A special message for those of you expecting to go to heaven

[John Zain]

Why did you quote only part of this verse?
In its entirety, the verse plainly teaches that Christ's work actually results in
the church not having spot or wrinkle or blemish, but being holy.

Sure, but you have to be able to see past your nose.
I've told you ... some deeper spiritual truths are nicely hidden.
Do you believe some spiritual truths are revealed to BACs, but not to others?

Who is in the Church?
You including yourself?
You including your tare buddies?
You including your foolish virgins?
You including your fruitless buddies?

You don't know who's in that Church.
And you have no idea who the elect are.

IMO, Paul is only writing to "the saints who are faithful" @ Ephesus.
All of those platitudes and promises are only to the faithful saints.
And now we have to decide what "faithful" really entails.
Everyone has a different take on that, right?
.

 

[Skala]

Sure, but you have to be able to see past your nose.
I've told you ... some deeper spiritual truths are nicely hidden.

Who is in the Church?
You including yourself?
You including your tare biddies?
You including your foolish virgins?
You including your fruitless buddies?

You don't know who's in that Church.
And you have no idea who the elect are.
Paul is only writing to "the saints who are faithful" @ Ephesus.
All of those platitudes and promises are only to the faithful saints.
.

1) Paul plainly teaches that the elect will persevere in faith until the end.
2) Are you proposing that some of the elect can somehow lose their "elect status" during this temporal life and end up in hell?

Wouldn't that make them..non-elect, and would't that mean they were non-elect from the beginning anyways?

Since election happened in eternity past, a person is born either elect or non-elect.

 

[Hammster]

1) Paul plainly teaches that the elect will persevere in faith until the end.
2) Are you proposing that some of the elect can somehow lose their "elect status" during this temporal life and end up in hell?

Wouldn't that make them..non-elect, and would't that mean they were non-elect from the beginning anyways?

Since election happened in eternity past, a person is born either elect or non-elect.

Maybe someone could start a thread on this.

 

[Butch5]

1)Since election happened in eternity past, a person is born either elect or non-elect.

I be interested in seeing you make that case.

 

[Skala]

I be interested in seeing you make that case.

See Ephesians Chapter 1.

We were chosen...when? Before the foundation of the world.

Thus, every person in the human race was either chosen or not, and is born either chosen or not.

 

[John Zain]

1) Paul plainly teaches that the elect will persevere in faith until the end.
2) Are you proposing that some of the elect can somehow lose their "elect status"
during this temporal life and end up in hell?
Wouldn't that make them..non-elect, and would't that mean they were non-elect from the beginning anyways?
3) Since election happened in eternity past, a person is born either elect or non-elect.

1) sure, of course, etc. Rom 8:28-30
2) no
3) sure, of course, etc.

IMO, not all BACs are God's elect ... blasphemy, deserving of the fire, etc.
Because of all of the warnings of Paradise Lost ... I'll blame it all on John Milton.
Because of the fact that ANYONE CAN walk away, reject, refuse, take a hike, etc.
from the faith and salvation.

People, pastors, etc. swear of knowing such cases, but alas ...
Vat happens on da death-bed, that is the qvestion!
Can't count 'em out until they're out (of here).
.

 

[Skala]

1) sure, of course, etc. Rom 8:28-30
2) no
3) sure, of course, etc.

So you affirm that it is impossible for someone who is elect to not end up finally saved.

So what in the world are you going on about, then?

 

[John Zain]

So you affirm that it is impossible for someone who is elect to not end up finally saved.
So what in the world are you going on about, then?

I've explained it, but you're movin' too fast to see it ... re-read.
E.G. IMO, not all BAC are elect.
E.G. You say "we" are elect, but not all here are elect.

Walk an aisle, say a prayer, etc. ... and one is elect? <<< FAR FROM IT >>>
.

 

[Skala]

I've explained it, but you're movin' too fast to see it ... re-read.
E.G. IMO, not all BAC are elect.
E.G. You say "we" are elect, but not all here are elect.
.

What is a BAC?

