A truly frightening thought experiment about Ebola

[keith99]

Let me know when you find a walk-in clinic with an in-house lab, will you? Then I'll acknowledge you may have a point.Did you know that they are instructed to not ask specifically about Ebola? Here are the questions being asked by CBP officers at points of entry, for example:

• Have you recently been outside the country?
• Have you had contact with anyone who has?
• Have you recently used mass transit by air, train, or bus?
• Have you had your flu shot? (Really?? "Flu shot"?? And this has what to do with Ebola?
• Has anyone in your household not had a flu shot? (Same stunned response as above)
• Does your job put you in contact with the public?

These questions were being asked before nine U.S. airports began temp screenings as passengers arrived in customs. Those aren't the only airports where international passengers come into the U.S., however. They aren't asked about potential symptoms, either. And despite the gigantic error made by CDC in letting Amber Vinson travel, the agency hasn't updated its "fever guidelines" at points of entry, so that a passenger would have to be running a 100.4 degree fever before they would be referred to local medical care.

You watch too many movies. Doctors are not all geniuses and they donh't all think fast on their feet, or jump to exactly the right conclusions. Why? Because life is not resolved in 127 minutes, plus credits.

Bolding mine.

So they ask at customs if you have been out of the country? I think they already know the answer to that.

 

[Queller]

Bolding mine.

So they ask at customs if you have been out of the country? I think they already know the answer to that.

Actually, he didn't even get that part right. Those questions are from a news story that includes what questions a hospital in Macon, Georgia is asking patients to screen for Ebola, not CBP.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

.....
OK, we can all breathe again. This is fiction. It isn’t really happening. Is it?

look. check history. recent and longer. sandy hook. enron. savings and loan. polio. spanish flu deception. immuniz. deception. -)(sids, autism, aspergers, lower IQ across the board) .... etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc
oh, and war, war, and more war, draining/bankrupting over and over again the untied states. without reason.

look. check the Bible. does the Bible say to trust men? hint: not yes.

homework assignment for the ones still able to learn (most of the world cannot, including internet users).

look up colloidal silver , us army biological warfare summary.
vitamin c, linus pauling, viruses.
scurvy. vitmain c.

keep looking by the way, until you discover the truth, if it is even possible.(trust Yhvh and ask Him - He might permit it.)

the Bible. does the Bible say to trust flesh ?
or who then?
the answer is not welcome in the flesh or carnal socitey , no matter how religious.

 

[ThisBrotherOfHis]

When I wrote the short story that started this thread, many said, "Oh, health professionals will recognize Ebola. It won't get out of control." Or they said, "The CDC is in control. They won't let things get out of hand."

This morning, we have this:

New York doctor diagnosed with Ebola; health officials say no cause for panichttp://www.foxnews.com/health/2014/10/24/ebola-fear-epidemic-in-us-official-says/http://www.foxnews.com/health/2014/10/24/ebola-fear-epidemic-in-us-official-says/

An emergency room doctor who recently returned to the city after treating Ebola patients in West Africa tested positive Thursday for the virus, becoming the first case in the city and the fourth in the nation.
---
In the days before Spencer fell ill, he went on a 3-mile jog, went to the High Line park, rode the subway and, on Wednesday night, got a taxi to a Brooklyn bowling alley. Bassett said he felt fatigued Wednesday but not feverish until Thursday morning.

So my question to you is this: If a doctor who was on the front lines fighting Ebola in West Africa is this clueless, what makes you think anyone else knows what the hell they're doing?

 

[RDKirk]

I stopped reading the story when the man vomited blood.
In times of sensationalist media reports, someone with a fever + vomiting blood will be asked about travels immediately, and blood work follows. Ebola is going to be one of the first things that pop to mind, simply because it's all over the press.

Still, you have a nice style of writing and I wouldn't mind reading this short story as a novel.

It's been done. "Contagion" with a bit of "Andromeda Strain."

Yes, the US has been complacent because Ebola has been "over there," but this has been the 9/11 for Ebola. Last month's attitudes are not this month's attitudes.

 

[RDKirk]

When I wrote the short story that started this thread, many said, "Oh, health professionals will recognize Ebola. It won't get out of control." Or they said, "The CDC is in control. They won't let things get out of hand."

This morning, we have this:So my question to you is this: If a doctor who was on the front lines fighting Ebola in West Africa is this clueless, what makes you think anyone else knows what the hell they're doing?

From what I gather in the story, the doctor acted appropriately as soon as symptoms related to Ebola began. He had just returned from an arduous overseas mission, overdid the jogging and felt a bit fatigued. But when the first specific symptom appeared, he acted properly.

