not as angry as I used to be about it and I find myself wishing, hoping that everyone just gets a chance to go back to the way things were or ought to be.

 

[Minister Monardo]

I agree, and although I'm aware of some strong words of condemnation on the subject, I'm not as angry as I used to be about it and I find myself wishing, hoping that everyone just gets a chance to go back to the way things were or ought to be.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I am sure many would agree. At 65, I have learned to lower
my expectations of people, while sharing your hope for everyone. "In Christ alone".
John 2:
23 Now when He was in Jerusalem at the Passover, during the feast, many believed in His name
when they saw the signs which He did.
24 But Jesus did not commit Himself to them, because He knew all,
25 and had no need that anyone should testify of man, for He knew what was in man.