A supernatural high?

[Yitzchak]

Those who have seen my posts on here will know that I am Pentecostal / Charismatic. I am not one to attack Charismatic ministries.

In this thread , I would like to discuss this idea that is growing within the Charismatic movement that people should get high in the spirit. The idea is that people can be on a supernatural drug high.

I say that this is a new thing that was not a part of the original Charismatic movement and that it is not a good thing.


Disclaimer. I posted this link to a video which I believe contains a supernatural element which is not from God. I advise to pray for discernment before watching it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mNGPA6Idopg&feature=related



I have attached a poll with this thread.

 

[Simon_Templar]

lol...

I literally could only watch a little over a minute of this video before they guy became simply too annoying to stand.

First let me say this, I believe mysticism is a valid, even necessary aspect of Christianity. I have also personally experienced times that I might call a spiritual 'high' when I was spending a lot of time in prayer and meditation.

However, in all true Christian mysticism the central focus is ALWAYS on simply knowing and loving God himself. It is NEVER on having experiences.
I don't think I am in too much danger of error when I say that any 'mysticism' that puts its focus on feelings or on experiences like this is in error at best and is dangerous.

In the very early portion of the video the man says that his favorite part of Jesus is his 'weighty, drunken, glory'. What he is describing there is his own feeling, his own experience, not God nor Christ himself.

This is about like a husband telling his wife that his favorite thing about here is the excitement he feels when they kiss.

There is nothing in wrong with feeling that excitement, but if that is your emphasis, if that is the focus of your relationship, then you have serious problems.

Now, earlier I mentioned my own experiences of a 'spiritual high'. I want to clarify what I experienced. I've never experienced anything like the drunkeness or the impaired, intoxicated type of thing this guy is exhibiting or talking about.

What I experienced ranged from feelings of joy to elated adoration, usually a very deep sense of peace and so on. I never experienced anything that impaired my mind or motor function etc.. if anything when I did have those experiences I felt like my spiritual senses and my mind were sharper and my understanding deepened, etc.

Far from feeling drunk or intoxicated, it was more like opening your eyes, and seeing everything more clearly.


PS...

I've been forcing myself to sit through the rest of the video and I wanted to add the comment that while I don't think the speaker is of God at all... I also don't think the guy who made the video and added the written comments is right about everything either.

 

[Faulty]

I've seen this guy do graveyard visits to the graves of dead preachers in order to pass along the 'annointings' from the dead people to the viewers.

No thanks.

 

[LinkH]

My brother used to go to church with this guy. My parents say we went to a Chinese restaurant with him after church. I raised the issue of fortune cookies being divination. Crowder said he just read them for the lottery numbers. I vaguely remember the incident. I haven't read his book.

They are into 'redeeming the drug culture.' I believe people who are in the drug culture need to be redeemed out of the drug culture. There was a video of him and another guy pretending to be stoned and saying they were 'tokin the ....' I don't even want to repeat it. We should be very careful what we say about the Spirit.

 

[HIM_In_Me_In_HIM]

.....one of which is "extremism".

u can take something good and pollute it very easily when
u are talking spiritual vs the physical realm.

i believe there is such a thing as "holy laughter" coming as a
healing ministry from H>S> but, methinks too many are faking
it so as to not be "left out" of "the latest thang" in church
circles etc.

best we all pray for discernment. not judgement mind u, but
discernment, so that we can stay free from error or being led
astray.

shalom.

 

[Yitzchak]

I believe that God can do unusual things. I have seen the joy of The Lord come upon someone and they laugh. But the focus is upon The Lord and not upon having a " drunken " party.

At the day of Pentecost , people thought they were drunk. But it does not read that the hundred and twenty spent their ten days seeking the Lord by pretending to get high on Jesus. They were sober minded , seeking God in prayer. After the Holy Spirit filled them , Peter preached a sermon and 3000 got saved. again , it does not say that they rolled around on the ground taking another hit and then saying they were high on Jesus.

There is no way to stretch the Bible accounts enough to honestly say that there is anything in the Bible to support this kind of stuff. The most that someone can say is that after seeking God in a biblical manner , sometimes people were overcome by the Holy Spirit and manifested in unexpected ways.

I think that things like this video portray drive home the point that we should seek God and not seek the manifestations.

If we seek God and manifestations come , then leadership should step in to instruct people on how to behave in a biblical manner.

One of the things I strongly disagree with is that in these videos , they are seeking an experience / manifestation that is quite extreme instead of seeking God. The true Gospel involves a sober minded decision to place faith in Jesus.

Anyway , thank God that we live in a free country here in Canada where we have the freedom of religion to decide for our self about these things.

 

[talitha]

I don't feel comfortable with Crowder's behavior on the whole in the video, but I don't feel comfortable with what I see as a legalistic analysis of it either. I would see both as extremist.

 

[BenAdam]

I think the question would have been better served with a raw video vs a editorialized one.

Having however watched a raw video of this clown (and that is what he is) I think he is WAY out of line. We have exchanged time tested scriptural training for nebulous drunken feelings.

