A serious request for information regarding gay relationships of any sort

[stray bullet]

People will 'convert' to homosexuality then?


No.

The Alfred Kinsey study showed that sexuality wasn't black and white. People in the gray area can be affected.

 

[morningstar2651]

And no, merely saying its wrong doesnt count. Please show where the bible asks for discrimination to be promoted.

Unfortunately, the bible does discriminate against homosexuality.

http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/gay/long.htm

http://www.religioustolerance.org/hom_bibl.htm

Leviticus 20:13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

 

[Volos]

I haven't seen one yet... and if a church did advocate violence, it wouldn't be Christian.

If you wish to see this…try being an openly gay man, then you can see plenaty of Christians and Christain churches advocating hate and violence.

 

[Maynard Keenan]

"Leviticus 20:13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them."


Yes but Jesus clearly stated that the old law didn't apply. Didn't mean the moral laws dont, just the legal parts. When someone was to be stoned to death per OT Law, he said "let he who has not sinned cast the first stone." He met the woman with compassion, and told her to sin no more. That is the example we should follow but the example too few Christians really do.

 

[aeroz19]

We keep citing the reasons, and you (rhetorical) only respond with, "No, we don't care what you say, only our feelings matter in this."

It struck me earlier this evening, as I was shredding left over turkey for soup, that the underlying sin to the whole gay marriage movement is covetousness.

As I've pointed out elsewhere, there's nothing wrong with looking at somebody else's car and saying, "I want a car of my own just like that one." What is wrong is to say, "I want that car."

This is what the gay marriage advocates are doing. They don't really care about rights and tax breaks and the like; they've been offered the possibility of civil unions and they turn it down.

I guess the real problem with the colored folks was covetousness. They wanted what the white folks had, and they accepted nothing less.

Reason rejected.

They want marriage because they want 200+ million people to deny in their hearts and minds what they know to be true and to say homosexual unions are on an equal par with the male-female relationship of marriage.

They are on equal par with hetero relationships. Heterosexuals are born that way, so are gays. I know this in my heart and mind.

The gay marriage advocates covet marriage. They will not be satisfied until they steal it from those to whom it rightfully belongs.

The black people coveted civil rights. They were not satisfied until they stole it from those to whom it rightfully belonged.

See how your reasoning so easily topples over? Maybe you shouldn't think, but instead just blindly follow your Bible in the most strictly literal sense.

Once again, none of the snowflakes wants to claim responisbility. Believe me, if gay marriage was the only issue at stake here, it would be harmless.

But it's not the only issue, it's just one of many fronts where the cultural war is being fought.

You have bought into the lies and propaganda from the religious right. The "homosexual agenda" is a myth.

In Holland doctors are deciding who should live and who should die. What does that do with gay marriage? Well, the same mindset that says we human beings can "reason" our way to morality re marriage also says we can "reason" our way to morality re who lives and who dies.

I guess reasoning is evil. We should just close our minds and eyes to the world and just stick to the Bible.

Gay marriage is just a skirmish is a much wider war.

Not really.

P.S. Assuming you are a person of honor, now that I've shown you the harm, please send the $100 to any charity that feeds poor people.

You have not met the requirements.

 

[morningstar2651]

"Leviticus 20:13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them."


Yes but Jesus clearly stated that the old law didn't apply. Didn't mean the moral laws dont, just the legal parts. When someone was to be stoned to death per OT Law, he said "let he who has not sinned cast the first stone." He met the woman with compassion, and told her to sin no more. That is the example we should follow but the example too few Christians really do.

Unfortunately it's in the new testament as well. Romans, chapter 1.

Even when I was a Christian, I never much liked Paul.

 

[dr.p]

Are we going to see you walk this talk by not voting for amendments to the consitution regarding marriage, or bills that limit legal power/ tax benefits for same-sex couples?

Like I said, your behavior -- so long as it doesn't affect me or society adversely in a way like murder -- is 100% your business... and as long as I don't have to hear about it all the time.......... which I do if I watch TV, but I don't watch TV much... so whatever.

 

[dr.p]

The bible also asks you not to eat shellfish. However, is this behavior being pressed in society as much as homosexuality? Of course not.

Shellfish.... and pig meat... I don't eat shellfish, but I do eat bacon. But Jesus said it's not what goes into a man that defiles him, but what comes out... still, I try to eat very little bacon, just for health reasons. BUT, if I am convicted that eating bacon is wrong, then I'll do my best never to eat bacon again.