The "error," if we want to look at it in hindsight, is not presuming that everyone who has been in contact with Ebola patients, regardless of protection, is infected with Ebola.

It's probably not unreasonable for persons who routinely care for Ebola patients to have periodic blood tests run, not just fever monitoring.

 

[ThisBrotherOfHis]

From what I gather in the story, the doctor acted appropriately as soon as symptoms related to Ebola began. He had just returned from an arduous overseas mission, overdid the jogging and felt a bit fatigued. But when the first specific symptom appeared, he acted properly.

Actually, he waited two days before deciding to seek medical attention. He became achy and feverish on Tuesday. He didn't go to the hospital until his fever spiked at 103. He'd been feeling badly for at least 48 hours, during which time he went on his little errand-running jaunts and recreational outings.

The "error," if we want to look at it in hindsight, is not presuming that everyone who has been in contact with Ebola patients, regardless of protection, is infected with Ebola.

This doc was treating Ebola in West Africa. It should have been his first thought when he started feeling ill.

It's probably not unreasonable for persons who routinely care for Ebola patients to have periodic blood tests run, not just fever monitoring.

Good point. Given that close contact, I am having a hard time imagining why Spencer wouldn't immediately think "Ebola" when he got sick earlier in the week.

 

[RDKirk]

Actually, he waited two days before deciding to seek medical attention. He became achy and feverish on Tuesday. He didn't go to the hospital until his fever spiked at 103. He'd been feeling badly for at least 48 hours, during which time he went on his little errand-running jaunts and recreational outings.This doc was treating Ebola in West Africa. It should have been his first thought when he started feeling ill.Good point. Given that close contact, I am having a hard time imagining why Spencer wouldn't immediately think "Ebola" when he got sick earlier int he week.

As I mentioned, he had just completed an arduous overseas mission. A period of malaise was absolutely to be expected. He hadn't been feeling "badly," he'd been feeling "off"--again, totally to be expected. I've felt that way myself in the first days after returning from temporary duty in Third World countries.

I'd guess there was also a bit of doctor-ish arrogance, too, with an attitude of "I'm perfect in all I do--I did not make any mistakes, so this is something else."

Here is a story that might apply: A few years ago, John Hopkins did a study to find a way to reduce deaths from in-hospital infections. They tried a policy of having a nurse for each surgery whose sole job was monitoring the surgical team for flaws or "breaks" in their routine--and the nurse had the power to stop a doctor in his tracks and tell the doctor he'd broken protocol. The test had amazing results--infections cut by over half. But it was also soundly detested and rejected by the doctors, not only at John Hopkins but everywhere else.

 

[trunks2k]

• Have you had your flu shot? (Really?? "Flu shot"?? And this has what to do with Ebola?
• Has anyone in your household not had a flu shot? (Same stunned response as above)[/FONT][/SIZE]

Because early stages of ebola exhibit symptoms similar to the flu. Given that the list of questions seem to come from a hospital in the US, not CBP, it's more likely that a given patient is going to have the flu, rather than ebola. So the questions are intended to gauge how likely it is that they don't have just have the flu.

 

[ThisBrotherOfHis]

Because early stages of ebola exhibit symptoms similar to the flu. Given that the list of questions seem to come from a hospital in the US, not CBP, it's more likely that a given patient is going to have the flu, rather than ebola. So the questions are intended to gauge how likely it is that they don't have just have the flu.

Pfft! If what you say were true,t he question wouldn't be about a flu shot, it would be "Do you have any flu-like symptoms?"

This is a politically correct screening process designed not to "offend" anyone by "accusing them" of having Ebola!

 

[trunks2k]

Pfft! If what you say were true,t he question wouldn't be about a flu shot, it would be "Do you have any flu-like symptoms?"

That's not something that is necessary because those symptoms would, presumably, be part of their overall complaint.

Edit: Here's the article that list came from:
http://www.13wmaz.com/story/news/local/2014/10/16/ebola-screening/17377643/

Now, physicians at the Navicent Health ER are using screening questions on some of their patients, apparently to pinpoint possible Ebola cases.

Given that it is screening being used on SOME of the patients, I would presume that it's intended for people who are already reporting flu like sympotms.

 

[RDKirk]

This is a politically correct screening process designed not to "offend" anyone by "accusing them" of having Ebola!

Not so much politically correct, IMO, as business-saving. I doubt the airlines have wanted any more than that.

TSA seems to have no problem calling out people for body scans, so it can't be merely political correctness.

 

[Joykins]

Pfft! If what you say were true,t he question wouldn't be about a flu shot, it would be "Do you have any flu-like symptoms?"