 

[Tobias]

Those who have seen my posts on here will know that I am Pentecostal / Charismatic. I am not one to attack Charismatic ministries.

In this thread , I would like to discuss this idea that is growing within the Charismatic movement that people should get high in the spirit. The idea is that people can be on a supernatural drug high.

I say that this is a new thing that was not a part of the original Charismatic movement and that it is not a good thing.


Disclaimer. I posted this link to a video which I believe contains a supernatural element which is not from God. I advise to pray for discernment before watching it.

‪MYSTIC JOHN CROWDER Exposed - Part 1 of 2‬‏ - YouTube



I have attached a poll with this thread.

So, having read through this thread before getting to the video, I chose to listen to it only, and forgo reading the negative commentary completely. I know I don't multitask well, so I can't imagine how anybody else could focus on both what John said as well as read all the writing over top.


You all remember that I claim to be a mystic myself; and therefore am quite used to sensing other spirits and am not really too concerned about them. So when John started talking about the "Friar Tuck Angels", I'm pretty certain I could start to feel their presence. So my big question then turned to, are they of God or not?

I know I've seen many ministers travel around through the Body that specialized on teaching certain things. Prophets invaded the Church a couple decades ago, and every meeting was spent watching prophets at work, teaching on the subject, and you name it. We also have seen this same thing happen with other "revelations" that God sends through the Body; which might include some useful stuff in the Health, Wealth, and Prosperity Gospel.

The problem is when we go overboard. We forget the basics, and want to spend every moment playing with the new toys. This makes the foundations for new believers very unbalanced. There is much virtue in the foundations of the Faith that have been established throughout the ages by our predecessors.

John talked about bi-location, which is something that is not unreasonable. There are many spiritual (mystical) experiences that we have forgotten about in the Church. What I found redeemable about the whole message (or portion of a message, as this is only part of a sermon), was at the very end where he said that he would give up all these other spiritual experiences in favor of the Holy Spirit. And I think that is the key to everything.

He did not use those exact words however. It was more like he wants to get drunk on the H.S., or something like that. So if his heart's desire is for God, then we're good; but if it is only for the drunk feeling that comes from God, then we have serious problems.

Right now though I'm pretty certain I felt the presence of God come though his teaching. And usually when that happens, I'm willing to stand behind the preacher; considering if the guy is good enough for God to send His anointing through him then he's good enough for me.

 

[Simon_Templar]

The 1st rule of mysticism (by which I mean valid Christian mysticism) is don't go seeking feelings and spiritual experiences.

The 2nd rule of mysticism is never let feeling or experience over-ride objective, revealed, truth.

'feeling' is probably the most deceptive thing upon which any person can rely for guidance.

 

[zaksmummy]

It looks like that Kunderlini Spirit if you ask me.

 

[Tobias]

lol...

I literally could only watch a little over a minute of this video before they guy became simply too annoying to stand.

First let me say this, I believe mysticism is a valid, even necessary aspect of Christianity. I have also personally experienced times that I might call a spiritual 'high' when I was spending a lot of time in prayer and meditation.

However, in all true Christian mysticism the central focus is ALWAYS on simply knowing and loving God himself. It is NEVER on having experiences.
I don't think I am in too much danger of error when I say that any 'mysticism' that puts its focus on feelings or on experiences like this is in error at best and is dangerous.

In the very early portion of the video the man says that his favorite part of Jesus is his 'weighty, drunken, glory'. What he is describing there is his own feeling, his own experience, not God nor Christ himself.

This is about like a husband telling his wife that his favorite thing about here is the excitement he feels when they kiss.

There is nothing in wrong with feeling that excitement, but if that is your emphasis, if that is the focus of your relationship, then you have serious problems.

Now, earlier I mentioned my own experiences of a 'spiritual high'. I want to clarify what I experienced. I've never experienced anything like the drunkeness or the impaired, intoxicated type of thing this guy is exhibiting or talking about.

What I experienced ranged from feelings of joy to elated adoration, usually a very deep sense of peace and so on. I never experienced anything that impaired my mind or motor function etc.. if anything when I did have those experiences I felt like my spiritual senses and my mind were sharper and my understanding deepened, etc.

Far from feeling drunk or intoxicated, it was more like opening your eyes, and seeing everything more clearly.


PS...

I've been forcing myself to sit through the rest of the video and I wanted to add the comment that while I don't think the speaker is of God at all... I also don't think the guy who made the video and added the written comments is right about everything either.

Just wanted to mention, I thought this was a very good post!

 

[Vimi]

This is strange to me because I have not experienced this type of behavior in the charismatic churches I have visited. I know it exists but there are churches that focus on all kinds of stuff.

We just need to be led by the Holy Spirit, apply 1 John 4:1 and then continue to be led by the Holy Spirit.

