i was fortunate to grow up in a christian home..church every sunday...accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and Saviour..that kind of thing. It was not until recently that all that meant something to me. when me and my brother and sister were little(5 or 6 years old) we all asked Jesus for forgiveness and for Him to come into our lives. Now we are older(20s) and I know what it means to have that personal relationship...but i dont think my brother does. he stopped going to church and as far as i know doesnt read his Bible or have that relationship with Jesus as we are commanded to have. Can anyone find a specific verse from the Bible that addresses this situation? Is my brother still saved because he said that prayer many years ago or will he not spend eternity with God because he doesnt have a personal relationship with Jesus?
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a tough question
- Thread starter lcam4god
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lcam4god said:
I can empathize with you one hundred percent. I am in the exact same situation. Here are some of my thoughts on the matter.
When we're little, we quickly understand and acknowledge that we're sinners. We realize that means we're headed to hell and dead in our trespasses and sins. And then some well meaning person says "all you have to do" is pray this prayer, and we're instantly headed down the road to works based salvation. You see, it becomes the prayer that saves us, and not Jesus. That's the problem with works. You're never quite sure if you did things right. But if Jesus is the one doing, you know he'll do it right.
Further complicating the issue is that many young Christians don't grow, and as you mentioned, don't have the relationship with God that they need to have. After twenty or so years of living with "fire-insurance" salvation, but never bearing real fruit for God, but living basically selfish lives, they start to realize that there is no fruit in their lives, and there is plenty of sin, so they wonder if they're really saved. (Me, for instance.
) So it can easily be either way.So ultimately, it depends on what your brother was trusting in when he made his profession. If he was trusting in Jesus, and was saved then, he's still saved now. If he was trusting in his prayer, then he's got issues. I will pray for your brother when I pray for mine. I pray that the Holy Spirit will work in his heart and convict him of sin, and that this will have the appropriate result. If he is saved, I pray that he will repent of his sin and turn back to his loving Father. If he is not saved, I pray that he will repent of his sin, and this time around, trust Jesus to properly execute the Father's plan of redemption. I also ask the Holy Spirit not to give up on him, not to allow him to harden his heart to the point where God stops drawing him. But ultimately, it's our brothers' choices to make.
I know you asked for verses, and this post doesn't have any. I don't think there are any specific verses, outside of the parable of the prodigal son. An observation on the parable....If the son had died in the strange country, he still would have been the son. Do you think it's a coincidence that our relationship with God is characterized as a Father/son relationship? I don't.
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£amb
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lcam4god said:
I think many people can relate with this. I too grew up in a christian home. Now in my 30's, my older sister has not attended church for a long time. She has a non-christian husband who plans things on the weekend that do not include her being able to attend church. She has made the choice to follow along. She's put God on the back-burner. I went through a period in my early 20's of not attending church for a few years. But after that time, and having a child myself, I knew that God was calling me back to Him. I pray that He will call for sister back to Him soon. You will have many people that will say yes he is still saved and others that will no he has turned from God. But here is a verse of encouragement: Proverbs 22:6 Train a child in the way he should go, and when he is old he will not turn from it.
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Sword-In-Hand
Born again to raze hell
Matthew 7:16 (New King James Version)
16 You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles?
As Christians, all we can really base our assumptions on are fruits. It is a tough question to answer regarding your brother. Is there a change evident in his life? Some sparkle that lets you know he is saved? Like novcncy said; if he was saved when he was younger, then he is still saved. If he is indeed a son of God, then He is still a son.
John 14:18 (New King James Version)
18 I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you.
Also:
Galatians 4:7 (New King James Version)
7 Therefore you are no longer a slave but a son, and if a son, then an heir of[a] God through Christ.
But let's go back to the verse in Matthew. Jesus says you will know them by their fruits. Could you outwardly look at your brother and see any sign that he is a child of the King? If not, then perhaps you should talk to him, even witness to him. I will be in prayer for your brother. I hope this helps.
16 You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles?
As Christians, all we can really base our assumptions on are fruits. It is a tough question to answer regarding your brother. Is there a change evident in his life? Some sparkle that lets you know he is saved? Like novcncy said; if he was saved when he was younger, then he is still saved. If he is indeed a son of God, then He is still a son.
John 14:18 (New King James Version)
18 I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you.
Also:
Galatians 4:7 (New King James Version)
7 Therefore you are no longer a slave but a son, and if a son, then an heir of[a] God through Christ.
But let's go back to the verse in Matthew. Jesus says you will know them by their fruits. Could you outwardly look at your brother and see any sign that he is a child of the King? If not, then perhaps you should talk to him, even witness to him. I will be in prayer for your brother. I hope this helps.
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lcam4god said:
People who believe in OSAS,like me, will say "yes" he will go to Heaven for his commitment along time ago. Talk to him, see where he is at, invite him to church
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If he was really saved as Child, or saved at ANY age, he is still saved.
Hebrews 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.
This clearly means 1 of 2 things.
1. If you lose your salvation you cannot regain it, OR
2. that you cannot lose it lest you recrucify Christ and shame him by demonstrating that His act of sacrifice wasnt good enough to do the job the 1st time.
Since there is NO doubt that Christians can repent of their sins and regain Gods favour ( I didnt say salvation, God can be angry at us without taking our salvation away), then #2 is the only option. Otherwise repentance would be futile, God is not going to ask us to perfom futile acts.