This is a politically correct screening process designed not to "offend" anyone by "accusing them" of having Ebola!

It seems to me an attempt to find the correct diagnosis and treatment for a patient, since US health care providers are going to consistently see a lot of flu and may never see an Ebola case.

 

[keith99]

There is a very old joke combining classic Christian images and doctors.

A man is waiting in line at the Pearly Gates and has finally made it to the from to the line. But before he can talk to St. Peter the man comes forcing his way through while yelling 'let me through I'm a doctor'.

When he is gone the man turns to St. Peter and says 'Who does he think he is Jesus Christ'.

Peter replies 'Shhh, he IS Jesus Christ, he just thinks he is a doctor'.

This joke is widely told by doctors. Why? Because there are far too many for whom it is close to the truth.

As I mentioned, he had just completed an arduous overseas mission. A period of malaise was absolutely to be expected. He hadn't been feeling "badly," he'd been feeling "off"--again, totally to be expected. I've felt that way myself in the first days after returning from temporary duty in Third World countries.

I'd guess there was also a bit of doctor-ish arrogance, too, with an attitude of "I'm perfect in all I do--I did not make any mistakes, so this is something else."

Here is a story that might apply: A few years ago, John Hopkins did a study to find a way to reduce deaths from in-hospital infections. They tried a policy of having a nurse for each surgery whose sole job was monitoring the surgical team for flaws or "breaks" in their routine--and the nurse had the power to stop a doctor in his tracks and tell the doctor he'd broken protocol. The test had amazing results--infections cut by over half. But it was also soundly detested and rejected by the doctors, not only at John Hopkins but everywhere else.

 

[bhsmte]

There is a very old joke combining classic Christian images and doctors.

A man is waiting in line at the Pearly Gates and has finally made it to the from to the line. But before he can talk to St. Peter the man comes forcing his way through while yelling 'let me through I'm a doctor'.

When he is gone the man turns to St. Peter and says 'Who does he think he is Jesus Christ'.

Peter replies 'Shhh, he IS Jesus Christ, he just thinks he is a doctor'.

This joke is widely told by doctors. Why? Because there are far too many for whom it is close to the truth.

Being in healthcare for over 20 years, my experience would say, there is much truth to this, especially when dealing with doctors who are specialists. The primary care docs, tend to be much less arrogant.

 

[keith99]

Pfft! If what you say were true,t he question wouldn't be about a flu shot, it would be "Do you have any flu-like symptoms?"

This is a politically correct screening process designed not to "offend" anyone by "accusing them" of having Ebola!

Have you missed the 2 (or perhaps more) posters who have pointed out that this is a set of screening questions for a hospital?

They don't ask about flu like symptoms because that is what the already know. That is what the patient came in for. Flu shot decreases the chance it is the flu, that increases the chance it is something else.

 

[keith99]

Being in healthcare for over 20 years, my experience would say, there is much truth to this, especially when dealing with doctors who are specialists. The primary care docs, tend to be much less arrogant.

Thanks for the fine tuning.

 

[ThisBrotherOfHis]

Have you missed the 2 (or perhaps more) posters who have pointed out that this is a set of screening questions for a hospital?

We aren't talking about hospitals -- or at least, I wasn't. I'm talking about screenings of international passengers coming into the U.S.And actually, I posted those myself a few days ago -- and pointed out how inadequate they are, seemingly avoiding the direct questions necessary and instead engaging in a hyperbolic politically correct exercise.

They don't ask about flu like symptoms because that is what the already know. That is what the patient came in for. Flu shot decreases the chance it is the flu, that increases the chance it is something else.

Flu shots have nothing to do with Ebola, and asking if the incoming passenger has had his/her flu shot is just plain stupid and pointless. But feel free to pontificate further for those of us poor stupid peasants who don't know any better.

 

[Queller]

When I wrote the short story that started this thread, many said, "Oh, health professionals will recognize Ebola. It won't get out of control." Or they said, "The CDC is in control. They won't let things get out of hand."

This morning, we have this:So my question to you is this: If a doctor who was on the front lines fighting Ebola in West Africa is this clueless, what makes you think anyone else knows what the hell they're doing?

Since there is no evidence that anyone in the story is "clueless" I don't see your point. As RDKirk already mentioned, as soon as the doctor in question had potential symptoms, he got tested.

 

[GarfieldJL]

Since there is no evidence that anyone in the story is "clueless" I don't see your point. As RDKirk already mentioned, as soon as the doctor in question had potential symptoms, he got tested.

What you are saying and what RDKirk mentioned is not accurate, you see fatigue is also a symptom of Ebola...