A slightly different angle....

[Ohioprof]

Yes and no. That is most definitely a large part of it.

I was also hoping for some people on both sides of the argument to consider homosexuality from a different angle. To realise that they aren't going to get anywhere by quoting the same three bible verses at each other until the end of time. So they need to look at something else and maybe, just maybe, manage to come to a conclusion through that.

It is as much an experiment as anything; to see if people are able to think outside the box for once. To be open-minded and consider more than a tunnel-vision view of things. To look at the impact their opinions are having on people, and realise that these things are more than just words or philosophies.

I think it is important for people to look and think beyond what is written in the Bible to the real life impact of anti-gay attitudes on human beings. I personally do not believe the Bible is the word of God, and so I don't personally put any stock in what it says.

But there are many folks in these forums who insist, over and over, that the Bible says "homosexuality" is a "sin," and that is the assumption on which these folks seem to base all their arguments. How do those of us who disagree respond to that, or how do we encourage people to look beyond the Bible?

 

[Gwenyfur]

I think (always preface taht there...'cause well..."jarhead" ) That between the media and the churches, people have begun to see homosexuality as more of a social issue than as a group of people.

In that process and mindset, groups become dehumanized, causing those who are "fighting against sin" to forget they are fighting against living, breathing, and feeling human beings.

...just a thought.

 

[Ohioprof]

I think (always preface taht there...'cause well..."jarhead" ) That between the media and the churches, people have begun to see homosexuality as more of a social issue than as a group of people.

In that process and mindset, groups become dehumanized, causing those who are "fighting against sin" to forget they are fighting against living, breathing, and feeling human beings.

...just a thought.

I think that's a good point. When "homosexuality" is presented as an "issue," people can forget that it's about people. For gay people, this is not merely an abstract issue. It's about how we are treated personally, in our daily lives.

 

[Lord_Barthok_Soc]

I think it is important for people to look and think beyond what is written in the Bible to the real life impact of anti-gay attitudes on human beings. I personally do not believe the Bible is the word of God, and so I don't personally put any stock in what it says.

But there are many folks in these forums who insist, over and over, that the Bible says "homosexuality" is a "sin," and that is the assumption on which these folks seem to base all their arguments. How do those of us who disagree respond to that, or how do we encourage people to look beyond the Bible?

I'm not suggesting we look beyond the Bible entirely, per se, but definitely beyond just three verses. To look at the Word, Christianity and homosexuality as a whole, rather than trying to break it down into the small pieces we can use to argue over inconsequentially.

There have been disagreements over these verses, with both appropriate and inappropriate responses on both sides. I'm suggesting you don't respond to it at all in this thread. That's not why I made it.

I challenge you all to find arguments in the bible (or from reputable, researched sources) that might shed more light on whether homosexuality is a sin or not. There's no point in continuing to base arguments on these verses, because it's not working for anyone.

 

[CGL]

I think (always preface taht there...'cause well..."jarhead" ) That between the media and the churches, people have begun to see homosexuality as more of a social issue than as a group of people.

In that process and mindset, groups become dehumanized, causing those who are "fighting against sin" to forget they are fighting against living, breathing, and feeling human beings.

...just a thought.

People have made it into this huge deal.
On both sides. I see it as no different then gluttony, like I said.
But you have people on one side saying it's "who they are" and people on the other side not even treating them like human beings.
A lot of friends of mine are paramedics and they tell me about a lot of, men inparticular, killing themselves over homosexaulity. The reason; half the time it's because of the homophobes the other half is because of the "vigilantes".

All I know, this world/soceity is messed up; gay or straight.

 

[Gwenyfur]

All I know, this world/soceity is messed up; gay or straight.

on that we completely agree

 

[razzelflabben]

Yes and no. That is most definitely a large part of it.

I was also hoping for some people on both sides of the argument to consider homosexuality from a different angle. To realise that they aren't going to get anywhere by quoting the same three bible verses at each other until the end of time. So they need to look at something else and maybe, just maybe, manage to come to a conclusion through that.

It is as much an experiment as anything; to see if people are able to think outside the box for once. To be open-minded and consider more than a tunnel-vision view of things. To look at the impact their opinions are having on people, and realise that these things are more than just words or philosophies.

