A simple excercise

[crawfish]

You've said this before, and it sounds really good. However, it just doesn't hold up. If you search through Scripture on the word "Truth" you will find that it is a crucial topic and near to God's own heart. He IS Truth, in comparison to the father of lies.

In terms of detailed accounts -- look at the specific details throughout Genesis specifically designed to support the Truth. Look at the genealogies, with the specific ages of people at the time of births, and each death recorded.

Yes, the Hebrew system of logic is different than the Greek/Aristotelean way. We tend to think and reason in linear patterns -- A->B, B->C. They tended to approach a conclusion from different directions, by delineating the evidence. A->C, B->C, D->C. But *truth* did not change.

Problem is, the very definition of "truth" and "lies" has changed. The concept of "fiction" wasn't something that an ancient Hebrew would recognize. If you study oral traditions, you'd see that stories always tend to change slightly over time, to match the cultural climate of the time, so as to be told in a way that could be better understood by the contemporary audience. The meaning is held constant, but the details are changed, because after time those details fail to hold the same meaning over time. Ask anybody involved in Bible translations - they admit that often, they have to choose between translating the literal words and losing the meaning, or translating the meaning and losing the literal words.

One point about Biblical ages: the Bible states that Joseph lived to be 110 years old. Through archeology, we've found dozens of cases where honored Egyptians were reported to live 110 years; in effect, the meaning of that age was saying "this was an ideal Egyptian citizen". Is it simply a coincidence that Joseph lived to that exact age? Did God know that we'd find the actual age important and kill him exactly at that age? Or was it used for its symbolic value over reporting the age of his actual death?

 

[Nooj]

Genesis first of all affirms the existance of a creator God, but unlike any other deity, God has been there from the beginning. In a few short lines, Genesis introduces the reader to the attribute that many people would consider to be his most important: Monotheism.

For hundreds of years, Genesis has been read as a historical account. With the increase of scientific knowledge, Genesis takes on a new and even more potent role. Less as a scientific advisor and more as a theological treatise. The Bible means different things to different people in different times.

 

[Assyrian]

God creates, foreshadows rest,
Man lead by desire,
falls, and needs the promised seed.

Haiku

 

[shernren]

Aren't haikus 5-7-5, not 7-5-7?

 

[Assyrian]

Aaaaaaggggh!

 

[Assyrian]

God makes all and rests
we could join, but choose desire,
eat, fall, and blame snake.

 

[KerrMetric]

Lord, wise creator of heavens,
but our temptations have led us astray,
succumbing to the serpents offer

 

[KerrMetric]

God makes all and rests
we could join, but choose desire,
eat, fall, and blame snake.

Do a word count. You have 6 in the middle.

 

[Assyrian]

dee-sire is 2 syllables

 

[KerrMetric]

CRAP - I forgot it was a syllable count.

 

[Assyrian]

But a great short poem anyway

 

[shernren]

Good God made good world,
We declined and went our way
Now all is astray.

 

[USincognito]

Sprechen heilege Gott
thou shalt sin not
but we no could do
so the world is poo.

 

[shernren]

It is no simple exercise,
to briefly Genesis summarise.

 

[metherion]

God made us.

We eschewed God.

World now stinks.

Metherion

 

[Macrina]

Try to sum up in as short a post as you can, what is Gensis 1-4 about? What is its message from God to us?

For me, when I was a child, my instant response would have been that it was about "how" God created the Earth and life. I wouldn't say that now. I would say it shows that God is the Creator of all and forshadows the story of Christ's redemtion. To just quickly sum it up.

Keeping in mind that I accept the theory of evolution, I still don't see how doing so changes the main points of Gensis for me as a Christian.

Great thread, Pats. I'm usually a lurker in this forum, since I am not nearly as well-read on scientific issues as many of the posters here, but this is one I can join in on.

I agree that Genesis 1-11 should be taken as a unit. In fact, I would argue that the entire Bible could justifiably be broken up into "Genesis 1-11" and "everything else." Those first chapters describe the situation of fallen humanity: Created good and placed within a blessed creation, humankind fell into sin. Thus began a cycle of human sin followed by divine grace -- yes, sometimes divine punishment, but never without the element of grace. The Lord had every right to just smite us all and be done with it, so it's rather remarkable that he chose to go to the great lengths he has just to retrieve us. Anyway, Genesis 1-11 illustrate the fallen condition of humanity and the holy and gracious nature of the Lord. Genesis 12 begins the specific saga of how God would bring ultimate salvation into the world; the promise that the world would be blessed through Abraham's offspring is fulfilled in the person of Jesus Christ -- therefore, chapter 12 begins a new movement in the symphony of scripture.

I think the matter of HOW God created the world is not as important as THAT he created the world, and what these early chapters have to teach us about the nature of God and the nature of humanity. While the questions of "how" are worthwhile, there are other elements of origins theology that are worth discussing.

 

[crawfish]

"I did it."

 

[Willtor]

Great posts, all! I ran out of rep power pretty quickly.

---

As a computer guy, let me express one core matter as I see it:

10 God intends fellowship with man,
20 man falls,
30 God preserves a man for Himself,
40 GOTO 10.

Actually, this is 1-11, but since Pats says this is okay I'm not going to change it. Chapters 1 and 2 are more, I think, for identifying God and especially in distinguishing Him from neighboring gods. Lots of profound stuff.

 

[Pats]

Thanks everybody. I especially enjoyed the short poems and haikus.

 

[MrSnow]

I like to start with the "big picture". And the "big picture" is Christ.

Leading up to Christ is the entire OT, most of which is how God reveals Himself to Israel under the Mosaic covenant.

Genesis gives us the story of how Israel the nation came to be, and ultimately where Christ came from.

Genesis is the beginning of redemption history, of the story of the relationship between God and man.

Gen 1 starts with God. It tells of the creation of the earth in order to show where man came from. It shows where man came from to show where sin came from. It shows where sin came from to show why Christ had to come. It shows the geneologies to show where the family that brought Israel came from. It shows where Israel came from to show where Christ came from.