The problem here is, you are trying to restrict equal rights to a group of people simply because you are burdened in explaining to your child that homosexuality is wrong. A very light argument against same-sex marriage.

Someone else -- Volos, I think -- quoted that exact same paragraph, and had pretty much the same reply. I've already said a number of times that I'm not trying to restrict anyone's rights. I underlined "feel" in the first sentence there and included the "but if I trust God, it's not a concern" part to say, maybe too subtly, that I'm not interested in stamping out anyone's rights.

Right, because in your eyes they need to hear god just like you, but don't deserve the same rights as you. Speaking of the bible, and what it teaches, please show some verses in which the bible asks you to advocate discrimination against homosexuals. And no, merely saying its wrong doesnt count. Please show where the bible asks for discrimination to be promoted.

1. They deserve the same rights as me... they're human... so that saying goes for everyone.

2. I didn't really think I was discriminating... except where I said I wouldn't go to a church with a homosexual preacher... but there's a really good reason for that:

I don't need anyone else to hear God just the way I do. In fact, what goes on between you and God is between you and God... I'm not in that loop, and don't really want to be... unless you've got praise and good news to share

BUT, God's word doesn't change. It says that all the way through the Bible. It's evident. And that fact will be known to everyone some day. Since God's word doesn't change and I take the Bible to be God's word, that means that I can't say "well, it says that, but," and accept as good things which God says are bad. Makes sense, right?

So, if I go to a church where the rules about who can minister are that lax, I'm letting slide the meaning. And ANY preacher that's involved heavily in and accepts as right something that the Bible says is wrong should not be preaching. If a preacher liked to drink heavily all the time and said it was okay, or did drugs, or talk down to people, or cursed people; those would all be disqualifying factors. I'm not saying a preacher has to be perfect; just that they have to be mature enough and be walking with God in order to lead a congregation and teach God's word correctly.

Is there some dispute about that I should know about? I thought that's how religious congregations worked. You take the wisest and most commited to/in-line with the religion and you give them the pulpit.

 

[dr.p]

If you wish to see this…try being an openly gay man, then you can see plenaty of Christians and Christain churches advocating hate and violence.

I think in that respect, we've just got different eyes. Though if I ever heard a preacher say "lock up" or "berate" or "curse" or "hate all the gay people," I'd have a lot of trouble with that.

 

[morningstar2651]

I think in that respect, we've just got different eyes. Though if I ever heard a preacher say "lock up" or "berate" or "curse" or "hate all the gay people," I'd have a lot of trouble with that.

I have heard that, and do have a lot of trouble with it.

 

[Maynard Keenan]

Unfortunately it's in the new testament as well. Romans, chapter 1.

Even when I was a Christian, I never much liked Paul.

I wasn't making the case that the moral law didn't remain. Paul doesnt say kill gay people. The NT says dont kill "sinners" welcome them. Doesnt mean sin isnt still sin.

 

[dr.p]

I have heard that, and do have a lot of trouble with it.

I am truly sorry you've heard a preacher teaching things like that. That's such a shame. Mind if I ask what denomination and locale it was? No need for specific church.

 

[Nathan David]

No one is asking for acceptance, they are asking for equality.

I think to a certain extent they are asking for acceptance, in the form of legal recognition. They are not asking for any law requiring people to be friends with gay people or let them into their church of course, but they are still asking for legal recognition of their love relationships.

And I am happy to give it to them.

 

[morningstar2651]

I am truly sorry you've heard a preacher teaching things like that. That's such a shame. Mind if I ask what denomination and locale it was? No need for specific church.

[size=-1]Reverend [/size]Fred [size=-1]Waldron [/size]Phelps Sr.

 

[cabbitgrrrl]

[size=-1]Reverend [/size]Fred [size=-1]Waldron [/size]Phelps Sr.

the most evil man alive

 

[cabbitgrrrl]

Unfortunately it's in the new testament as well. Romans, chapter 1.

Even when I was a Christian, I never much liked Paul.

Yea, the world would be so much better in my opinion if one of the other early christian denominations had taken the stand rather than Paul's group.

 

[cabbitgrrrl]

I wasn't making the case that the moral law didn't remain. Paul doesnt say kill gay people. The NT says dont kill "sinners" welcome them. Doesnt mean sin isnt still sin.

I never liked the whole saying that it is sin, because I believe it is something that cannot be helped. By saying it is sin, it opens doors to bigotry and hatred, which is why there is so much bigotry and hatred against gay, lesbian and transgendered people.