Luke 17:1 Then He said to the disciples, "It is impossible that no offenses should come, but woe to him through whom they do come! 2 It would be better for him if a millstone were hung around his neck, and he were thrown into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones. 3 Take heed to yourselves. If your brother sins against you, F113 rebuke him; and if he repents, forgive him. 4 And if he sins against you seven times in a day, and seven times in a day returns to you, F114 saying, 'I repent,' you shall forgive him."
Finally, I can personally relate to not bearing fruit for a while. I was saved at a young age but then as a teen and young adult basically walked away from God. I can tell you that all the time I know that I was different than other people. I knew it from the inside out. Spiritual convicition is a powerful tool and God uses it a LOT. I for one am glad for it, I cant imagine feeling the "tug" of God at my heart when I have those times when I am not as close to him. One thing I can tell you is that he always draws me back. Typically what I have experienced is that God will ramp up the pressure on me until I submit. Then I repent and grow. The older I get and the more spiritually mature I get this has happened less and I dont get as far away.
Hebrews 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.
This clearly means 1 of 2 things.
1. If you lose your salvation you cannot regain it, OR
2. that you cannot lose it lest you recrucify Christ and shame him by demonstrating that His act of sacrifice wasnt good enough to do the job the 1st time.
Since there is NO doubt that Christians can repent of their sins and regain Gods favour ( I didnt say salvation, God can be angry at us without taking our salvation away), then #2 is the only option. Otherwise repentance would be futile, God is not going to ask us to perfom futile acts.
Luke 17:1 Then He said to the disciples, "It is impossible that no offenses should come, but woe to him through whom they do come! 2 It would be better for him if a millstone were hung around his neck, and he were thrown into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones. 3 Take heed to yourselves. If your brother sins against you, F113 rebuke him; and if he repents, forgive him. 4 And if he sins against you seven times in a day, and seven times in a day returns to you, F114 saying, 'I repent,' you shall forgive him."
Finally, I can personally relate to not bearing fruit for a while. I was saved at a young age but then as a teen and young adult basically walked away from God. I can tell you that all the time I know that I was different than other people. I knew it from the inside out. Spiritual convicition is a powerful tool and God uses it a LOT. I for one am glad for it, I cant imagine feeling the "tug" of God at my heart when I have those times when I am not as close to him. One thing I can tell you is that he always draws me back. Typically what I have experienced is that God will ramp up the pressure on me until I submit. Then I repent and grow. The older I get and the more spiritually mature I get this has happened less and I dont get as far away.
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bethdinsmore
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If your brother ever made the decision to trust in Christ alone to be his sinbearer and to get him to Heaven one day without depending on any promises or good works of his own, he was saved at the moment he made that decision.
Eternal life is exactly that - we cannot lose our salvation no matter what we do or don't do, or how we feel:
Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. (NIV)
Rom 11:29 for God's gifts and his call are irrevocable. (NIV)
John 10:28 I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand. (NIV) (we can't even snatch ourselves out of His hand)
I Jn 5:13
13 I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life.
(NIV)
If he has questions as to how to be saved, he might like to see "How to be saved" in my website listed on my profile page. It includes an invitation.
I'll pray for him. Aloha in Jesus
Eternal life is exactly that - we cannot lose our salvation no matter what we do or don't do, or how we feel:
Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. (NIV)
Rom 11:29 for God's gifts and his call are irrevocable. (NIV)
John 10:28 I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand. (NIV) (we can't even snatch ourselves out of His hand)
I Jn 5:13
13 I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life.
(NIV)
If he has questions as to how to be saved, he might like to see "How to be saved" in my website listed on my profile page. It includes an invitation.
I'll pray for him. Aloha in Jesus
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Smidlee
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The parible of the sower in mark chapter 4 come to mind of the difference ground which seed fall on.lcam4god said:
The simply answer no. Someone is not saved just because they said some prayer when they was young. Many in my church including my pastor said a prayer when they were a child and wasn't saved but truely ask Christ as their saviour later in life. In fact my pastor went back to the church to preach where he went when he was a youth. The church pastor told the church this preacher was saved in this church but my pastor has to correct that by saying he didn't that he got truely saved years later. You can say a prayer ,preach , and even do miracles just like Judas and still be lost. So the only person I can 100% know for sure is saved is me and only me. Every one of us is responsible to make sure our calling and election sure; 2Peter 1:10. (only God knows what's truely in the heart of man.)
As a child it easy to live off our parents beliefs ,faith and convictions yet now both you and your brother is old enough you have to stand on your own two feet before God. Thus OMHO you both has reach the age of countability. Of course a child can get saved at an early age for I'm was at the age of 12. My son accepted the Lord at age 5. I was surprised he ask to be saved since I was careful not to have him accept Christ because I desire it. Now that he is a teenager his faith will now be put to the test as he is slowly becoming a man.
Only time will tell as it's easy for a teen to walk away from the thing of God and be tempted with the thing of this world. Just keep him in your prayers and continue strenghten your own faith for the trials ahead of you.
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Jimmy West
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lcam4god said:
There is only one thing required for salvation; Accepting Jesus as your Lord and Savior. I don't believe I know any scripture that commands us to have a relationship with Jesus.
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