 

[HIM_In_Me_In_HIM]

OR, if u prefer...........in NYC slang, ala yoggi berra-ish like:

He who falls for nuttins', stands for anytings'. However u like it
to be/read.

thank you simontemplar for clarifying for me my view on so
called "mystics". There's God's variety, satans variety but i dont
think the two like to coexist, do u? selah.

i too sometimes windup on a fence trying to figure out or wait
upon the Lord to show me which way to "go" on something/any
thing. Yet i know better than to stay on that "fence" for very
long because they (the middle dwellers) are the 1st casualties
in any battle between Good & evil; Right vs wrong.

IF the guy is taken out of context in any way then oops, we've
been duped again by an agenda oriented editor type of deceiver. but even if so, the fellow did a poor job of differentiating btwn fact & fiction/truth vs a lie/etc., for all
to see/understand as he seemed to revel in his acting/showmanship on stage a bit too much for H>S> credit
to be given here.

other good/great pts were made by others too. if manifestations come from seeking/obtaining a personal up
close encounter with God at church (tho' most often, its in
private, no?) then amen. But if it becomes a "follow the leader"
trump-fest, then count me out of it. specially where no scripture, no truth, no edification, no salvation(s) are happening
or being witnessed. What are the follow up "fruits" of it all, say
next week, next mth, next.....? Are u the same person u were b4? If so, not of God i'd say as H>S> power & love would continue to blossom u into greater levels of maturity, be it
seen thru faith &/or works.

Obviously u dont have to agree with me.

Just dont ask me to pick you up from the floor.

shalom.

 

[K2K]

The 1st rule of mysticism (by which I mean valid Christian mysticism) is don't go seeking feelings and spiritual experiences.

The 2nd rule of mysticism is never let feeling or experience over-ride objective, revealed, truth.

'feeling' is probably the most deceptive thing upon which any person can rely for guidance.

I agree with all the "rules" that Simon Templar mentions, and I can't say for certain which side this man is being influenced by. Still I heard the Lord ask me to post on this thread, and I checked the Spirit using the test in 1 JN 4:1-3.

Jesus Christ, the Word that took on flesh, is the truth. We can hear from Him, and that is truly the one thing necessary. (rule 2) Still He sends the Spirit, which and sometimes given me joy. Even a supernatural joy and happiness. And that joy has come in numerous ways. Every thing from being happy, feeling victorious, to laughing, and even being drunk in the Spirit.

He once had me run a 24 hour prayer session at the church I attended. Different people came in each hour, and different things happened each hour. There were sober times, peacful times, happy times, celebration times, an hour in which a single person prayed in tongues for the whole hour, there was a time when the five people praying all feel down, times of singing, and a time when when those praying just seemed to get drunk. I was sitting in out most of that hour, but when I went to given one of them a one handed hug befor she left, the whole right side of my body instantly became numb. It was incredible.

Concerning talking about angels: it is true that we are seeking Jesus Christ and His voice, but He said He was the door. The door to what? We preach Jesus first because He is the door to the Kingdom of God! We don't just preach the King, but the King first and then the Kingdom.

Are not all angels ministering angels? Then what have you heard them minister to you? If someone says nothing, is it because they are stuck at the door? There are two spiritual sides, but if we are talking about discernment of spirits, can you discern between them if you are not listening enough with your spiritual ears to even hear them.

In Hebrews the end of chapter five, the hebrews were reproved for their hearing becoming dull. Though they should have been teachers because of the training in the Scirptures, they were not qualified to preach because they did not practice hearing with their spiritual ears. They couldn't discern good from evil.

Noah, the one man God found worthy during his time, got drunk and when one of his sons uncovered him, the son was reproved.

Gen 9:24 When Noah awoke from his wine, he knew what his youngest son had done to him. So he said, Cursed be Canaan; A servant of servants he shall be to his brothers.

This is what the Lord wanted me to write. Becareful when exposing someones nakedness.

 

[Simon_Templar]

I should add the clarification that I don't think feeling is bad. Feeling is a part of who we are and who we are created to be.

my point is that feeling is a dangerous and uncertain guide. Thus it needs to be guarded by correct doctrine.

 

[Yitzchak]

I think the question would have been better served with a raw video vs a editorialized one.

Having however watched a raw video of this clown (and that is what he is) I think he is WAY out of line. We have exchanged time tested scriptural training for nebulous drunken feelings.

Feel free to add a raw video. I don't mind.

 

[BenAdam]

Feel free to add a raw video. I don't mind.

It was on his website, no idea how to imbed it here.

 

[Yitzchak]

It was on his website, no idea how to imbed it here.

That is the same problem that I had. I could not find many other options than the one I posted and I did not have the patience to spend more time looking for one and figuring out how to post it ehre.

 

[LogosRhema]

I live in this reality, tho it was not John who led me here. Instead of going by looks, since you guys do not know Him.

I would be happy to answer any questions about the drunken glory "doctrine".

Blissings

PS- everytime I hear someone say kudalini spirit, I can't help but laugh. People and there imaginations in attempting justifying the "truth" of their own beliefs over another. I will have no part in that. Regardless of what "level" one may be at, Christ is still central so it is not for me to justify myself over another.