A Theological Question

El Guapo said:

Tell me though, have you literally cut off your hand when it led you into sin (Matt 5:30)?

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No, but it might teach you a lesson.

Do you believe a fire breathing Leviathan actually existed (Job 41)?

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Yep.

Do you believe the Earth is set upon pillars (Job 9:6)?

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Now this one may require something thinking and maybe some 'interpreting'.

What holds a building (back then at least) up? Pillars, right? So when God said He "its pillars tremble;", maybe He means what ever holds the earth up trembles. Could be the rock layers or whatever. It's not as straightforward but it does make sense, no?

Do you make sure all females that pray around you have their heads covered so as not to be disgraced (1 Cor 11:6)?

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I think that was a cultural thing. Not sure though...I'll get back on that one.

mhess13 said:

- It all comes down to what you put your faith in- God's word or man's textbooks

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Absolutely!

theFijian said:

God's word is all around you, his handiwork is in the rocks that show us the earth is old.

Andy

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God's word is on my shelf, it says that the earth is young.

How did you determine that the rock show us the earth is old (and no dating stuff...I've already said before how unreliable it is).

herev said:

So many people feel the need to defend God or His word as if He needs our help! God is big enough to stand a little scrutiny of his word, just as you have demonstrated by expressing with wisdom that Jesus does not really want us to cut off our hand. It's ok to think its not all literal, really
God bless again!
Tommy

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I'm not at all worried about God. He can zap whoever He wants. I'm following His word by proclaiming the truth. That's my job as a Christian, the rest He'll take care of.

Underdog77 said:

God's word is on my shelf, it says that the earth is young.

How did you determine that the rock show us the earth is old (and no dating stuff...I've already said before how unreliable it is).

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The Scriptures can at best date Adam in Genesis 2.
There is no connection between the Adam in Gen2 to the adam in Gen1.
The creation has no date in the Bible.

If you discard geology, then try tree rings and ice core layers.

Underdog77 - why bother then.

You can say how unreliable but thats all you have on the subject - talk. Your problem is that you have swallowed the outright lies some Creationists spouted 25 years ago and have perpetuated in the Creationist community either through wishful thinking or blatant deceit.

And since the vast majority of Creationists are scientifically uneducated this myth is maintained.

It is 100% flat out not true. You can find discourses on dating at levels from introductory through to graduate level on the web. Some of these are authored by Christians woh work as geologists and physicists.

What axe have they to grind upon this issue?

Quit swallowing the bs that some fools 30 years ago dreamt up to cast doubt upon the results their faith could not handle.

All that nonsense that geologists fix the results or throw out discordant dates etc etc is pure, unadulterated bs.

The real problem I have about this is that some of the so called Christians putting this nonsense forward are lying. Some of this is due to ignorance but some really is put forward by liars whose money train dries up without a gullible audience to swallow the lies.

Chi_Cygni said:

Underdog77 - why bother then.

You can say how unreliable but thats all you have on the subject - talk. Your problem is that you have swallowed the outright lies some Creationists spouted 25 years ago and have perpetuated in the Creationist community either through wishful thinking or blatant deceit.

And since the vast majority of Creationists are scientifically uneducated this myth is maintained.

It is 100% flat out not true. You can find discourses on dating at levels from introductory through to graduate level on the web. Some of these are authored by Christians woh work as geologists and physicists.

What axe have they to grind upon this issue?

Quit swallowing the bs that some fools 30 years ago dreamt up to cast doubt upon the results their faith could not handle.

All that nonsense that geologists fix the results or throw out discordant dates etc etc is pure, unadulterated bs.

The real problem I have about this is that some of the so called Christians putting this nonsense forward are lying. Some of this is due to ignorance but some really is put forward by liars whose money train dries up without a gullible audience to swallow the lies.

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i would add that the problem of dating standards has occurred in C14.
Scientists recognized that there was a problem, figured out why, and now publish C14 corrected values.

Underdog77 said:

I'm not at all worried about God. He can zap whoever He wants. I'm following His word by proclaiming the truth. That's my job as a Christian, the rest He'll take care of.

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I commend you for your ferver , however, a couple of thoughts come to mind.
The comment about "teaching you a lesson" in response to cutting off the arm that offends was not really worthy of the maturity level of an obviously intelligent, Christian 17 year-old. I've read your posts before, and you can do better . But that's not the point of this post

As to proclaiming the truth, again, go for it!!! However, just food for thought here, can we proclaim the truth that is found in the Bible without agreeing that it is factual?

For instance, In Psalms, when the psalmist asks God to take him "under his wings" for protection and comfort, do we proclaim as the truth, that "God, though we were made in his image, has wings to wrap around us?" Or, do we proclaim as the truth that "God can comfort us as if he were completely enfolding us in his embrace?"

In the quote above about cutting off the hand, do we proclaim the truth that "Jesus says if something is causing you to sin, it would be better to do without, say for example if you were to be partying with your friends, drinking, and found yourself sinning, Jesus says, it would be better to do without the alcohol since it leads you to do things you shuldn't?"
Or, do we proclaim the truth by demanding that "anyone who gets drunk (or gambles, or smokes, or whatever) with his right hand should get out the axe?"

To proclaim the Truth sometimes means to say, "I don't know this as an absolute fact, but I believe ..."

And sometimes it means that someone can actually look at the creation accounts in the bible and see the discrepencies between the two, the discrepency between them and scientific findings--and can then proclaim the truth: "that God created the world and every living creature in it. And he created everything to be very good. He created man and woman to be together, and he created man as dominant in the world of creatures, which gives us not only priviledge, but responsiblity"
or must we ignore the discrepencies or pretend they don't exist and proclaim, "The Bible says God created in six days, therefore this is the truth?"

Proclaiming God's truth is a mighty task and I pray you many years of success! But without an open mind to learn and grow, and without a countenance that says, "I am always open to learn more about God," then it may be a tough go for you.
God Bless, keep up the good fight!
Rev. Tommy Conder