Your arguments thus far imply that a truly saved person can become unsaved.
To me, this is the same as saying an elect person can become un-elect.

Or are you simply saying that a person who falls away from the faith was never saved to begin with? If so, then that's the same as saying they were never elect to begin with

 

[John Zain]

What is a BAC?
Your arguments thus far imply that a truly saved person can become unsaved.
To me, this is the same as saying an elect person can become un-elect.
Or are you simply saying that a person who falls away from the faith was never saved to begin with?
If so, then that's the same as saying they were never elect to begin with

BAC = Born Again Christian ... This is present-day Christian code language.

Like John used in 1 John 4:1-3 ... Can you tell me what code language he used there?
Dis is a test ... before we move on ... Dis will allow me to take a deep breath.
.

 

[Skala]

So if born again, holy-spirit filled actual Christians aren't the elect, who is?

 

[Butch5]

See Ephesians Chapter 1.

We were chosen...when? Before the foundation of the world.

Thus, every person in the human race was either chosen or not, and is born either chosen or not.

We've been over this passage. There is no way you can grammatically make that the Gentiles. The context simply won't allow it. The passage, contextually, is speaking of the Jews. Besides, that passage says they were chosen to be holy and blameless, not saved.

 

[Skala]

We've been over this passage. There is no way you can grammatically make that the Gentiles. The context simply won't allow it. The passage, contextually, is speaking of the Jews. Besides, that passage says they were chosen to be holy and blameless, not saved.

Paul was the apostle to the Gentiles.

Being seen as holy and blameless before God is the same as being saved.

 

[drstevej]

Besides, that passage says they were chosen to be holy and blameless, not saved.

So there are holy and blameless folk in Hell?

 

[Butch5]

Paul was the apostle to the Gentiles.

Yes, he was and whenever he went into a new city the first place he preached was the Synagogue.

Being seen as holy and blameless before God is the same as being saved.

The passage says they were chosen to be holy and blameless, not that they were holy and blameless.

 

[Butch5]

So there are holy and blameless folk in Hell?

The passages says they were chosen to be holy and blameless, it doesn't say they were. I'm sure you wouldn't argue that all Jews are saved.

 

[John Zain]

The passage says they were chosen to be holy and blameless, not that they were holy and blameless.

Butch5 has seen the light ... I don't know for how long he has seen it, but he has done seen it.
Many passages have this tricky little twist to them.
One has to be able to read and understand English words, and their intended meaning.
Right, Butch? Right.
.

 

[Apologetic_Warrior]

Fortunately, I'm found in Christ. He's holy and perfect. His righteousness is imputed to me.

"B lessed are those whose lawless deeds have been forgiven, A nd whose sins have been covered. "B lessed is the man whose sin the Lord will not take into account." (Romans 4:7, 8 NASB)

See above.

 

[Skala]

Butch5 has seen the light ... I don't know for how long he has seen it, but he has done seen it.
Many passages have this tricky little twist to them.
One has to be able to read and understand English words, and their intended meaning.
Right, Butch? Right.
.

Actually both you and butch are wrong.

The passage is clearly saying that God chose us to effectually bring about the end result that we will be holy and blameless.

That's why Paul springboards into a bunch of stuff God does out of grace, like predestining us for adoption (v5) blessing us with grace in Christ (v6) (ie, the Beloved), redeeming us (v7), forgiving our sins (v7), giving us an inheritance (v11)

The whole slew of activity on God's part is "to the praise of the glory of his grace" (v6, v12)"

If God fails to accomplish his end result, how does his glory and grace get praised?

 

[Epiphoskei]

We've been over this passage. There is no way you can grammatically make that the Gentiles. The context simply won't allow it. The passage, contextually, is speaking of the Jews. Besides, that passage says they were chosen to be holy and blameless, not saved.

Ephesians is written to "God's holy people in Ephesus."

Paul and his audience are the antecedents to the "we" of the next chapter.

Hence, that passage is about Paul and God's holy people in Ephesus.

I don't see "just the Jews" anywhere in here.