A swift refutation of a particular argument for religious pluralism

[The Cadet]

For example, If I say "Jesus is God incarnate", that statement is not rendered false just because atheists, Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, and Jews say otherwise.

No, buuuuut if you were to say, "Jesus is God incarnate and everyone knows it (see Romans 1:20)", then the existence of other viewpoints would in fact pose quite a problem for your belief system.

 

[anonymous person]

No, buuuuut if you were to say, "Jesus is God incarnate and everyone knows it (see Romans 1:20)", then the existence of other viewpoints would in fact pose quite a problem for your belief system.

I wouldn't say that everyone knows Jesus is God incarnate.

I would say that which may be known of God is manifest in every person; for God has showed it to them.

For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse.

 

[Davian]

I wouldn't say that everyone knows Jesus is God incarnate.

I would say that which may be known of God is manifest in every person; for God has showed it to them.

Saying it does not make it true.

For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse.

Invisible things that are clearly seen? Is that an attempt at humour?

 

[The Cadet]

For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen

Right, and the fact that atheists exist demolishes this idea.

 

[anonymous person]

Right, and the fact that atheists exist demolishes this idea.

I will address this argument in a new thread.

 

[Davian]

Right, and the fact that atheists exist demolishes this idea.

Not if the individual posting that Bible snippet believes that the atheist is lying about not believing in his particular version of "God".

Which then follows that the same individual must believe that everyone that disagrees with his particular theology - of which I don't even have most of the details on - must also be lying. Every Muslim, Hindu, Jew, Buddhist, etc. are lying about not clearly seeing these invisible things.

What a bizarre worldview to have.

 

[anonymous person]

Not if the individual posting that Bible snippet believes that the atheist is lying about not believing in his particular version of "God".

Which then follows that the same individual must believe that everyone that disagrees with his particular theology - of which I don't even have most of the details on - must also be lying. Every Muslim, Hindu, Jew, Buddhist, etc. are lying about not clearly seeing these invisible things.

What a bizarre worldview to have.

If God gives the unrighteous over to their desire to no longer acknowledge Him, then said people, in having been given over to the desires of their heart, may come to a point where they can say "God does not exist" without lying. In fact Paul later on in the same chapter implies this.

So you are wrong Davian, I do not think that someone is necessarily a liar if they deny the existence of God.

 

[Archaeopteryx]

I wouldn't say that everyone knows Jesus is God incarnate.

I would say that which may be known of God is manifest in every person; for God has showed it to them.

For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse.

The Quran says something similar (verses 2:109 and 7:172).

 

[Davian]

If God gives the unrighteous

By that, you mean "unbelievers"

over to their desire to no longer acknowledge Him,

"Desire" implies intent. Do you still think belief is a conscious choice?

then said people, in having been given over to the desires of their heart,

Or their brain, given the dearth of evidence for the existence of gods, and how they require the tossing of virtually all of mainstream scientific knowledge. YMMV.

may come to a point where they can say "God does not exist" without lying. In fact Paul later on in the same chapter implies this.

Strangely omitted from your quote.

So you are wrong Davian, I do not think that someone is necessarily a liar if they deny the existence of God.

Then the Bible is wrong about these invisible things being clearly seen and everyone being without excuse.

Okay.

 

[anonymous person]

Then the Bible is wrong about these invisible things being clearly seen and everyone being without excuse.

Okay.

Non-sequitur.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Non-sequitur.

What kind of non sequitur do you think that is? Affirming the consequent?

Cuz I'm not seeing it.

 

[Davian]

Non-sequitur.

How so? Does not your Bible quote say "they are without excuse"? Do you believe that to be true or not?