A Song of Ice and Fire
- Thread starter crotchet
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Read it, haven't seen the series. And I've seen an absolutely awesome picture comparing Hermione Granger, Bella (from Twilight, you know, the non-entity Mary Sue) and Daenaerys.
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I read it for the first time in college, which would be almost ten years ago, and I really liked it. I became a big fan, hung out on the message board, chose a picture of Robert Baratheon killing Rhaeger Targaryen for my desktop, and so forth. A few years ago I went back to read it again and found myself enjoying it a lot less. It may simply be the case that at the first reading I'd barely read any other fantasy except the Harry Potter books, while by the second reading I was much more aware of what was out there. Some of the things I noticed were:
The series is jam-packed with gruesome violence and torture, especially in the most recent volumes. There's something distrubing and disgusting going on in nearly every chapter. Maybe the author thinks that this stuff is supposed to be shocking, but to me it fails to even reach that level because it becomes so repetitive. I find I can only read about a man being forced to eat his own severed body parts so many times before it just becomes irritating.
The series is, for the most part, usually predictable. Some people say that Martin is very free with killing off characters, but actually the major characters such as Tyrion, Arya, Jon, Sam, Sansa, Daenerys, and Bran keep escaping from death by far-fetched coincidences and deus ex machinas again and again.
The foreshadowing and symbolism are extremely heavy-handed and virtually impossible to miss.
The number of characters and vying forces is far too large to keep track of. I feel like the amount of effort I'd need to remember who's who would be equivalent to what it would take to learn quantum physics. Some people think it's a good thing that the series is so huge. If you like it that way, help yourself. I personally prefer shorter books where the author achieves an elegant effect with a small cast of characters.
And lastly, the complete lack of any moral vision. The series if full of groups that are utterly barbaric and depraved, such as the Iron Men, the Dothraki, and so forth. Yet Martin's attitude towards those groups leans towards a politically correct, "they're not bad only different" attitude. Nor does he offer a good portrayal of those characters who are fighting to defend civilization; indeed, much of the series suggests the belief that civilization isn't really worth defending.
Just my two cents, of course. And I'm not watching the series.
The series is jam-packed with gruesome violence and torture, especially in the most recent volumes. There's something distrubing and disgusting going on in nearly every chapter. Maybe the author thinks that this stuff is supposed to be shocking, but to me it fails to even reach that level because it becomes so repetitive. I find I can only read about a man being forced to eat his own severed body parts so many times before it just becomes irritating.
The series is, for the most part, usually predictable. Some people say that Martin is very free with killing off characters, but actually the major characters such as Tyrion, Arya, Jon, Sam, Sansa, Daenerys, and Bran keep escaping from death by far-fetched coincidences and deus ex machinas again and again.
The foreshadowing and symbolism are extremely heavy-handed and virtually impossible to miss.
The number of characters and vying forces is far too large to keep track of. I feel like the amount of effort I'd need to remember who's who would be equivalent to what it would take to learn quantum physics. Some people think it's a good thing that the series is so huge. If you like it that way, help yourself. I personally prefer shorter books where the author achieves an elegant effect with a small cast of characters.
And lastly, the complete lack of any moral vision. The series if full of groups that are utterly barbaric and depraved, such as the Iron Men, the Dothraki, and so forth. Yet Martin's attitude towards those groups leans towards a politically correct, "they're not bad only different" attitude. Nor does he offer a good portrayal of those characters who are fighting to defend civilization; indeed, much of the series suggests the belief that civilization isn't really worth defending.
Just my two cents, of course. And I'm not watching the series.
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Martin is certainly a terrific writer. But I, too, am not anymore such a fan of the series as I was initially. I don't even know if the new book has come out (wasn't it supposed to appear last year?).
My reasons are similar to Alex's: The story with its ever increasing number of plot lines is losing its point, and just meandering from one shocking, but soon forgotten incident to the next. Martin is trying so hard to be non-predictable, that he becomes predictable again, but just assuming the outcome one wouldn't normally expect.
It's a bit sad really. Much like Robert Jordan and his Wheel of Time series, Martin is losing himself in his world and its stories, and the overall vision gets lost (although I certainly think Martin to be a better writer than Jordan, with vastly superior characters).
Why do so many fantasy authors nowadays seem to be caught up in a desire to fill as many volumes as possible with a story, never really coming to an end? Is it in the end just commercial interest to keep the fans interested and ensure sales of the new books?
Ok, end rant. The series does have its fine moments. Next to some characters who become more and more caricatures (Cersei) there are those whose deep, sometimes flawed, humanity appears behind the original characterisation (Jaime). And it often does a nice job of showing the often bitter "reality" behind the typical fantasy traditions.
And supposedly There are only two more novels planned? Maybe Martin will finish his series after all.
My reasons are similar to Alex's: The story with its ever increasing number of plot lines is losing its point, and just meandering from one shocking, but soon forgotten incident to the next. Martin is trying so hard to be non-predictable, that he becomes predictable again, but just assuming the outcome one wouldn't normally expect.
It's a bit sad really. Much like Robert Jordan and his Wheel of Time series, Martin is losing himself in his world and its stories, and the overall vision gets lost (although I certainly think Martin to be a better writer than Jordan, with vastly superior characters).
Why do so many fantasy authors nowadays seem to be caught up in a desire to fill as many volumes as possible with a story, never really coming to an end? Is it in the end just commercial interest to keep the fans interested and ensure sales of the new books?
Ok, end rant. The series does have its fine moments. Next to some characters who become more and more caricatures (Cersei) there are those whose deep, sometimes flawed, humanity appears behind the original characterisation (Jaime). And it often does a nice job of showing the often bitter "reality" behind the typical fantasy traditions.
And supposedly There are only two more novels planned? Maybe Martin will finish his series after all.
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J
johnthewitness
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I liked them a lot when I was an atheist. Don't know if I'd care to read them anymore.
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J
johnthewitness
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When I read the 4th one it was pretty dull.
Have no interest whatsoever in the TV show
Have no interest whatsoever in the TV show
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M
Megagog
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I started reading the series about five years ago. I haven't watched more than five episodes, but they're doing an alright job. I'm not really into the series right now, as I was when reading the first three books and couldn't get over the magnitude of the plot.
I'm halfway through Dance.
I'm halfway through Dance.
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