Again, I agree with you, scared yet? Unfortunately, the church is by and large convinced that their job is to judge and condem rather than to love and care for one another. What did Christ ask, "Do you love me? Feed my sheep". He didn't say condem them or judge them, What is God's command to his people? "Love one another". Ah well, this is your fight and a good one to be sure.

May the Lord grant you wisdom and a heart that seeks only Him. May he grant you strength to endure to the finish and grace to accept all that he has for you.

 

[AetheriusLamia]

If you feel I'm worth quoting, go ahead. I'm honoured.

You sound British. I like the way you write your posts ... ... yeah, I suppose there is a difference between accepting a part of yourself and labeling a part of yourself. Perhaps I myself am not there quite yet. For me to call myself a homosexual is to say that I don't like girls, and I don't know if that's true or not. So ... sorry, I suppose, for the projection.

 

[Maranatha27]

How is the Spirit being quenched within me?

When have I ever mentioned finding something offensive in the Word of God? If you read again what I wrote, it isn't carnal desires that lead me to my conclusion, but God.

I read what you wrote carefully.
I said that the Spirt within you if you are genuinely born again would be quenced because of sin.

1 Thes. 5:19 Quench not the Spirit.
Eph. 4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

If i choose to sin the Spirit within me is quenched, I don't feel the presence of God with me because i choose to sin against him and go in the opposite direction. The Word of God clearly states homosexuality is a detestible sin. I cant comfort you, and I wont. I also despise the unitarians as well so dont feel bad.
2 Tim. 4:3
For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;

Matt. 7:20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
[21] Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
[22] Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
[23] And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

When they were rebuilding Jerusalem in connection with Daniel 70 Week prophecy they had porters at the gate to keep the people sanctified and to be of one mind. The same holds true for the church, I would not let some of you in if I were a porter, because you deny the Word of God.

John 17:14I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
[15] I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.
[16] They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
[17] Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.

 

[Lord_Barthok_Soc]

I cant comfort you, and I wont. I also despise the unitarians as well so dont feel bad.

I don't want comfort, sympathy or pity. So thank you for withholding it.

I'd be wary of despising people, though.

Matt. 7:20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
[21] Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
[22] Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
[23] And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

But don't you see? That was part of my initial point. We have two sides who each claim their teaching is right. Show me the fruits that prove one side right and the other wrong.

When they were rebuilding Jerusalem in connection with Daniel 70 Week prophecy they had porters at the gate to keep the people sanctified and to be of one mind. The same holds true for the church, I would not let some of you in if I were a porter, because you deny the Word of God.

John 17:14I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
[15] I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.
[16] They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
[17] Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.

I am unfamiliar with the rebuilding Jerusalem fact you refer to; reference please? (not that I don't believe you, I'd just like to do some background reading and learn some more )

And what was the point you were making with the John17 quote?

 

[Maranatha27]

Go to the Old Testament, Jacob split and became two nations. Israel is the term used for the 10 tribes (although it is also used for the 12, context is important). Judah is used for the two tribes (Judah and Benjamin). Israel went into captivity(10 tribes) when Assyria conquered them, and Judah went into captivity when Babylon conquered them in 605-586b.c.. The book of Ezra: when Judah returned to build the second temple, Nehemiah: when another remnant return and built up the wall of Jerusalem and the city. Esther: the people that remained in the foreign land and God provision. Kings and Chronicles shows the history of the kings for both nations. The Book of Daniel has the prophecy of the seventy sevens (Chpt.9) which is intimately connected to these books.

I dont mean to be rude, but I take the Word of God very seriously

 

[Maranatha27]

I don't want comfort, sympathy or pity. So thank you for withholding it.

I'd be wary of despising people, though.



But don't you see? That was part of my initial point. We have two sides who each claim their teaching is right. Show me the fruits that prove one side right and the other wrong.



I am unfamiliar with the rebuilding Jerusalem fact you refer to; reference please? (not that I don't believe you, I'd just like to do some background reading and learn some more )

And what was the point you were making with the John17 quote?

And what was the point you were making with the John17 quote?

17] Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth. That was my only point.

But don't you see? That was part of my initial point. We have two sides who each claim their teaching is right. Show me the fruits that prove one side right and the other wrong.

My reference is the Word.


I don't want comfort, sympathy or pity. So thank you for withholding it.
I'd be wary of despising people, though.

I have homosexuals in my family which I love. As for churches that teach contrary to the Word, I have no respect for. The Eccumenical Church movement doesnt have its sucess until the tribulation.